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Author Topic: Scrapping Eurostars  (Read 2002 times)

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Offline EtchedPixels

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Re: Scrapping Eurostars
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2018, 12:08:54 AM »
Yeah I know they have a few power cars but they need to preserve a unit - at least a short configuration IMHO
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Re: Scrapping Eurostars
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2018, 12:40:13 AM »
Yeah I know they have a few power cars but they need to preserve a unit - at least a short configuration IMHO

Why on earth preserve a whole unit? Other than the power/driving cars, most other carriages are difficult to differentiate between Eurostar/Voyager/Pendolino for your average Joe (or me, for that matter) except for liveries. They're all (to my eyes) just efficient, aerodynamic, generic coaches.

 ???
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Re: Scrapping Eurostars
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2018, 01:07:31 AM »
Are there any articulated coaches of any era in preservation/conservation in the UK? If not, then that would be one reason for conserving a couple of coaches.

PC + Standard + Bar-Buffet + Premier, with alongside them, a G Gauge model of a full 2 PCs + 18 coaches set. :thumbsup: One of the Class 9000 freight locos needs to be conserved also. And let's have a model of that in-train too. Both locos are an essential part of one of the most significant engineering achievements in UK history. Significant enough to move borders!
« Last Edit: February 03, 2018, 01:09:17 AM by RailGooner »
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Offline Atso

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Re: Scrapping Eurostars
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2018, 07:35:01 AM »
Are there any articulated coaches of any era in preservation/conservation in the UK? If not, then that would be one reason for conserving a couple of coaches.

ATP and LNER quad set off the top of my head.

I'm not a massive fan of the modern railway but do like the Eurostars and agree that one should be marked for preservation.

Offline NeMo

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Re: Scrapping Eurostars
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2018, 09:11:24 AM »
Efficient and comfortable it may well have been, but to me it has no soul. Steam engines have a living, breathing soul and have a presence, as too do some (I can't believe I'm saying this!) diesel locos.
Feel free to hate me, I can take it.

The problem with this is that it's exactly how people felt about the prototype and first generation diesels during the 1960s and early 70s. None of the prototypes were saved as far as I know -- it seems incredible that 10001 for example wasn't cut up until 1968, and D601 survived, more or less, until 1980! But at the time people thought diesels were going to be around forever, and besides, preserving steam was more important...

But then again, any number of classic steam locomotives were lost in the 40s and 50s for exactly the same reason. Plenty of steam around, no real hurry, and people didn't think preserving steam locomotives was really practical outside of the national collection and perhaps one or two tank engines on private lines.

Going back into the 1930s, we lost even more when the likes of Churchward and Stanier had 'clear outs' of the few old (often Victorian) locos that the larger 'works' like Swindon and Derby had been keeping in unofficial preservation. Churchward had gotten rid of the last two broad gauge locos in existence, while Stanier got rid of a number of Kirtley, Johnson and other designs that we would now see as literally irreplaceable.

Like you, I personally couldn't give a rip about the Eurostars. But curating a museum collection is about communicating with the future, not the 'now'. It would strike me as insane if, at the very least, a power car hadn't, and a single coach doesn't, end up in the NRM. The Channel Tunnel was surely a huge achievement in Anglo-French engineering and politics, and to preserve something from the initial stages that people in the future can experience has to be a priority.

Cheers, NeMo

Offline exmouthcraig

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Re: Scrapping Eurostars
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2018, 10:29:55 AM »
The NRM has one of the  the muck trucks used for hauling all the spoil away from the construction of the tunnel and a small piece about the infrastructure that was created just to build the tunnel.

It IS a magnificent piece of engineering that we should remain proud of. The disappointing thing about the tunnel is there's not a huge amount of information available about it and the story behind it collated together.

Surely there's a demand for a museum to be built that can tell the historical story behind all the attempts the money the decisions the construction the stock that was built (wasn't the class 92???? (IIRC) built purely to run freight through only for it to sit in sidings some years later??) 

A full working museum with the HUGE n gauge layout built as the centre piece complete with a FULL rake of eurostar set??

Maybe just wishful thinking but seems to me like a damn good idea


Offline LeftToMyOwnDevices

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Re: Scrapping Eurostars
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2018, 04:15:50 PM »
A full working museum with the HUGE n gauge layout built as the centre piece complete with a FULL rake of eurostar set??

Maybe just wishful thinking but seems to me like a damn good idea

Does anyone remember the Folkestone Eurotunnel Information Centre that was built opposite (what is now) the Cheriton Eurotunnel Terminal...?

I remember visiting it - if only to see and admire the N Gauge layout that they had there, which was a representation of what it would be, when complete. I seem to recall the line went under a goldfish tank (to represent the Channel) to the Calais Terminal. :laugh3:

Not exactly sure what happened to that N Gauge layout, but I did hear someone say that the layout was 'life-expired' by the time the Information Centre closed (and the real thing had opened).

I am quite upset that the original Eurostar units are being scrapped. So upset that I am seriously tempted to buy a Kato set (in original livery) of the 8-car set, plus two 4-car extension packs. That should give me a Regional Eurostar set, I believe.

