!!

Not Registered?

Welcome!  Please register to view all of the new posts and forum boards - some of which are hidden to guests.  After registering and gaining 10 posts you will be able to sell and buy items on our N'porium.

If you have any problems registering, then please check your spam filter before emailing us.  Hotmail users seem to find their emails in the Junk folder.


Thanks for reading,
The NGF Staff.

Author Topic: Takahachikawa (Japanese layout)  (Read 40810 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Online railsquid

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • N Gauge Society Number: 25547
  • Posts: 5809
  • Country: scotland
  • Gender: Male
    • My model railway website
    • Awards
Re: Takahachikawa (Japanese layout)
« Reply #945 on: May 29, 2020, 03:01:27 PM »
That's a cracking looking book Ian, unlike you, I can't read the ruddy thing  :( otherwise I would try and get a copy

It's certainly fascinating reading, at least if you have a strange interest in old N gauge stuff. I reckon if I ever get invited onto Mastermind, my speciality will be "Japanese N gauge between 1965 and 1980"  :D

Anyway talking of that kind of thing it's Friday, the pubs are closed so it's time for an Obscure Japanese DC Locomotive Trivia Quiz!

Here we see a lineup of 4 (four) different looking locomotives:



However only two locomotive classes are represented. Which pair of locos belongs to each of the two classes?

For bonus points: what is the specific real-world connection between the types of locomotive represented here? I don't mean anything general like they're all Japanese or all have two pantographs etc..
Takahachikawa - Japanese and other trains

Birmingham Knotmore Street - (ex) GWR mainline through the Midlands

Offline Train Waiting

  • Larger Gallery
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3348
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • The Table-Top Railway.
    • Awards
Re: Takahachikawa (Japanese layout)
« Reply #946 on: May 29, 2020, 04:25:26 PM »
Thank you.  Here's a guess.

Two in middle same class.  Two on outside same class.  One on far left a rebuild of one on far right.  Like Bulleid 'Pacifics'!

Connection... built by same company.  Guess at Mitsubishi.

Will now stand back ready for ritual humiliation!

Best wishes.

John
'Why does the Disney Castle work so well?  Because it borrows from reality without ever slipping into it.'

(Acknowledgement: John Goodall Esq, Architectural Editor, 'Country Life'.)

The Table-Top Railway is an attempt to create, in British 'N' gauge,  a 'semi-scenic' railway in the old-fashioned style, reminiscent of the layouts of the 1930s to the 1950s.

For the made-up background to the railway and list of characters, please see here: https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=38281.msg607991#msg607991

Offline Bealman

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • N Gauge Society Number: 23151
  • Posts: 19527
  • Country: au
  • Gender: Male
  • Promotion remains in the future
    • Awards
Re: Takahachikawa (Japanese layout)
« Reply #947 on: May 29, 2020, 06:56:08 PM »
Geez, I definitely can't sleep! 3.50am here and I'm lying in bed trying to work this out!  :confused1:

I'd say that's not a bad guess, John - I'll go with you!

I'm also interested in what that structure in the background is (behind the last loco).

Going to try to get some more shuteye now....  :sleep:
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

Online railsquid

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • N Gauge Society Number: 25547
  • Posts: 5809
  • Country: scotland
  • Gender: Male
    • My model railway website
    • Awards
Re: Takahachikawa (Japanese layout)
« Reply #948 on: May 30, 2020, 05:22:35 AM »
One on far left a rebuild of one on far right. 

The rebuild hypothesis is on the right track, figuratively speaking (I bet no-one ever made that pun before on a model railway forum), but the oddly-shaped loco on the far right is an EF13, as is the one next to it (both 1-Co-Co-1). The two on the lefts are EF58s (both 2-Co-Co-2).

The EF13s were what would in British parlance be called "wartime austerity" locomotives put together out of whatever bits were available. The EF58s were an immediate post-war design intended as an express passenger locomotive, basically a newer version of the EF57 we saw previously, and the first 31 built between 1946 and 1948 looked very much like their predecessor. There then followed a production interruption due to reasons, which resumed in 1952 together with a decision to use a more modern exterior design (like the version on the left). And it was decided to retrofit the old versions with the new body, and presumably someone realised they had 30 or so new-ish bodies which would be just right for the 30 or so wartime EF13s. And hence the two locos in the centre look very similar, despite being very different classes.
Takahachikawa - Japanese and other trains

Birmingham Knotmore Street - (ex) GWR mainline through the Midlands

Offline Train Waiting

  • Larger Gallery
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3348
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • The Table-Top Railway.
    • Awards
Re: Takahachikawa (Japanese layout)
« Reply #949 on: May 30, 2020, 09:22:29 AM »
Excellent!  Having enlarged the photograph I can see the front bogies.  That was a splendid 'Obscure Japanese DC Locomotive Trivia Quiz' (hope I got that right!); I look forward to the next one.

