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Author Topic: Hadley Wood  (Read 9148 times)

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Offline Stevie DC

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Re: Hadley Wood
« Reply #105 on: November 02, 2018, 10:12:12 AM »
Thanks Steve
Thats really useful info.

No problem, the one jig that I would say was essential (more so than the track gauges) is a blade filing jig. Mine came from Finetrax for their 'B' series points. It's a bit battered now and needs replacing but its done well for a lot of blades and is far easier than trying the file blades by eye. My 'V' jig for the frog/common crossing is simply a piece of 0.5mm gray board cut to the correct shape - I'm still using the original and it has still got life in it yet!

Online kirky

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Re: Hadley Wood
« Reply #106 on: November 02, 2018, 10:29:19 AM »
Thanks again Steve.
I’ve got a finetrax blade jig!

Cheers
Kirky
Northallerton is in the August 2018 edition of Raiway Modeller

and in real life at the Hartlepool MODEL RAILWAY CLUB ANNUAL EXHIBITION
October 2019



Layout: Northallerton: http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=1671.msg16930#msg16930

www.northallertonngauge.co.uk

Cleveland Model Railway club website: www.clevelandmrc.club

Offline Stevie DC

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Re: Hadley Wood
« Reply #107 on: February 18, 2019, 12:28:34 PM »
It has been a little while since I last posted an update on the layout. Some bits have been happening; the boards have been assembled and sealed and I've finally built the second of the 'super slips' for the fiddle yard. With luck, track laying will finally commence sometime in the next month!

I've spent a bit of time researching the types of trains that would have run through and occasionally stopped at Hadley Wood. I've started with the passenger formations and found some very helpful advice and information from LNER Society members John Smart and Steve Banks.

Where to start with this? Well for starters, the Dapol (and Minitrix) Gresley's would only make up a very small percentage of the carriage stock - even by the late 1930's period. Much of the stock would have been pre-grouping with ex-GNR coaches dominating (with a couple of ex-NER coaches thrown in for good measure). In fact, the Dapol Gresley's would hardly been seen at all in the earlier 1932 period of the layout as they represent carriages built after 1931 - the LNER was always impoverish so newly built gangway stock would usually go to first rate formations and the displaced stock cascaded down into lesser services.

As an example, I am slowly making up a set of coaches that would have formed a (non-catering) express service between King's Cross and Cambridge. As the formation remained consistent between 1934 and 1937, it is an ideal short secondary express to model (and could be used several times during a sequence). The makeup of the train was completely ex-GNR coaches and a mix of end vestibule and non-end vestibule coaches. The oldest two coaches in the formation date back to the 1890's one of them being a non-end vestibule and the other being an end vestibule clerestory! Hardly the kind of train that you would think of as an express!

Anyway, while I've posted these on my C&W works thread, I feel that for the sake of completeness, I should be them here too.



This is the body for a 58' 1 1/2" Gresley Lavatory Composite Brake of 1907/8. There would be two of these coaches in the formation being the first and fifth coaches (from North to South) in the formation.



This one is a Howlden Lavatory Composite dating from 1898. This is the fourth coach in the formation.

The clerestory end vestibule third is the sixth coach and two ex-GN Gresley end vestibule thirds are the second and third coaches in the formation - notice how the end vestibules aren't all coupled together! I don't understand the logic of why the train was formed this way but it remained like this for at least three years! It has certainly made me have to re-evaluate my thoughts on what the majority of LNER passenger secondary services were really like - even many of the main expresses were still made up of pre-grouping stock (albeit generally later builds than described above).


Offline chrispearce

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Re: Hadley Wood
« Reply #108 on: February 18, 2019, 12:40:07 PM »
Oh, to own a 3D Printer. It must be great to design and produce your own bespoke models. The possibilities must be endless!

With one of those I could rule the earth...……………………………….. >:D

Or just a highly individual model railway.
Some situations in life are like dairy cows. When you see 'em you just gotta milk 'em.

