New Server: Thank you for your patience. We moved to our new server. Everything should be back to normal EXCEPT for the Gallery. We will have that restored shortly and will make an announcement. If you see something that is not working please report it here: Server Upgrade.

!!

Not Registered?

Welcome!  Please register to view all of the new posts and forum boards - some of which are hidden to guests.  After registering and gaining 10 posts you will be able to sell and buy items on our N'porium.

If you have any problems registering, then please check your spam filter before emailing us.  Hotmail users seem to find their emails in the Junk folder.


Thanks for reading,
The NGF Staff.

Author Topic: sound decoders are a luxury!  (Read 2309 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Bealman

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • N Gauge Society Number: 23151
  • Posts: 14491
  • Country: au
  • Gender: Male
  • Whoops back we go
    • Awards
Re: sound decoders are a luxury!
« Reply #30 on: April 16, 2018, 11:10:47 AM »
That's interesting. Thanks!  :thumbsup:
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

Offline Kaian

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 26669
  • Posts: 136
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: sound decoders are a luxury!
« Reply #31 on: April 16, 2018, 11:32:42 AM »
I have 2 sound fitted (Castle and Class 68) and they do add an extra level of enjoyment for me, at home. I can easily see it getting out of hand like at an exhibition where too much sound at the wrong volume for the content. I have 3 sound Pendolino's due to arrive soon to grow my sound collection.

To combine conversations a little, my two sons are more fascinated with the sound locos than the non-sound which keeps them interested. Adding sound is something which may bring younger modellers into the fray and keep them engaged.
Craig

Offline pauliebanger

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 138
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: sound decoders are a luxury!
« Reply #32 on: April 16, 2018, 11:54:20 AM »
As njee20 says, exhibition and home are very different environments. I've been firmly against N gauge sound for all of the reasons above, but mainly for the lack of bass, which is just physically not possible. But one of the things that can also be observed at an exhibition is the different quality of the sounds. Some are just repellantly awful, yet there are people around them cooing because there's a sound coming from something. I move away from these at speed, no matter what the quality of modelling.

That having been said, I was at the Stafford show last year when I heard a brilliant class 24 in 4mm from Sutton's Loco Works; so good in fact that I now have one. I also have two new sound fitted class 40s, and while they still suffer from the total absence of bass, they are just such good fun to drive. However, in an exhibition setting, I'd hate to have to stop them on a sixpence!

I don't know what rule covers exhibitions, but rule 1 definitely covers sound.

Both the models you mention have ZIMO decoders onboard, and which were designed with these sound decoders in mind. Hence why the sound works so well and the control functionality is so realistic.

When DCC and Sound is part of the design specification and everything is within the manufacturers' control it is both more economic than aftermarket additions and provides the most integrated package available.

Regarding stopping distances; each has a ZIMO on board, so F2 is the Brake Key. This not only provides the sound of brake application (if appropriate to the prototype) but also the progressive retardation force to slow your models, like a real loco brake, quick 'dabs' will provde small brake force, longer duration will provide progressively higher brake force. Hold F2 '0n' to get maximum 'emergency braking'*.

The brake force applied can be increased or decreased by changing the value in CV349 typical default setting would be around 6, lower values increase the brake force, higher values will decrease it (e.g.simulating less efficient brakes).

For best results, when moving reduce the thottle setting to zero and hold onto F2 (or for PowerCab users, Horn/Whistle button works well too).

You can also use the 'light engine' mode in each of these to provide greater brake force - light engines can slow more quickly than a heavy, unfitted (unbraked) train, so this is modelled within the sound projects. This is accessed with F5 for both the SLW Class 24 and the Farish Class 40.

*I am refering here to a controlled emergence stop as would be experienced with a real loco. Toy train stopping distances are obtained with the big red knob on your controller, or pulling out the power supply. LOL

Best regards,

Paul
« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 11:55:38 AM by pauliebanger »

Offline Shropshire Lad

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 92
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: sound decoders are a luxury!
« Reply #33 on: April 16, 2018, 12:20:25 PM »
I really enjoy 'driving' my models with sound chips rather than just controlling them. With regard to the sound they make its horses for courses, I've had actual train drivers think that I'm watching a video of a real train when they can only hear it! The TTS sounds are ok but not substantially different in operation from the Playmobil train that my grand daughter plays with.
Incidentally my wife thinks that it's hilarious that sound chips are a luxury which implies that model trains are a necessity 😁

Offline Chris Morris

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 939
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Ridgacre Branch & Little Aller Junction
    • Awards
Re: sound decoders are a luxury!
« Reply #34 on: April 16, 2018, 12:28:18 PM »

Incidentally my wife thinks that it's hilarious that sound chips are a luxury which implies that model trains are a necessity 😁

Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Offline JonHarbour

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 18965
  • 2mm Association Number: 4667
  • Posts: 430
  • Country: au
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: sound decoders are a luxury!
« Reply #35 on: April 17, 2018, 07:19:31 AM »
I've just embarked upon the journey into the word of sound, having bought a Farish Castle Class and fitted the speaker and Next18 sound decoder myself. I can see the point of view that it is a luxury, but Like Mike (red_death), I can see that the market has definitely sopken concerning sound! My impending Pendolino is a sound fitted option - it was a case of "go hard or go home" with this model as I believe it to be a landmark in British N Gauge.

When the time comes to finally construct my layout, it will feature computer control and one key aspect of computer control will be enabling / disabling sound on locos as they exit / enter the fiddleyard.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 07:22:09 AM by JonHarbour »
Still planning a layout...

Offline The Q

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 719
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: sound decoders are a luxury!
« Reply #36 on: April 17, 2018, 08:41:31 AM »
We had at our Exhibition last year a layout called Thunder Mountain, complete with thunder and lightening effects, along with american bell sounds and all sorts of other sounds. Whilst is was a well modelled railway and the public loved it, I would have hated to be alongside it all day at a show..

Offline pauliebanger

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 138
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: sound decoders are a luxury!
« Reply #37 on: April 17, 2018, 09:02:31 AM »
was a well modelled railway and the public loved it,

Is that not the purpose of exhibiting one's layout?

These are the people paying for the event, after all.

Job well done, I'd say.

Best regards,

Paul

Offline The Q

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 719
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: sound decoders are a luxury!
« Reply #38 on: April 17, 2018, 10:20:49 AM »
It was a job well done as far as the public was concerned, the problem was for the adjoining layout operators with the almost continous noise.

Like one multi operator layout I saw at a show somewhere, which had three signal men( as well as drivers) all using their bells as per real practice. A great demonstration of real railway practice for the public, but the layouts alongside were going insane with the constant ringing...
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 11:02:17 AM by The Q »

Offline Bealman

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • N Gauge Society Number: 23151
  • Posts: 14491
  • Country: au
  • Gender: Male
  • Whoops back we go
    • Awards
Re: sound decoders are a luxury!
« Reply #39 on: April 17, 2018, 10:49:33 AM »
Here in Australia, we probably don't have the volume of visitors to exhibitions that you folks have in the UK.

However, my experience is that most of the general public (especially those with kids) just want to see stuff moving, stay at a layout for 5 mins max and move on.

Therefore, all the sound effects on the layout almost go over their heads.

I can totally sympathise with exhibitors parked next to a sound installed layout for a day.

At one exhibition (in days when I was involved), I heard so many seagulls from the layout next door, I was wiping my shoulders, thinking I'd be covered in seagull droppings!
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

Offline njee20

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 22598
  • Posts: 3992
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: sound decoders are a luxury!
« Reply #40 on: April 17, 2018, 11:25:49 AM »
I would never stay to look a layout because it had sound, it doesn't not add to the experience, but it also doesn't really enhance it for me.

My 15 month old son on the other hand was fascinated by the sounds emanating from a layout at the weekend (Laramie for those who know it - O gauge roundhouse with large US steamers), so maybe we should market sound as something to encourage the younger generation!

Offline pauliebanger

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 138
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: sound decoders are a luxury!
« Reply #41 on: April 17, 2018, 11:54:23 AM »
It was a job well done as far as the public was concerned, the problem was for the adjoining layout operators with the almost continous noise.

Like one multi operator layout I saw at a show somewhere, which had three signal men( as well as drivers) all using their bells as per real practice. A great demonstration of real railway practice for the public, but the layouts alongside were going insane with the constant ringing...

From the perspective of the exhibition organiser, the prime purpose is to attract and satisfy the paying customers, not pander to the whims of those who willingly give up their time to provide the 'entertainment'.

I've done loads of exhibiting so I have every simpathy with those who are upset by noisy neighbours. I was once positioned next to a dealer selling railway DVDs. It was a constant barrage of loco sounds and American chime whistles from their TV playing sample loops.

But the stall holder had paid for his spot and was providing a service to the public. His products were DVDs which of course included sound, so I just tried to 'tune it out'. The brain is very adept at doing this, unless you consciously over-ride it by letting the annoyance 'get under your skin'.

Best regards,

Paul

Offline pauliebanger

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 138
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: sound decoders are a luxury!
« Reply #42 on: April 17, 2018, 12:13:33 PM »
I would never stay to look a layout because it had sound, it doesn't not add to the experience, but it also doesn't really enhance it for me.

My 15 month old son on the other hand was fascinated by the sounds emanating from a layout at the weekend (Laramie for those who know it - O gauge roundhouse with large US steamers), so maybe we should market sound as something to encourage the younger generation!

I am very much in the 'sound' camp.

As I have a different perspective, whenever I visit exhibitions I always walk straight past any layouts which do not have sound. I find them incomplete, only giving part of the overall scene.

Which, until recent years, included the majority of N gauge layouts*.

I have a technical interest in how sounds are being deployed and how operators are using them.

(If time allows, I will later seek out non-sound layouts which have other outstanding features).

* thankfully now changing with smaller sound decoders becoming more widely available and Farish R-T-R sound fitted models being introduced.

Best regards,

Paul

Offline njee20

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 22598
  • Posts: 3992
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: sound decoders are a luxury!
« Reply #43 on: April 17, 2018, 12:50:03 PM »
Fair enough, that seems very narrow minded to me, you must struggle at most shows frankly. I recall only one sound layout (as I mentioned) at the show I visited on Saturday, and unless you had an interest in large US steam locos moving very slowly in a depot situation then you'd be out of luck!

I like sound (done well) but as I said, a lack of it doesn't detract for me.

The "overall scene" is still lacking moving people, changing weather, wind, changing light etc. To dismiss layouts as incomplete out of hand because the trains aren't going 'chuff chuff' seems really odd to me.

Offline pauliebanger

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 138
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: sound decoders are a luxury!
« Reply #44 on: April 17, 2018, 01:32:57 PM »
Fair enough, that seems very narrow minded to me, you must struggle at most shows frankly. I recall only one sound layout (as I mentioned) at the show I visited on Saturday, and unless you had an interest in large US steam locos moving very slowly in a depot situation then you'd be out of luck!

I like sound (done well) but as I said, a lack of it doesn't detract for me.

The "overall scene" is still lacking moving people, changing weather, wind, changing light etc. To dismiss layouts as incomplete out of hand because the trains aren't going 'chuff chuff' seems really odd to me.

I was stating my position, not asking you or anyone to agree. Neither was I dismissing your expressed views, just giving an alternative position.

Why say 'fair enough' then continue in the same sentance to point out why you do not think that at all?

I think your 'narrow minded' accusation is totally uncalled for. I can assure you I am very open minded about many things, and have a tollerance of other peoples views even when they differ from my own.

I have a particular interest in sound, how it is deployed and how operators use it, as I made clear in my post. It's not at all unreasonable that I should give priority to visiting sound operated layouts, anymore than say N gauge modellers seeking out N gauge layouts for inspiration.

I would not visit an exhibition which did not feature a good selection of layouts with sound, especially DCC sound, as this would not meet my needs, so I never struggle in the way you suggest.

I would say that in my experience, layouts with sound account for around 40% at those I visit and the trend towards sound is on the increase.

Best regards,

Paul

 

Please Support Us!
December Goal: £55.00
Due Date: Dec 31
Total Receipts: £120.00
Above Goal: £65.00
Site Currency: GBP
218% 
December Donations


Advertise Here
anything