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Author Topic: East Midlands Coal  (Read 1943 times)

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Offline Claude Dreyfus

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Re: East Midlands Coal
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2018, 04:31:23 PM »
The layout was rebuilt and became Japanese outline. Known as Yamanouchi Oshika, it was sold a few years ago, but had a thread on here...

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=47.0

Good luck with your project. You are going to need lots of HAAs!

Offline Claude Dreyfus

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Re: East Midlands Coal
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2018, 04:50:01 PM »
Quote from: themadhippy
will there be a  coach load of flying pickets and lots of police riot vans?


Thanks. Now I have 'Only You' rattling through my head...

Offline EastMidsCoal

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Re: East Midlands Coal
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2018, 05:07:25 PM »
The layout was rebuilt and became Japanese outline. Known as Yamanouchi Oshika, it was sold a few years ago, but had a thread on here...

Good luck with your project. You are going to need lots of HAAs!

Thanks Claude,
Not really into Japanese railways, know nothing about them! But I'll certainly have a browse at the layout.

Yes, I think what with loaded and empty sets, those stabled as well as operating, the final layout will need 10-12 rakes ... so around 340 HAAs!!   :o. Ouch....

Richard

Offline Drakken

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Re: East Midlands Coal
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2018, 05:11:41 PM »
The layout was rebuilt and became Japanese outline. Known as Yamanouchi Oshika, it was sold a few years ago, but had a thread on here...

Good luck with your project. You are going to need lots of HAAs!

Thanks Claude,
Not really into Japanese railways, know nothing about them! But I'll certainly have a browse at the layout.

Yes, I think what with loaded and empty sets, those stabled as well as operating, the final layout will need 10-12 rakes ... so around 340 HAAs!!   :o. Ouch....

Richard

340 HAA's now seeing that amount in sidings or in a fiddle yard would be seriously impressive. Please take photo's  :beers:

Offline EastMidsCoal

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Re: East Midlands Coal
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2018, 05:58:40 PM »
340 HAA's now seeing that amount in sidings or in a fiddle yard would be seriously impressive. Please take photo's  :beers:


Oh I certainly will. I am hoping/aiming to create a layout that will have realism in the scenic area. Although it will take some time (not to mention money!) to collect that number of wagons.

However, this is the plan for the yard (which is Phase 3 or 4 of the layout) as it stands. There are 14 sorting sidings in the centre, to the left are four recess and one through road, to the right is an arrival/departure access road and the four track main line.



So there should be a good image to be had of 11-12 HAA sets all lined up!

Richard

Offline Drakken

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Re: East Midlands Coal
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2018, 06:14:28 PM »
This is going to be one massive yard, So excited so see this come to life.

The money side I won't even go there yet just look at the amount of track, Will be such an impressive sight when completed. Subscribed to see the evolution :beers:

Online bluedepot

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Re: East Midlands Coal
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2018, 06:34:25 PM »
nice 56 model!

it's hard to find second hand trix or peco haa wagons for under 10 pounds nowadays... maybe 340 is too many!!!


Tim

Offline Claude Dreyfus

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Re: East Midlands Coal
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2018, 06:50:02 PM »
There are a fair few available on Fleabay. Mainly in sets of two or three, but there a few larger groups. The trick is to get them in smaller groups, which obviously spears out the cost...very rare to get a complete rake at the same time. I am not sure how well they mix and match between manufacturers.

Looks like Farish are re-releasing them, but at an RRP of just under £20 a pop, you're looking at nearly 7 grand for 340 of them.

Offline EastMidsCoal

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Re: East Midlands Coal
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2018, 08:16:05 PM »
nice 56 model!

it's hard to find second hand trix or peco haa wagons for under 10 pounds nowadays... maybe 340 is too many!!!

Tim

Hi Tim,
Thanks, I must say I am very pleased with it.  The specification and detail in N gauge has come on massively since I last looked at it.  Really pleased I made the move now!

There are a fair few available on Fleabay. Mainly in sets of two or three, but there a few larger groups. The trick is to get them in smaller groups, which obviously spears out the cost...very rare to get a complete rake at the same time. I am not sure how well they mix and match between manufacturers.

Looks like Farish are re-releasing them, but at an RRP of just under £20 a pop, you're looking at nearly 7 grand for 340 of them.

Thanks - yes I have been having a look around that auction site, there are a few options there, but the advantage (from my point of view) is that this is a phased approach to building, with the Depot first, hence primarily build up the loco fleet a bit, acquiring wagons as and where I can, next will be the main lines to allow the locos to stretch their legs.  So there is no rush to acquire them.  Ones and twos here and there I suspect!

Certainly no way I am paying £7 grand for all the same type of wagons!!!

This is going to be one massive yard, So excited so see this come to life.

The money side I won't even go there yet just look at the amount of track, Will be such an impressive sight when completed. Subscribed to see the evolution :beers:

Pleased to have you along :) It may be a long(ish) ride.  The fiddle yards need to go down before the yard, although in some respects that will be easier being Peco Code 55 points and metre-lengths, again acquired here and there as I go.  Haven't sat and designed the fiddle yards yet, concentrating on making sure I could get the scenic parts to work together, but with coal trains dominating, the various Speedlink trips and trunk workings, loaded and empty Tubeliner Lackenby-Corby sets, a rake of RMC hoppers on a Bletchley-Peak Forest working, plus XC passenger sets, DMUs for Birmingham and Crewe (the latter via Uttoxeter) and MML / XC HST sets, I suspect the fiddle yards will be far bigger than the yard!  Shame it will all be hidden.