Offline Stevie DC

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Re: Hadley Wood
« Reply #109 on: February 18, 2019, 01:17:17 PM »
Oh, to own a 3D Printer. It must be great to design and produce your own bespoke models. The possibilities must be endless!

With one of those I could rule the earth...……………………………….. >:D

Or just a highly individual model railway.

You don't need to own a 3D printer, just be able to use (or learn) a CAD programme. There are 3D printing companies out there who will print your design. Ok, this can be a little pricey sometimes but you don't have the hassle of purchasing/setting up/maintaining/servicing a printer.  ;)

Offline chrispearce

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Re: Hadley Wood
« Reply #110 on: February 18, 2019, 04:17:33 PM »
Oh, to own a 3D Printer. It must be great to design and produce your own bespoke models. The possibilities must be endless!

With one of those I could rule the earth...……………………………….. >:D

Or just a highly individual model railway.

You don't need to own a 3D printer, just be able to use (or learn) a CAD programme. There are 3D printing companies out there who will print your design. Ok, this can be a little pricey sometimes but you don't have the hassle of purchasing/setting up/maintaining/servicing a printer.  ;)

Thanks Atso. Interesting thought. Just as a theoretical exercise what is your view on producing something like an LSWR/SR Beattie 2-4-0 Well Tank? I merely ask because of your experience and there are a few people on the NGF who, I am sure, would take a lot of interest in such a model. I think a chassis may pose a challenge though. Even a butchered and reversed Dapol 14xx might not be much of a success.
Some situations in life are like dairy cows. When you see 'em you just gotta milk 'em.

Offline Stevie DC

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Re: Hadley Wood
« Reply #111 on: February 18, 2019, 05:04:12 PM »
Thanks Atso. Interesting thought. Just as a theoretical exercise what is your view on producing something like an LSWR/SR Beattie 2-4-0 Well Tank? I merely ask because of your experience and there are a few people on the NGF who, I am sure, would take a lot of interest in such a model. I think a chassis may pose a challenge though. Even a butchered and reversed Dapol 14xx might not be much of a success.

From a CAD point of view, the body shouldn't be anymore difficult than any other locomotive.

The first issue, as you've already identified, would be the chassis. You're right than the 14xx chassis wouldn't be a success - without some major surgery that is. The motor is encased within the chassis block which is far too large to fit within the boiler of the well tank. At 7'4 the coupled wheelbase of the 14xx isn't too bad compared to the Beattie's 7' but if it were me, I'd be thinking about chopping up a Farish or Dapol pannier chassis, fitting larger wheels and maybe replacing the motor with a 6mm Nigel Lawton one.

The next hurdle to overcome would be weight; The well tank is truly tiny and there really isn't a lot of room to add any weight. This is where you'd have to be asking if an etched metal body would be a better option - a heavier material and thin sheet material which will provide more room for weight to be added over the thicker walls of a 3D print. By this point, would it be worth building an etched chassis to scale dimensions and filling that with weight as well?

I think that the well tank presents some 'interesting' challenges. That's not to say that it can't be done, a 2mm Finescale layout I know of has three of them (I believe with hand made motors too) and they work beautify but probably beyond my current ability to replicate. 

 

Offline martyn

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Re: Hadley Wood
« Reply #112 on: February 18, 2019, 05:26:13 PM »
Hello again Steve;

The use of pre-grouping stock on the LNER section even lasted well into BR days, as I know you will be aware; I have a photo of an ex GER Restaurant car being added to a Cambridge Race special at Liverpool St in 1959, and somewhere I've photos of ex GER corridor stock and even NER clerestories included in cross country trains/stoppers also well into the 50's. The ex GER stock was painted a 'teak' colour, not with false scumbling to represent teak panels, but just plain paint; it may have been the underframe/wheel paint that the LNER used? Many years ago, I added beading to a Farish corridor coach, and painted it teak; it wasn't that close to an ex GER coach, but it looked the part in a secondary train, and it did get comments of 'I never knew BR did that' at a couple of exhibitions.

