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Author Topic: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)  (Read 2976 times)

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Offline kirky

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #30 on: January 05, 2020, 11:54:11 AM »
Thanks for the links Richard. Ive found it now. Pretty much hidden in the trees these days. Found the viaduct on street view though - you can beat a good viaduct.
Cheers
Northallerton will make its next public appearance at the LINCOLN MODEL RAILWAY CLUB ANNUAL EXHIBITION Feb 29th -1st Mar 2020



Layout: Northallerton: http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=1671.msg16930#msg16930

www.northallertonngauge.co.uk

Cleveland Model Railway club website: www.clevelandmrc.club

Offline belstone

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #31 on: January 05, 2020, 12:57:12 PM »
All except the V2 are DCC-ready.
Richard
Does that mean?..... no, surely you arent going DCC.... :D

I think so.  Several reasons:

1.  Directional control:  having the direction switch relate to the loco rather than the layout is a real pain for a branch terminus where engines can arrive facing either way round.  For a main line, especially the "dogbone" design I am using here, it's an advantage.  Chimney-first is always forward.  DCC also solves some electrical problems with operating banking locos on Up goods trains (yes, I will be trying to recreate this aspect of Waverley operations).

2. I'm thinking I might want carriage lighting, in line with my plan to come up with "simulated moonlight" layout lighting so I can run a 24 hour train sequence. Working tail lights would also be nice, perhaps.

3.  I'm taking a gamble on the quality of DCC steam sound improving over the next few years.  At the moment it is pretty dire (in my humble opinion) but it was those Peter Handford recordings of V2s slogging up the long climb to Whitrope that drew me to the Waverley in the first place.  I want sound at some point.  I have thought about using underboard speakers and faders, but dismissed that as too complicated to operate.

4. DCC is rapidly becoming the norm for train control in N gauge.  I'm not the only person out there modelling this line, and it would be nice to be able to run other people's locos on Stobs.

Richard

Offline belstone

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #32 on: January 05, 2020, 01:03:03 PM »

Hi Richard

It is all looking really good so far. As one familiar with station and surroundings from my various books on the Waverley Route, I am able to mentally fill in the blanks, and visualise the completed station, it really does have the right feel proportionately, and I can't wait to see some more progress.

You may be interested to know that DCC of the V2 can be done very simply by stripping out motor and internals including the idler gear from the loco and adding a B1 tender drive with DCC socket, no wiring needed, it is almost like it was designed for it. It benefits from the much stronger pulling power of the tender drive and is all totally reversible.

Regards

Roy

I thought you'd like this layout Roy.  Loco haulage power is one of the things that is bothering me.  The V2 is notoriously feeble.  I was thinking of using a Farish B1 tender drive in a V2 but keeping the loco motorised as well, and buying a Union Mills tender drive unit to power the B1.  I need to test the Pacifics and see what they will pull: there should be scope to get a bit more weight into them.

Richard


Offline kirky

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2020, 01:14:15 PM »
All very interesting of course Richard.
As a long time user of DCC I completely concur with your reasoning.
I wonder what system you'll go for - Merg CBus/DCC? Or as an alternatively cheap system DCC++ built on an arduino is cool but you need to use a computer and probably a phone as a controller.
Cheers
Northallerton will make its next public appearance at the LINCOLN MODEL RAILWAY CLUB ANNUAL EXHIBITION Feb 29th -1st Mar 2020



Layout: Northallerton: http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=1671.msg16930#msg16930

www.northallertonngauge.co.uk

Cleveland Model Railway club website: www.clevelandmrc.club

Offline belstone

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2020, 07:57:27 PM »
I seem to have bits of modelling going on all over the place at the moment.  Here's today's unfinished project - the viaduct which sits right in the middle of the scenic area.



As mentioned above the viaduct is slightly curved: the entire visible section of the layout is on a continuous 15 foot radius curve. Without the combination of Templot and DraftSight (free 2D CAD software) I would have really struggled to get the dimensions right: as it is I have ended up with two viaduct sides, one 4mm longer than the other.  This were drawn onto mounting board and the arches cut out with a scalpel.  I had a frantic hunt round the house for something exactly 64mm diameter to mark out the arches: in the end I used a jar containing a scented candle, so my viaduct smells faintly of lavender.  I used Templot to print out the appropriate bit of track to make a template for the base: this is a card / balsa laminate, purely because I didn't have one sheet of balsa big enough to cut it in one piece so I ended up gluing bits of balsa together and added the card for a bit of strength.

The whole thing is designed to work exactly the opposite way from a real viaduct: it will hang from the underside of the 9mm ply trackbed and will carry no weight at all.  I will be using a variety of embossed Plastikard to clad the basic card / balsa structure: the upper section is large dressed stone blocks, the piers are smaller irregular stone and at the moment I have no idea what the underside of the arches is made of.