Best wishes.

John
'Why does the Disney Castle work so well?  Because it borrows from reality without ever slipping into it.'

(Acknowledgement: John Goodall Esq, Architectural Editor, 'Country Life'.)

The Table-Top Railway is an attempt to create, in British 'N' gauge,  a 'semi-scenic' railway in the old-fashioned style, reminiscent of the layouts of the 1930s to the 1950s.

For the made-up background to the railway and list of characters, please see here: https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=38281.msg607991#msg607991

Offline Bealman

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • N Gauge Society Number: 23151
  • Posts: 19527
  • Country: au
  • Gender: Male
  • Promotion remains in the future
    • Awards
Re: Takahachikawa (Japanese layout)
« Reply #950 on: May 30, 2020, 09:27:05 AM »
I'm still waiting to hear what the structure in the background is  ;)

Don't fret too much, Ian, I can wait until the early hours of tomorrow morning again... I'll be awake for the rescheduled SpaceX launch anyway  ;D
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

Offline Snowwolflair

  • Larger Gallery
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 25174
  • 2mm Association Number: 4194
  • Posts: 3947
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Takahachikawa (Japanese layout)
« Reply #951 on: May 30, 2020, 10:07:44 AM »
I'm still waiting to hear what the structure in the background is  ;)

Don't fret too much, Ian, I can wait until the early hours of tomorrow morning again... I'll be awake for the rescheduled SpaceX launch anyway  ;D

Power distribution transformers up pole structure. 

Offline Bealman

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • N Gauge Society Number: 23151
  • Posts: 19527
  • Country: au
  • Gender: Male
  • Promotion remains in the future
    • Awards
Re: Takahachikawa (Japanese layout)
« Reply #952 on: May 30, 2020, 10:13:36 AM »
Thanks!  :thumbsup:

Of course this means I may miss the SpaceX launch....  ;)
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

Online tutenkhamunsleeping

  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 23866
  • 2mm Association Number: 4854
  • Posts: 2022
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Ebay
    • YouTube
    • Awards
Re: Takahachikawa (Japanese layout)
« Reply #953 on: May 30, 2020, 10:23:26 AM »
Of course this means I may miss the SpaceX launch....  ;)

I'm sure they've got a reserve astronaut if you don't show ;)

Online railsquid

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • N Gauge Society Number: 25547
  • Posts: 5809
  • Country: scotland
  • Gender: Male
    • My model railway website
    • Awards
Re: Takahachikawa (Japanese layout)
« Reply #954 on: May 30, 2020, 12:00:48 PM »
I'm still waiting to hear what the structure in the background is  ;)

Don't fret too much, Ian, I can wait until the early hours of tomorrow morning again... I'll be awake for the rescheduled SpaceX launch anyway  ;D

Power distribution transformers up pole structure.

Indeed, more specifically stepdown transformers for converting higher-voltage transmission line power to something suitable for use within a locomotive depot etc., and they appear de rigueur for any Japanese layout with a depot or similar.

Here is a better view:


depot-rear-2020-05-09_01 by Rail Squid, on Flickr
Takahachikawa - Japanese and other trains

Birmingham Knotmore Street - (ex) GWR mainline through the Midlands

Online railsquid

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • N Gauge Society Number: 25547
  • Posts: 5809
  • Country: scotland
  • Gender: Male
    • My model railway website
    • Awards
Re: Takahachikawa (Japanese layout)
« Reply #955 on: June 05, 2020, 01:58:49 PM »
Excellent!  Having enlarged the photograph I can see the front bogies.  That was a splendid 'Obscure Japanese DC Locomotive Trivia Quiz' (hope I got that right!); I look forward to the next one.

Well, you did ask... As it happens I was rummaging in my Big Box of Old-Style Japanese DC Locos, as one does of a Friday evening, and stumbled upon another EF58 I'd forgotten I had acquired (that happens a lot these days :worried: ). And is an excellent opportunity to build upon last week's theme - and this week's question is: this is EF58-35, with the "new style" body shell. What does it have in common with the "old style" EF58 seen last week, and not with later ones such as the "new style" version in last week's photo? You may want to take a closer look at last week's photo.