Anyway, congratulations again on some excellent work.

Martyn


Offline Stevie DC

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Re: Hadley Wood
« Reply #113 on: February 18, 2019, 08:05:36 PM »
Hello again Steve;

The use of pre-grouping stock on the LNER section even lasted well into BR days, as I know you will be aware; I have a photo of an ex GER Restaurant car being added to a Cambridge Race special at Liverpool St in 1959, and somewhere I've photos of ex GER corridor stock and even NER clerestories included in cross country trains/stoppers also well into the 50's. The ex GER stock was painted a 'teak' colour, not with false scumbling to represent teak panels, but just plain paint; it may have been the underframe/wheel paint that the LNER used? Many years ago, I added beading to a Farish corridor coach, and painted it teak; it wasn't that close to an ex GER coach, but it looked the part in a secondary train, and it did get comments of 'I never knew BR did that' at a couple of exhibitions.

Anyway, congratulations again on some excellent work.

Martyn

Thanks Martyn.

Yes, the pre-grouping stock lasted a long time, didn't it! I believe the last Howlden non-end vestibule didn't go out of revenue earning service until the mid 1950's and it wasn't until the early 1960's that the last GNR built Gresley stock finally went out of service. I do like the look of the ex-GER stock but I am yet to find a GN working with any incorporated into it. NER on the other hand is a different matter as several items of stock (mainly thirds) got cascaded down into GN secondary services.

Painting stock in plain 'teak' paint was fairly common. Apparently, if bleaching couldn't restore (or rather lighten) the natural colour of the wood, even teak stock was treated like this but only on very old coaches. In these cases no attempt to represent the training was attempted, yet more modern Gresley steel stock was grained and pre-war, the beading would be carefully represented - even down to shading it to give the impression of three dimensions!

Offline paulprice

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Re: Hadley Wood
« Reply #114 on: February 18, 2019, 08:08:35 PM »
What you really need is some decent Stanier stock :) just like a proper railway has :)

Offline Stevie DC

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Re: Hadley Wood
« Reply #115 on: February 18, 2019, 08:13:30 PM »
What you really need is some decent Stanier stock :) just like a proper railway has :)

Period, two or three?

Offline Train Waiting

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Re: Hadley Wood
« Reply #116 on: February 18, 2019, 08:17:12 PM »
Great to see an update on Hadley Wood, Steve.

Thank you very much.

John
'Why does the Disney Castle work so well?  Because it borrows from reality without ever slipping into it.'

(Acknowledgement: John Goodall Esq, Architectural Editor, 'Country Life'.)

The Table-Top Railway is an attempt to create, in British 'N' gauge,  a 'semi-scenic' railway in the old-fashioned style, reminiscent of the layouts of the 1920s to the 1950s.

Offline paulprice

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Re: Hadley Wood
« Reply #117 on: February 18, 2019, 08:23:32 PM »
What you really need is some decent Stanier stock :) just like a proper railway has :)

Period, two or three?

Period Three I think

Offline Stevie DC

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Re: Hadley Wood
« Reply #118 on: February 18, 2019, 08:32:38 PM »

Period Three I think

Flush sided stock, minimal lining.  :'(

I think the LMS's periods one and two stock was more characteristic with the beading and lining. Not wrong with a maroon coach in my opinion and I do have an opportunity to model a very few examples on Hadley Wood due to limited running rights for the LMS North London line suburban service to Potters Bar. However, that's going to depend on how much fiddle yard space I have left!

Offline paulprice

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Re: Hadley Wood
« Reply #119 on: February 18, 2019, 08:35:03 PM »

Period Three I think

Flush sided stock, minimal lining.  :'(

I think the LMS's periods one and two stock was more characteristic with the beading and lining. Not wrong with a maroon coach in my opinion and I do have an opportunity to model a very few examples on Hadley Wood due to limited running rights for the LMS North London line suburban service to Potters Bar. However, that's going to depend on how much fiddle yard space I have left!

I love the earlier period stuff, but I an on a lining diet

 

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