There are various issues around the scrapping: one is that as Eurostar own them outright, they don't want them falling into 'enemy' hands. In other words, they don't want another operator getting hold of them and operating a competing service. :o

I understand that they are retaining a handful of them. Think these might be the ones that SNCF 'hot-wired' to operate on 1.5kV DC overhead. That enabled them to operate the Ski Service and other services to the South of France. 8)

The real reason for the retention of (some of) these original Eurostar units is that they are the only way that they can serve Ashford International. Apparently, the platforms there are only fitted with AWS/TPWS signalling. The newer Eurostar units are not fitted with this (they only have TVM430, plus the relevant SNCF/SNCB systems). I have heard that they are now going to fit TVM430 to the platforms at Ashford International, so that could mean that the whole lot will go for scrap... :'(

Whilst it would be lovely to preserve a whole unit, I think that is going to be seriously impractical, for a variety of reasons. :( The most we can expect is the power cars (as at the NRM and elsewhere). It would be nice to keep the leading car, as that actually has traction motors in it - and would give a representation of how they squeezed a TGV design into the British Loading gauge. Now that's quite a feat of engineering...! :D

Hope this information helps - and I'm sure others might correct any inaccuracies in any of the above.

Meanwhile, you all have my condolences for the scrapping of these unique trains. Now, where's that Train Trax pop-up, to order that Kato set... ;)

Charles.
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Offline njee20

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Re: Scrapping Eurostars
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2018, 04:29:31 PM »
There was an exhibition centre at Folkestone, featuring CJM LeShuttle trains and Kato Eurostars, dunno what happened to it, think it closed soon after the tunnel opened ironically.

You could say it’s a bit of a failure - passenger numbers were dropping (dunno if they still are), freight never hit the targets, we never got the Nightstar Sleeper services. 92s did/do operate through the tunnel, but DB have actually lost the licences to use them on domestic routes I understand, but then they’re complex locos and there’s no shortage of traction.

Would be good to see a short rake saved though certainly.

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Re: Scrapping Eurostars
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2018, 04:40:15 PM »
..
 Does anyone remember the Folkestone Eurotunnel Information Centre that was built opposite (what is now) the Cheriton Eurotunnel Terminal...?
...

Yes, I do. I never got to see it in the flesh, just magazine pictures. Weren't CJM heavily involved? Wasn't that how the CJM Class 9000 and wagon kits came to be?
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Offline njee20

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Re: Scrapping Eurostars
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2018, 06:42:15 PM »
Yep, exactly.

Offline LeftToMyOwnDevices

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Re: Scrapping Eurostars
« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2018, 07:39:15 PM »
There was an exhibition centre at Folkestone, featuring CJM LeShuttle trains and Kato Eurostars, dunno what happened to it, think it closed soon after the tunnel opened ironically.

I believe that may have been the intention, all along.
The Information Centre overlooked the actual site (and had a viewing deck for that purpose, if I recall correctly).

There was quite a need to explain to Joe Public what on earth that massive building site was in aid of. We all knew what was being built, but we were the minority... :D

You could say it’s a bit of a failure - passenger numbers were dropping (dunno if they still are), freight never hit the targets, we never got the Nightstar Sleeper services. 92s did/do operate through the tunnel, but DB have actually lost the licences to use them on domestic routes I understand, but then they’re complex locos and there’s no shortage of traction.

Oh I know, it's all too sad for words. :(
I was working for Freightliners Ltd (as was, in 1988-9) as it was merged into Railfreight Distribution (RfD), with so much real, genuine hope for the opening of the forthcoming Channel Tunnel. :-[

When I build my 'ultimate' N Gauge layout, I want to show something of what could have been... Hence I have so many Cargowaggens (Dapol already; and twins on order from Revolution). I am also amassing lots of container wagons: Farish, Dapol and others (KFAs...!). Might just get that Kato (Regional) Eurostar. ;)

As for the Class 92, I was on way to the Longfield show (Erith MRS) when I caught a sight of a Class 92 running light engine in the opposite direction...! :goggleeyes: It was on the four-track section between Bromley South and Swanley, so on Third Rail 750dc. I had thought they were effectively banned from that now, according to a DB Class 92 driver I spoke to. :confused1: For those interested, it was 'Couperin' in original RfD Triple Grey. Yes, I have 4 of them on order from our friends at Revolution... :)

Charles.
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Re: Scrapping Eurostars
« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2018, 08:10:58 PM »
92044 is operated by GBRF, who do still have the relevant licences to use them on normal domestic routes. It’s DBS who don’t.

Offline PostModN66

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Re: Scrapping Eurostars
« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2018, 09:02:37 PM »
There was an exhibition centre at Folkestone, featuring CJM LeShuttle trains and Kato Eurostars, dunno what happened to it, think it closed soon after the tunnel opened ironically.

I’ve got one of the CJM class 92s from it.

Cheers Jon :)
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Re: Scrapping Eurostars
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2018, 08:08:07 AM »
The other week I heard on the grape vine that one of the original Eurostars was being dragged through a local station on its way to the scrap yard.

Not wanting to miss the opportunity to document its last journey I grabbed the video camera and camped out on the platform in the small hours of a Saturday morning



I also managed to capture the mail train running through...  Hope you enjoy the video

Malc
Its not related to this, but I could imagine the Intercity 225s, 125s, and Class 90s in the scrapyard after the Japanese trains take over.

Offline ntpntpntp

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Re: Scrapping Eurostars
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2018, 09:04:17 AM »
There was an exhibition centre at Folkestone, featuring CJM LeShuttle trains and Kato Eurostars, dunno what happened to it, think it closed soon after the tunnel opened ironically.

The Folkestone end of the layout is still running at a little museum at Peene right next to the terminal's reverse loop.  I have a couple of bits and pieces of stock (worn-out Kato TGV parts etc.)

The exhibition centre building still exists, not exactly sure what it's used for right now (it was LoveWorld -
 "God's Embassy" at one point!)

My offices are in the former call centre building so I have a view of the terminal.
Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!

 

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