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Author Topic: GEM Fowler 2-6-4 Tank 4P Kit  (Read 497 times)

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Offline Fredastaire

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GEM Fowler 2-6-4 Tank 4P Kit
« on: December 29, 2018, 02:27:55 PM »
Gentlemen, ive recently bought via Ebay an ancient GEM whitemetal kit of the Fowler 2-6-4 tank engine to fit a Farish Black 5 Chassis. Equally I have an ancient specimen chassis that ive rebuilt to 5 pole and also reprofiled the wheels as they were very earliest pizza cutter large diameter.
The kit came with the main body already glued together in a fair manner which should clean up with a bit of work to remove surplus unknown glue.
Ive fitted my chassis and taken the assembly to trial on our club track only to realise that the buffers are dramatically high up, because the whole body is riding high. Ive already had to trim away the tank underside lip to clear the motion eccentric 'return crank'.

First question - do any of you have this as a running GEM kit? did you build it? have you got around the 'too high' fitting.
I would appreciate to see photos of the finished kit.
Second - as ive also the GEM 7F Tender Loco all boxed up, does anybody have a list of what was the GEM range from all those years back?
Kind regards to all

« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 11:37:35 AM by Fredastaire »

Online Dr Al

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Re: GEM Fowler 2-6-4 Tank 4T Kit started
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2018, 05:06:07 PM »
High riding is common on old kits - I've built this before but don't recall it sitting high. Usually they can be cut down to a point, but it depends on the internal clearance of the motor frame and the underside of the body. Often you need to grind out areas if you want bodies to sit lower.

I have two more to do - one on Farish 1809 chassis, but the one I'll keep is on a new tool Farish 3MT chassis which is far better with proper spoked wheels. This sits right as the whole attachment of the kit body had to be changed to accommodate this chassis - it's on my workbench thread somewhere, but still needs finished.

Cheers,
Alan

Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.” – Dr. Carl Sagan

Offline Fredastaire

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Re: GEM Fowler 2-6-4 Tank 4T Kit started
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2018, 06:51:28 PM »
Thanks Alan for your reply, my Beyer Garrat also runs high, i wonder years ago if they had the same parenthood as it seems that GEM also retailed the Garratt for some time. I ran the Garrat last night at our club, we pooled resources for wagons as i dont have enough.
Back to the Fowler, may i cast your mind back and ask if you can remember what you did for the rear bogie? You are supposed to chop the chassis short and redrill the Farish draw bar at 11mm centres; thats not possible as the hole would be half in fresh air and the bogie is too long as the rear wheels are half under the rear buffer beam.
Im wondering about cutting and solder scarfing  the draw bar and they cutting a new slot for the bogie rear axle - even then theres no coupling!
Comments appreciated.

Online Dr Al

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Re: GEM Fowler 2-6-4 Tank 4T Kit started
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2018, 07:02:25 PM »
Back to the Fowler, may i cast your mind back and ask if you can remember what you did for the rear bogie?

I used a Farish BR standard tank rear bogie, unmodified.

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.” – Dr. Carl Sagan

Offline Fredastaire

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Re: GEM Fowler 2-6-4 Tank 4T Kit started
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2018, 11:09:26 PM »
Thank you Alan for the reply, ive already  got my Standard 4 out and was wondering. I was hoping to build this kit from my bits box but its not straightforward. Did you also use the standard 4 stepped keep plate and cut a square chunk off the chassis block? Ill gsve to do a rethink on Tuesday, a friend needs parts from Bob so i might as well add a rear bogie moulding.......
Kind regards Fred

Offline Fredastaire

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Re: GEM Fowler 2-6-4 Tank 4P Kit
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2019, 12:13:05 PM »
Thought i would add a progress photo, ive raided the bits box and made both bogies, rera bogie is a Farish leading black 5 bogie with new slots cut for axles, the wheelsets are Bachmann Farish wagon wheels, ive pulled the wheels off to allow grinding the pin points off and then had to add tiny plastic washers to prevent sideplay shorting out the track to the bogie, coupling is standard farish fitted to a vertical slot and keyed to the old axle slot so it cannot pull out. a tender tie plate has been cranked and soldered and a new slot cut in the chassis main casting. front bogie is again Farish Black five, cut short, the tie bar is rivetted hard, Wagon wheelset fitted and new keep plate glued on.

