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Author Topic: High Speed and fencing  (Read 577 times)

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Offline Globibahn

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High Speed and fencing
« on: November 25, 2018, 09:41:41 AM »
Has anyone noticed that in the UK railways (as far as I have seen) are always firmly fenced off, however Swiss railways (both main lines and branch lines) are rarely fenced off except in densely urban areas.

I've just watched a video of a 300 km/h stretch of German ICE track through the countryside that doesn't appear fenced off either!

I wonder what led to this differing policy?
« Last Edit: November 25, 2018, 09:42:54 AM by Globi »

Offline exmouthcraig

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Re: High Speed and fencing
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2018, 09:56:53 AM »
Presumably the Swiss are a much better behaved bunch then the UK.

Suicide, debris left on tracks, theft of cabling, flytipping all incidents that still happen on our network and cause hours and hours of delays resolving the problems anything like this creates.

Our network is beyond breaking point so a 5min delay causes hours and hours across the network.

Interestingly reading about the 50's approach where presumably a 5bar post and rail fence existed a la The Railway Children if any of the aforementioned happened the attitude was 'Keep the trains running' so everything including deaths was dealt with promptly rather then shut the network for 5 days.

Just the world we live in now me thinks

Offline Globibahn

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Re: High Speed and fencing
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2018, 10:06:42 AM »
Presumably the Swiss are a much better behaved bunch then the UK.


It's true, hadn't thought of that! Germans are better behaved too, the German companies who installed those free bikes in Leeds and Manchaster (I think) had to remove them again because they couldn't believe the amount of vandalism and disrespect for free community assets.

It's not exclusively the case however, as you do of course also see some vandalism in Germany and Switzerland. It seems to be quite popular now to spray paint on ICE trains. I like graffiti (provided it's on a derelict building) but on an ICE this is sacrilige!

Offline swisstrains

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Re: High Speed and fencing
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2018, 10:29:18 AM »
I think it stems from the early days of railways when trains were deemed to be fire breathing monsters from which the public needed to be protected. In the UK it has always been the responsibility of the railway company to keep people and animals off its tracks initially to prevent accidents but now for many other reasons as "exmouthcraig" has pointed out.
In many other places around the World railways are treated just like roads and people are expected to treat them with respect without the need for fences. If a farmer keeps animals then it is their responsibility to keep them off the tracks and not the railway company hence the many different types of fences that you see in places like Switzerland.
John

Offline swisstrains

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Re: High Speed and fencing
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2018, 10:36:05 AM »

…………….…... I like graffiti (provided it's on a derelict building) ………………...


I'm afraid this is one area where I can't agree with you Matt. In my mind graffiti on someone else's property, derelict or not, is totally unacceptable. It is the scourge of urban Switzerland and many other places.
John

Online The Q

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Re: High Speed and fencing
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2018, 01:32:58 PM »
Yes in the UK it's always a requirement to fence off railways,  the Kyle line was refused opening by the railway inspector due to the fencing being incomplete. 

There were odd exceptions like the line down to Weymouth docks along a public road.  Normally in those cases the locomotive would be required to have it's motion covered like a tram..

Offline Globibahn

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Re: High Speed and fencing
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2018, 02:47:05 PM »
I think it stems from the early days of railways when trains were deemed to be fire breathing monsters from which the public needed to be protected.

Good explanation!

Offline Globibahn

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Re: High Speed and fencing
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2018, 02:48:16 PM »

…………….…... I like graffiti (provided it's on a derelict building) ………………...


I'm afraid this is one area where I can't agree with you Matt. In my mind graffiti on someone else's property, derelict or not, is totally unacceptable. It is the scourge of urban Switzerland and many other places.

I'm aware this is a contentious issue!

Online daffy

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Re: High Speed and fencing
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2018, 09:52:09 PM »
I’ve been visiting Switzerland for many years and have a pretty good grasp of what makes the Swiss tick. They see rail transport in a completely different way to the Brits. To damage the rail network is to injure their carefully created and nurtured society. And the need to fence off the tracks is unnecessary where the members of that society use their own innate common sense to avoid a confrontation with a large lump of metal.

Nowadays of course there is the world-wide problem of graffiti, and I have noted over the years how much it has increased in volume upon Swiss lineside buildings and structures (not to mention rolling stock). In fact the graffiti problem in Switzerland is now practically endemic. It could be argued that some of it is art, and quite inspiring and of some merit at that, and sometimes even enhancing the enviroment. But most is the usual collection of tags, overpaints and garbage that befouls even some historic buildings, and offends the eye. I don’t see it as a good thing in general. Even the works of the likes of Banksy gives problems, for would be copycats who have none of the ability and quality of design, see these much lauded creations as an open invite and inspiration to add their own special brand of graffiti wherever they so please.