I have cheated on the dimensions a bit due to space limitations: it is slightly shorter than scale and not quite as tall.  The proportions should not be too far off though.  Anyway the area is now so overgrown with trees that it is hard to see what the viaduct looks like, so I doubt anyone will pull me up on it.

I'd forgotten how much fun it is starting a new layout.  So much to think about.  @kirky : no idea what kind of DCC control I will use yet, I need to look into it.  The main requirement is a rotary knob for speed control rather than flappy paddles or buttons.  It's a model railway, not a Playstation.

Richard

Offline kirky

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2020, 09:06:42 PM »
@belstone
I thought you might say you want a knob on your controller. Then definitely for you is the Merg CBUS/DCC controller. You donít of course have to use CBUS, you can just use the dcc controller part of it. The handset can be operated with one (left) hand. Iíve built the controller and a couple of handsets. Itís a nice project. Cost of controller and handset is about 70 quid. You might need a booster since you are using sound. Add another thirty quid. Youíll enjoy the build. All of course IMHO.
Cheers
Northallerton will make its next public appearance at the LINCOLN MODEL RAILWAY CLUB ANNUAL EXHIBITION Feb 29th -1st Mar 2020



Layout: Northallerton: http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=1671.msg16930#msg16930

www.northallertonngauge.co.uk

Cleveland Model Railway club website: www.clevelandmrc.club

Offline belstone

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2020, 12:19:10 PM »
A little bit of progress on the most important structure for the "big layout":





Barns Viaduct is coming along steadily.  Construction is basically embossed Plastikard overlays on a mounting card inner structure.  The real viaduct had the upper structure made of large, regularly shaped stone blocks sitting on whinstone rubble piers.  The tricky bit is the irregular stone around the edge of the arches:  I have filled this area with DAS modelling clay and will scribe the stones individually once the clay has set.

I have meanwhile found a few more good photos from which I can see I have made the arches slightly too narrow and the piers too wide.  I could start again, but I don't think the proportions on my viaduct look wrong:  it's only when I compare it with photos of the real thing that I can see where I have gone wrong.

Elsewhere I have been plugging away at baseboard construction.  I now have the ply beams assembled for the two main boards but ran into problems with the ends.  I was going to use 12mm ply and pattern makers dowels for alignment, but the ply isn't flat and rigid enough and my attempts to install the dowels just reminded me that I can't do accurate woodworking.  So I've had a rethink and now have a revised design to try.  Hopefully next weekend I will get the two main boards assembled and able to be joined together.

I went to the Chiltern MRC show at Stevenage yesterday and was much inspired by "Little Salkeld" which is very similar to Stobs in its whole approach to N gauge modelling.  It is a beautiful layout and if I can get half way to that quality I will be a happy man.

Back to work now and I'll see if I can get the signalbox glazed while the DAS clay is drying on the viaduct.

Richard

P.S. @kirky  congratulations for appearing in RM with some of the Northallerton crew.  I had a long chat yesterday with a chap who was exhibiting a 2mm FS layout and was using the MERG DCC controller.  He liked it a lot, and the slow speed control was impressive.

Offline kirky

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2020, 01:39:37 PM »
@belstone
Ive used something like this in the past https://www.stationroadbaseboards.co.uk/cart_dowels.htm - the bullet type dowels that is, not the pattern makes ones. Fitting is fairly straight forward oif I remeber correctly. Fit the female parts and then clamp the two ends together, drill straight through the female ends with a pilot drill into the male board (we used parts with small holes in the end of the female bit so a pilot hole can be drilled.. Unclamp and use the pilot hole as the guide for fitting the male part. Use a  spare female bit to hammer home the male part. Maybe use a boit of pva to secure.

Yep, the cbus system is undoubtedly good - did you get to have a paly with that? Its certainly a comprehensive system for under a £100 - ypou just have to build it!

Cheers
Kirky
Northallerton will make its next public appearance at the LINCOLN MODEL RAILWAY CLUB ANNUAL EXHIBITION Feb 29th -1st Mar 2020



Layout: Northallerton: http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=1671.msg16930#msg16930

www.northallertonngauge.co.uk

Cleveland Model Railway club website: www.clevelandmrc.club

Offline belstone

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2020, 01:49:54 PM »
@belstone
Ive used something like this in the past https://www.stationroadbaseboards.co.uk/cart_dowels.htm - the bullet type dowels that is, not the pattern makes ones. Fitting is fairly straight forward oif I remeber correctly. Fit the female parts and then clamp the two ends together, drill straight through the female ends with a pilot drill into the male board (we used parts with small holes in the end of the female bit so a pilot hole can be drilled.. Unclamp and use the pilot hole as the guide for fitting the male part. Use a  spare female bit to hammer home the male part. Maybe use a boit of pva to secure.