The kit body is failing at some of the glued joints, it came assembled, I guess this dates from 25 years back, the glue is a brittle clear stuff with a hint of red tint, whilst the roof and rear spectacles have fallen off im reluctant to attempt breaking it all apart. I'm thinking of scraping the internal joints clean and adding fillets of epoxy.

Any comments or photos of your versons would be appreciated
PS I'm now looking for the Stanier 2-6-4T whitemetal kit to build next for which I need to find a non runner standard 4 farish tank. (not the ones off ebay - ive seen them)


Offline Fredastaire

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Re: GEM Fowler 2-6-4 Tank 4P Kit
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2019, 09:33:50 AM »
Test run at the club weds night, proves the scratchbuilt bogies work. Pickups need replacement as they are antique Poole first design with short fingers and are erratic on contact. Late night I soldered the steps in place, its now ready for first primer. Im going to finish it as one my Grandad drove from Derby in 1952, can anybody confirm if its plain unlined black at that time? numbered 2340 date 5th January 1952 Derby to Melton Mowbray.

« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 09:37:43 AM by Fredastaire »

Online Dr Al

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Re: GEM Fowler 2-6-4 Tank 4P Kit
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2019, 03:15:28 PM »
Nice job Fred - oh for the time to finish mine (you're inspiring me to dig it out!).

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.” – Dr. Carl Sagan

Offline Fredastaire

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Re: GEM Fowler 2-6-4 Tank 4P Kit
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2019, 04:01:25 PM »
Thanks Alan for your comment.
The chassis has been a long puzzle, I started out with a chassis out of my bits box, i'm guessing its 1970's with brass mainwheel. I changed the duff armature 3 pole armature for a 5 pole but it would only run for 5 minutes before slowing down and smelling hot with visible sparks from the comm. stripped and recleaned twice looking for faults - just a mucky commutator. at the third time I tried re-soldering the comm connections just in case there was a dry joint - same fault. Puzzled even more I checked with meter the windings resistance - all same. the comm was blocked again inbetween the segments.
Last go was to put brand new brushes in from BR Lines - job done perfect running.
Ive the conclusion that historically its been copiously oiled and its softened the carbon brushes!
Have you any comments about keeping the brass maingear? its only ever going to run a half hour every now and again at the club...

Now to start the GEM 7f........................just learning low temperature soldering........

Online Dr Al

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Re: GEM Fowler 2-6-4 Tank 4P Kit
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2019, 06:03:38 PM »
Thanks Alan for your comment.
The chassis has been a long puzzle, I started out with a chassis out of my bits box, i'm guessing its 1970's with brass mainwheel. I changed the duff armature 3 pole armature for a 5 pole but it would only run for 5 minutes before slowing down and smelling hot with visible sparks from the comm. stripped and recleaned twice looking for faults - just a mucky commutator. at the third time I tried re-soldering the comm connections just in case there was a dry joint - same fault. Puzzled even more I checked with meter the windings resistance - all same. the comm was blocked again inbetween the segments.
Last go was to put brand new brushes in from BR Lines - job done perfect running.
Ive the conclusion that historically its been copiously oiled and its softened the carbon brushes!
Have you any comments about keeping the brass maingear? its only ever going to run a half hour every now and again at the club...

If it isn't broke don't fix it - there is the chance of the worm wearing in time, but they are relatively easy to change out (doesn't need an armature change). Keep the gear very lightly lubricated and that will help, and don't pull hideous length trains with it, and it'll be fine for the foreseeable future.

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.” – Dr. Carl Sagan

 

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