Ask yourself, what would be your reaction if you looked at your hard-earned  home one day to find someone had decided to use its walls and fences as a canvas for their ‘art’. Right next to your little slate nameplate of ‘Chez Nous’ or what-you-will, are the overly large and technicolour words showing that ‘Blodger’ or ‘Shadda’ has left his mark alongside an enormous cartoon-like character exhorting you to ‘Chill’. And within a week or so a dozen or so artists have added their own variations on the theme.

Now consider the cost to you of removing it all.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2018, 10:01:55 PM by daffy »
Mike

Sufferin' succotash!

Offline stevewalker

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Re: High Speed and fencing
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2018, 12:08:43 AM »
It's always seemed odd to me that they'll spray or draw graffiti on shop shutters, electrical cabinets, abandoned office, industrial buildings, even the grey boxes on poles that post-office vans deliver mail to for the posties to pick-up and distribute on their rounds and of course railway infrastructure and rolling stock, yet it is highly unusual for them to target private dwellings or parked vehicles. Almost as if there is an unwritten, moral code.

Offline weave

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Re: High Speed and fencing
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2018, 08:21:14 AM »
Hi Steve,

I presume it's because they're less likely to get caught.

However, there could be an unwritten rule to leave cars as a blank canvas for scorned women  :D

The 'GIVE PEAS A CHANCE' in huge letters on the bridge over the M25 still makes me smile.

Cheers weave  :beers:

Offline Globibahn

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Re: High Speed and fencing
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2018, 09:47:30 AM »
It's always seemed odd to me that they'll spray or draw graffiti on shop shutters, electrical cabinets, abandoned office, industrial buildings, even the grey boxes on poles that post-office vans deliver mail to for the posties to pick-up and distribute on their rounds and of course railway infrastructure and rolling stock, yet it is highly unusual for them to target private dwellings or parked vehicles. Almost as if there is an unwritten, moral code.

This is a really good point. Most proper urban artists just want a very visible platform (pardon the pun) for their creative work. They don't wish to cause damage to regular individuals and their possessions. Hence they largely go for large industrial sites/derelict buildings/ grotty infrastructure etc. which suits the context and does little harm to individuals.

Beauty is largely in the eye of the beholder (or beer-holder a I like to say) and urban artwork is not to everyone's taste. Mind you, gigantic adverts for Coca Cola, Cheese Strings and iPhones aren't to my taste at all and I still have to look at them wherever I go. I'd much rather look at graffiti.

I am in concordance with hating random tagging on public transport etc. which really is an eye-sore and shows disrespect of community property. And as said, I don't like shiny new trains which clearly cost a lot of public money being painted on.

Online njee20

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Re: High Speed and fencing
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2018, 10:48:00 AM »
A building/structure, or even a train belongs to a faceless corporation. As a general rule I'm not aware of graffiti artists wanting to actually inconvenience people. In the main they just want a canvas, why would you destroy a person's property? That said I know trains are often seen as a more 'impressive' target because of the difficulty in reaching them, but I suspect that's a subset of artists.

There was a run down area in Bristol where they encouraged artists to ply their 'trade', and it was superb, it wasn't the usual "Gazza" daubed on the buildings, but proper art, really impressive, a marked improvement on the dereliction.

I've no time whatsoever for people doing it on trains, or inhabited buildings or anything of the ilk, but in Globi's defence he said "derelict buildings", where it can be an improvement IMO.

But we digress spectacularly!

Online daffy

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Re: High Speed and fencing
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2018, 07:02:41 AM »
Here’s a very recent example of the association between railway line fences, high speed, and a member of the unthinking public. This one is in the Netherlands.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/cyclist-level-crossing-near-miss-train-crash-collision-netherlands-video-watch-a8652721.html

All the bright yellow painted road or pavement in the world (see end of article) won’t stop this sort of idiot from trying to kill themselves.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 07:07:31 AM by daffy »
Mike

Sufferin' succotash!

Offline Globibahn

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Re: High Speed and fencing
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2018, 08:00:57 AM »
Here’s a very recent example of the association between railway line fences, high speed, and a member of the unthinking public. This one is in the Netherlands.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/cyclist-level-crossing-near-miss-train-crash-collision-netherlands-video-watch-a8652721.html

All the bright yellow painted road or pavement in the world (see end of article) won’t stop this sort of idiot from trying to kill themselves.

Oh no!!!!!! Heart-stopping, what a total plonker!!!!

 

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