Kato EF58 (EF58 35) by Rail Squid, on Flickr

Hint: it's not the protrusions above the cab windows, which are merely a sign the locomotive was intended for cold mountainous areas and the associated plague of icicles dangling from tunnel roofs.
Takahachikawa - Japanese and other trains

Birmingham Knotmore Street - (ex) GWR mainline through the Midlands

Offline Train Waiting

  • Larger Gallery
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3348
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • The Table-Top Railway.
    • Awards
Re: Takahachikawa (Japanese layout)
« Reply #956 on: June 05, 2020, 02:31:17 PM »
What a gloriously obscure question!  The number and arrangement of windows on the side of the body?

Best wishes.

John
'Why does the Disney Castle work so well?  Because it borrows from reality without ever slipping into it.'

(Acknowledgement: John Goodall Esq, Architectural Editor, 'Country Life'.)

The Table-Top Railway is an attempt to create, in British 'N' gauge,  a 'semi-scenic' railway in the old-fashioned style, reminiscent of the layouts of the 1930s to the 1950s.

For the made-up background to the railway and list of characters, please see here: https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=38281.msg607991#msg607991

Offline keithbythe sea

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1439
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Takahachikawa (Japanese layout)
« Reply #957 on: June 06, 2020, 07:48:39 AM »
Flag pole on front right bumper??? Diplomatic status?  :D

Online railsquid

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • N Gauge Society Number: 25547
  • Posts: 5809
  • Country: scotland
  • Gender: Male
    • My model railway website
    • Awards
Re: Takahachikawa (Japanese layout)
« Reply #958 on: June 08, 2020, 01:53:16 AM »
What a gloriously obscure question!  The number and arrangement of windows on the side of the body?

DING DING DING we have a winner! As described last week, the first batch of 30 locomotives of this class was originally produced with the old-style bodies. A second batch was ordered but production came to a grinding halt in 1949 due to post-war crises, with only EF58-31 squeaking into service, and numbers EF58-32 to EF58-36 halted in various staged of completion. Production was resumed in 1952, by which time the design had changed to the more modern style. Three of the five, EF58-32 to EF58-34, were in an advanced stage of completion and for reasons I don't recall but probably due to immediate operational requirements were converted to freight-only locos and reclassified to EF18. EF58-35 and EF58-36 were only part complete and it was decided to convert the existing bodies (based on the old design) to the new design, basically by chopping the old ends off and adding extended cabs. EF58-35 is "particularly unique" in that the old design cab end doors were used as the side cab doors so the top of the cab door windows is out-of-line with all the rest.

To complicate things further, the second batch "old design" had more side windows than the "first batch" old design, so EF58-35's sides are similar to but not identical to those of EF58-24, but would be almost the same as the F18s (tragically I do not own one of those).

Flag pole on front right bumper??? Diplomatic status?  :D

That's no flagpole, that's to give shunters something to hang on to, see the below video from about 1:50:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJGj_zkQjXI

The Kato-provided poles are white plastic, and the one on the left is unfortunately not visible against the white of the neighbouring house (somewhere I have some more realistic metal replacement parts, must get round to fitting them).

But flags, yes, that gives me an idea for the next obscure quiz...
Takahachikawa - Japanese and other trains

Birmingham Knotmore Street - (ex) GWR mainline through the Midlands

Online railsquid

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • N Gauge Society Number: 25547
  • Posts: 5809
  • Country: scotland
  • Gender: Male
    • My model railway website
    • Awards
Re: Takahachikawa (Japanese layout)
« Reply #959 on: June 08, 2020, 02:04:36 AM »
Addendum: EF58-36 survived statically "preserved" in private ownership, albeit in neglected form and with one cab removed:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDyIBhDSwas

It has since been removed from that location and acquired by JR, but apparently with most of the rest of the body amputated, see e.g. here: http://hrkc70.livedoor.blog/archives/2014-01-04.html

Takahachikawa - Japanese and other trains

Birmingham Knotmore Street - (ex) GWR mainline through the Midlands

 

Please Support Us!
July Goal: £60.00
Due Date: Jul 31
Total Receipts: £15.00
Below Goal: £45.00
Site Currency: GBP
25% 
July Donations

anything
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal