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Author Topic: East Coast to be Nationalised....Again?  (Read 1004 times)

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Offline Nick

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Re: East Coast to be Nationalised....Again?
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2018, 05:03:39 PM »
East Coast does not attract the predicted traffic volumes time after time, which suggests to me that the someone somewhere does not understand the demographics.

This, many times this! It's the same failing each time. I'm not sure if the passenger volumes have been flat or are growing, just not at the predicted rate, but why have successive franchisees made the same error.
This is just bizarre isn't it? The contract only started in March 2015, so presumably would have been based on traffic numbers up to then. We're only in 2018 now, so those numbers are at most three or four years old.

Is the East Coast economy folding that fast? Or are these franchises run on such tight margins that errors in growth forecasts can wipe them out in a handful of years? It was an eight year contract for Pete's sake. You should plan to have to ride out a few overs and unders in eight years.
Nick

The perfect is the enemy of the good - Voltaire

Offline NeMo

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Re: East Coast to be Nationalised....Again?
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2018, 05:23:49 PM »
Actually, last time the ECML was 'temporarily' nationalised, didn't it make a profit?

It was indeed very well run and successful.

It's never been clear to me why successive governments have been extremely hostile to the idea of a state-owned train operating company. Or more specifically, a British state-owned train operating company. They are absolutely fine with French, German and Dutch state-owned companies running trains in the UK.

Cheers, Neale

Offline Papyrus

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Re: East Coast to be Nationalised....Again?
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2018, 05:54:29 PM »
According to BBC News, they are going to rebrand it 'LNER'!!

At this rate, they'll be bringing back A4s, Scotsman, Tornado et al.  :D

Cheers,

Chris
"As I always say, it's a funny old world. Do you always say that? Oh good." (Jill Tweedie)

Offline Nick

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Re: East Coast to be Nationalised....Again?
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2018, 05:55:02 PM »
The Guardian is reporting that the ECML will be rebranded as, wait for it... The London and North East Railway!

So we will now have a Great Western and an LNER. Anyone for the LMS?  :D

Ah, what goes around, comes around!
« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 05:57:02 PM by Nick, Reason: Sorry, Payrus got in first.. »
Nick

The perfect is the enemy of the good - Voltaire

Offline The Q

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Re: East Coast to be Nationalised....Again?
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2018, 06:56:28 PM »
According to BBC News, they are going to rebrand it 'LNER'!!

At this rate, they'll be bringing back A4s, Scotsman, Tornado et al.  :D

Cheers,

Chris
The government have owned the LNER name since 1947, save more expense paying for a new one..
According to the BBC tv news the ecml goes from London to.... Glasgow, said twice !!!

The railways were screwed by the UK governments in WW1 and WW2 not paying for the costs of the wars to the railways. The political interference trying to recover the situation by forcing the big 4, meant the big four were forced to take in lines that never had a chance of making a profit.

Roads are paid for by general taxation ( including road/ fuel) taxes
Railways have to pay rates on their land.

Online njee20

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Re: East Coast to be Nationalised....Again?
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2018, 07:25:31 PM »
None of those franchises have folded though, just natural turnover. What have we had on the ECML: GNER, NXEC, East Coast, VTEC and now LNER. Where GNER, NXEC and VTEC have all failed and East Coast was operated by the government.

I must say I also donít get the reluctance to leave it under public control.

Online PLD

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Re: East Coast to be Nationalised....Again?
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2018, 07:28:32 PM »
According to the BBC tv news the ecml goes from London to.... Glasgow, said twice !!!
It does indeed... 1 train about every 2-3 hours is extended from Edinburgh to Glasgow Central.  :confused2:

Offline xm607

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Re: East Coast to be Nationalised....Again?
« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2018, 07:39:29 PM »
91,s and DVT'S in blue and coaches in teak anyone?
Steve.

Offline voltan

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Re: East Coast to be Nationalised....Again?
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2018, 08:06:48 PM »
Actually, last time the ECML was 'temporarily' nationalised, didn't it make a profit?

Yes, but I'm guessing they didn't have to pay out to the treasury for the franchise before trying to make a profit. So the actual amount of money that came to the government might be less than the payments from the franchise holder.

Offline captainelectra

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Re: East Coast to be Nationalised....Again?
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2018, 08:25:04 PM »
Things have obviously been happening in the background...

http://www.lnerailway.co.uk/

At least they are sticking with red, so no need to mess about with the 91s and HSTs in their last years...
Best Regards,
Adam Warr
Electra Rail
Peterborough, UK
http://www.electrarail.co.uk
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Offline Mito

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Re: East Coast to be Nationalised....Again?
« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2018, 09:49:00 PM »
Having lived in Spain for the past 30 years I'm not up to date with rail happenings in Britain. But I have always thought that the franchising of the railway network was a considerable step backwards. I have yet to read or hear any good user comments about the system. Here the railways are still nationalised. I don't travel much but I can go from Valencia to Barcelona on and electric equivalent of a 125 for around 70Ä return, a 400km journey. Added to that the journey from my local station, a 50 minute journey is free. The trains are well patronized clean and on time. Whilst private companies need profits, they now seem to put those before clients.
Just an observation.
You know you're getting older when your mind makes commitments your body can't meet.

Offline Bramshot

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Re: East Coast to be Nationalised....Again?
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2018, 09:52:23 PM »
My daughter sometimes finds it cheaper to fly from London to Newcastle than to get the train. That includes the cost of travel to Heathrow from central London. Maybe this has something to do with the lack of profitability-ridiculous fares.

Offline Hailstone

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Re: East Coast to be Nationalised....Again?
« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2018, 10:30:23 PM »
I recently travelled to Edinburgh with Mrs Hailstone to visit friends for a few days, Mrs Hailstone got us cheap tickets in advance for £38 return each! the route? EUSTON to EDINBURGH on a VIRGIN Pendolino!
it would seem to me that virgin were shooting themselves in the foot by trying to serve Edinburgh from 2 London termini
As for comfort, IMHO Pendolino seats are not fit for a six hour journey, I have to say MK1 seats were better.

regards,

Alex

Online woodbury22uk

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Re: East Coast to be Nationalised....Again?
« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2018, 11:40:47 PM »
I know this is nothing to do with the subject of this thread, but just to clarify--the government gets VAT on road fuel, (plus duty) and vehicle sales as well as road tax, but passenger fares on road and rail are zero-rated for VAT.

So all the costs of materials and services bought in by the train operating companies (including VAT) have to be factored into passenger fares and cannot otherwise be recovered from users. Government has only missed out on the final added value in the fare as all that VAT has been paid already.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 11:35:20 AM by woodbury22uk »
Mike

Over-user of brackets and quotation marks.

Wondering how many pedants can dance of the head of a pin.


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Online njee20

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Re: East Coast to be Nationalised....Again?
« Reply #29 on: May 17, 2018, 09:20:45 AM »
I recently travelled to Edinburgh with Mrs Hailstone to visit friends for a few days, Mrs Hailstone got us cheap tickets in advance for £38 return each! the route? EUSTON to EDINBURGH on a VIRGIN Pendolino!
it would seem to me that virgin were shooting themselves in the foot by trying to serve Edinburgh from 2 London termini
As for comfort, IMHO Pendolino seats are not fit for a six hour journey, I have to say MK1 seats were better.

VTEC is 90% Stagecoach and 10% Virgin, VTWC is 51% Virgin and 49% Stagecoach, don't let the branding fool you. A minority of WCML trains go to Edinburgh anyway, the far more obvious route is on the East Coast.

It really does seem to be an overestimation of the passenger numbers. Again. Which is crazy.

 

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