Yep, the cbus system is undoubtedly good - did you get to have a paly with that? Its certainly a comprehensive system for under a £100 - you just have to build it!

Cheers
Kirky

I've seen those dowels but I have something more industrial in mind.  I have large quantities of shelf supports, right angled steel with 8mm holes at regular (and very accurate) intervals.  The plan is to weld two bolts to one piece, which will be glued and screwed to the back of the end board.  A plain piece of angle will then be attached to the corresponding end, providing for alignment and clamping (via wing nuts) and also stiffening up the wooden ends.  It is similar to the system I used for Longfram, which has worked very well.  I think I was trying to be too clever with the pattern makers dowels.

I didn't get the chance to actually try the controller but it looks like it will do everything I want.

Richard

Offline kirky

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2020, 01:59:51 PM »
I've seen those dowels but I have something more industrial in mind.  I have large quantities of shelf supports, right angled steel with 8mm holes at regular (and very accurate) intervals.  The plan is to weld two bolts to one piece, which will be glued and screwed to the back of the end board.  A plain piece of angle will then be attached to the corresponding end, providing for alignment and clamping (via wing nuts) and also stiffening up the wooden ends.  It is similar to the system I used for Longfram, which has worked very well.  I think I was trying to be too clever with the pattern makers dowels.

I didn't get the chance to actually try the controller but it looks like it will do everything I want.

Richard
Ah yes, the under base board connection system, Im sure that will be more than adequate.

You should give a Merg handset a go Richard. Its not to everyones' taste, but I like the left thumb controller, meanimng your right hand is free to do whatever. Its a clever ergonomic design. I think the slow control is probably as much to do with the way the decoder is set up.
I like the viaduct bytheway - I really love bridges on layouts.
cheers
Northallerton will make its next public appearance at the LINCOLN MODEL RAILWAY CLUB ANNUAL EXHIBITION Feb 29th -1st Mar 2020



Layout: Northallerton: http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=1671.msg16930#msg16930

www.northallertonngauge.co.uk

Cleveland Model Railway club website: www.clevelandmrc.club

Offline belstone

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #40 on: January 15, 2020, 10:51:26 PM »
Running night at the club, so I took along my small collection of Waverley Route locos for some haulage tests.  Maximum train lengths on this layout will be 9 coaches / 35 wagons and some fairly tight curves (down to 12") in the storage loops.  The club has a layout with a long oval and tight curves, so I assembled a 10 coach train (Farish Mk1s and Dapol Gresleys) and tried various locos.

Dapol A3 - fine, no problems.

Farish V2 - slipped to a standstill but I was expecting that. This model is not known for its pulling power. I'm looking at adding tender drive (using a Farish B1 tender) and keeping the loco drive as well, which should give plenty of grunt if it works.

Farish A2 - non runner, dead short in the tender drive somewhere.

Farish A1 - loose screws in the valve gear, so I swapped the tender for the A2 one. Wouldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding, even the V2 did better.  I haven't yet had a look to see if there is a fault in the tender drive. I bought this one second hand and possibly the traction tyres have oil on them.

Farish N class (proposed chassis donor for a K3) - awesome.  Handled 10 coaches with ease which I absolutely was not expecting.  For a model which weighs so little it really is quite remarkably sure-footed.

And finally, my recently revived 1967-made Minitrix Class 27 - best performance of all.  Would probably handle 20 coaches.  Diesels work so much better than steam in N gauge, even diesels that are older than me.

Richard

Offline chrispearce

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #41 on: January 15, 2020, 11:17:10 PM »
I was reading the other night about the wonderfully-named 'Bullfrog Snot'.  :goggleeyes: It does improve traction on weedy locos I hear. Ever tried it?
Some situations in life are like dairy cows. When you see 'em you just gotta milk 'em.

Online Bealman

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #42 on: January 16, 2020, 12:03:38 AM »
I've been aware of it for a long while. Never used it, but I've read conflicting reports.

I'm probably going too far bundling it in with stuff like WD-40, but I'm always wary of products like these.
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

Offline chrispearce

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #43 on: January 16, 2020, 12:13:45 AM »
From what I've read if applied carefully to a spinning wheel it can replace lost/worn traction tyres really well. I have also heard it greatly improves traction and can 'breathe new life' into a lack-lustre loco. I haven't used it myself but do have some locos which new traction tyres and was considering getting some.

I'll probably buy it online rather than take a wander to the village pond with some pepper and a plastic bag.  :sick2:
Some situations in life are like dairy cows. When you see 'em you just gotta milk 'em.

Offline Paddy

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #44 on: January 16, 2020, 12:43:36 PM »
Shame modern manufacturers cannot get the haulage qualities that Minitrix achieved 40+ years ago...

Kind regards

Paddy
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