The slow phased build should help keep everything in perspective, but there are three 'entrances' from the FY to the layout, so they all need to be planned, and in place before the fiddle yard can be designed.  Still its all fun and exciting stuff :)

Given the number of points and consequently the number of servos that are going to be needed, its a good thing I quite enjoy electronics!!  Mind you if you think the yard looks good from that screen shot, wait until you see what the plan is for the layout control  :D

Thanks all for the interest - I must say, having other input and enthusiasm is giving me a big push to get on with it!

Richard
« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 08:17:58 PM by EastMidsCoal »

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: East Midlands Coal
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2018, 08:41:34 PM »
I have a feeling this is just going to boggle my mind so lots of pics will be required please :camera:

Offline EastMidsCoal

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Re: East Midlands Coal
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2018, 10:53:26 PM »
I have a feeling this is just going to boggle my mind so lots of pics will be required please :camera:


 :D I'll try not to Mick!!  Although given that comment, I thought it might be a good idea to set the location of the layout and put into perspective how I've slightly re-written railway history to make it work.

The attached diagram shows the actual East Midlands Rail Network as it was in the 1980s - with the core routes, and core stations marked along with the various collieries and power stations.  There were two other power stations served by this area, Drakelow and Saffron Lane, both located south of Burton-on-Trent on the Burton to Coalville Line.  Some services also worked to Rugeley and Ironbridge Power Stations, although such workings were not common in the late 1980s.  The area circled in Orange is that portrayed by the layout.



On the right is map showing the previously circled area as it might have been had railway history followed my premise.  Instead of leaving Derby in a South Westerley direction towards Stenton Junction (as is) and Burton-on-Trent, I'm imagining that it headed south through the suburbs of Allenton and Chellaston. At Allenton there were a couple of recess sidings for coal sets, while at Chellaston (where there is a Speedlink yard) a flyover was built, to allow traffic heading west/south to Uttoxter, Burton-on-Trent and Willington to cross under the MML main that went east to Trent Junction. 

The existing Midland Counties Railway east from Derby was still built, with a junction on the Trent to Toton route, but is now primarily used by services to Nottingham and the Erewash Valley line through Toton.  All MML traffic from Derby leaves south, taking the flyover at Chellaston then across the River Trent (following the current freight only route to Sheet Stores Jn) to rejoin the current MML at Trent Junction.

Hope that helps - the current plan is for the layout to run from just north of Derby station to just west of Chellaston Yard and just east of Chellaston where the line crosses the River Trent.

Richard

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: East Midlands Coal
« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2018, 09:49:52 AM »
I have nothing but admiration for those who base their model on a prototype, even with some artistic licence/compression  :admiration:
In my 40 years or so in N gauge I've never done anything else but think "What do I want to see running and where would it have been likely?" Hence my main layout fetching up 'somewhere near Oxford' so I can run stock from 4 different regions quite legitimately and make up reasons for anything out of the ordinary appearing e.g. 'footie special' or 'diverted owing to permanent way workings' ;)

Offline njee20

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Re: East Midlands Coal
« Reply #27 on: September 21, 2018, 10:01:40 AM »
Agreed, but I'd say that all but the most fastidious of prototype modellers still flex things a little bit with "engineering diversions" or whatever!

I want to model a prototype location next, but it won't actually alter what I run, even if some of it isn't wholly prototypical for the location! What I have found is how bloody big real places are! Unless you're modelling a section of plain line or you have a warehouse to build in you almost always need some selective compression for everything to work!

Offline EastMidsCoal

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Re: East Midlands Coal
« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2018, 11:38:08 AM »
Thanks guys,

Agreed, but I'd say that all but the most fastidious of prototype modellers still flex things a little bit with "engineering diversions" or whatever!

I want to model a prototype location next, but it won't actually alter what I run, even if some of it isn't wholly prototypical for the location! What I have found is how bloody big real places are! Unless you're modelling a section of plain line or you have a warehouse to build in you almost always need some selective compression for everything to work!

Yes would agree with that entirely. Probably less so in an gauge to be honest, but there is always compression needed.

For me, I couldnít have got the width of Toton Yard and the TMD in for example, and I wanted this flyover/under for the scenic element, so hence the adaption of history. Mind you, the station will be based on Derby, but Iíve had to lose the RTC, Etches Park and the old Loco Works site from the back because of space.

But part is probably having worked on the railway for a bit, I needed to have a specific location for the realism side.

Richard

Offline EastMidsCoal

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Re: East Midlands Coal
« Reply #29 on: September 21, 2018, 03:55:24 PM »
Afternoon all,
Just a quick update - I borrowed a metre-length of track and an old gauge master controller from a friend this morning, and was able to give 56016 its first movements.  This model really does astounding me, I don't recall my couple of N gauge items of the past, having the running qualities that this has!  Truly blown away and very, very pleased I've moved down this road.

Also, just so that nobody gets confused, I have also started a thread on rmWeb - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/137735-east-midlands-coal-1980s-br-blue/, which I've been a member of for a while.  Neither will have preference, and it is my intention to keep each up to date with what is happening, as I value the opinions of people on both.  Neither forum will miss anything thats happening! :)

Also been thinking what Mick suggested about gradients, in terms of one road climbing slight, the other descending slightly and I think that is probably the way to go with it. Set the baseboards a little higher perhaps 20mm, so there is that lea-way on the height.  It should also mean that in essence the variance of the the rising and lowering lines is around 22-23mm, to give an overall height difference of 45mm(ish) with this change taking place over 6-7ft, which I think should make the grades easy for the trains.



Richard
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 05:58:57 PM by EastMidsCoal »

 

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