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Author Topic: Nine Mile Hill (continued)  (Read 2485 times)

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Offline keithbythe sea

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Re: Nine Mile Hill (continued)
« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2020, 07:22:32 AM »
:hellosign:  :greatpicturessign:
Another vote for option 1
    stay safe regards Derek

And another.

Offline Train Waiting

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Re: Nine Mile Hill (continued)
« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2020, 09:28:21 AM »
Interesting question, thank you, Chris.

There certainly were lots of ungated crossings on lines going to quaysides and industrial sidings.  Normally these were controlled by a flagman; typically the shunter on duty for the movement.  I looked at some of your earlier photographs to get a wider view and concluded that both the line and the road were going to the quay and goods yard.  The ungated crossing would add a bit of variety to the scene and differentiate the main line from this goods line.

However, Martin makes a really helpful point regarding roads dominating the scene in option 2.  I think this is especially important as the road to the quay is straight.  In option 1, the canalside pub, always an agreeable feature, would add a focus to the scene and the roads would, I think, take a supporting rather than dominant role.  The signalman won't like me for this, but, on balance, my preference is option 1 with the two gated level crossings.

Best wishes.

John   

'Why does the Disney Castle work so well?  Because it borrows from reality without ever slipping into it.'

(Acknowledgement: John Goodall Esq, Architectural Editor, 'Country Life'.)

The Table-Top Railway is an attempt to create, in British 'N' gauge,  a 'semi-scenic' railway in the old-fashioned style, reminiscent of the layouts of the 1930s to the 1950s.

For the made-up background to the railway and list of characters, please see here: https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=38281.msg607991#msg607991

Offline Papyrus

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Re: Nine Mile Hill (continued)
« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2020, 02:56:33 PM »
Interesting replies - thank you all!

Interesting especially as I was looking at it again last night and beginning to come down in favour of option 2! However, I take all your points on board, and I think Martin's argument makes sense. Option 1 was the original plan, but I wasn't sure how prototypical it would be to have two level crossings so close together. On the subject of which...

The signalman won't like me for this, but, on balance, my preference is option 1 with the two gated level crossings.


Assuming such an arrangement existed in the real world (and we are in the period 1945-1960 here), would one signal man/crossing keeper have manned both crossings, or would there be one for each, or say one crossing keeper looking after one crossing and the other covered by the signalman?

Incidentally, Mike @Nbodger , don't worry, the crossing won't be over the slip, and the bend in the road won't be quite that sharp! It was definitely just a rough layout, not the final version!

Cheers,

Chris
"Outside of a dog, a book is probably man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."  Groucho Marx

Offline Train Waiting

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Re: Nine Mile Hill (continued)
« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2020, 07:37:21 PM »

Assuming such an arrangement existed in the real world (and we are in the period 1945-1960 here), would one signal man/crossing keeper have manned both crossings, or would there be one for each, or say one crossing keeper looking after one crossing and the other covered by the signalman?

Probably a couple of things to consider, Chris.

The first one is where is your signal box going to be?

The second is that our models normally compress distance.  If we work on the assumption that you are doing a bit of that, I'd suggest the signal box be adjacent to the main road crossing and the quay/yard road level crossing be operated by a gateman under the supervision of the signalman.

From memory, I can't think of a signalman operating two level crossings over different roads (but I'd love to see an example). 

That's in your era, of course!  Queen Adelaide in the present day is a fascinating example.

Best wishes.

John 
'Why does the Disney Castle work so well?  Because it borrows from reality without ever slipping into it.'

(Acknowledgement: John Goodall Esq, Architectural Editor, 'Country Life'.)

The Table-Top Railway is an attempt to create, in British 'N' gauge,  a 'semi-scenic' railway in the old-fashioned style, reminiscent of the layouts of the 1930s to the 1950s.

For the made-up background to the railway and list of characters, please see here: https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=38281.msg607991#msg607991

Offline port perran

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Re: Nine Mile Hill (continued)
« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2020, 07:46:47 PM »

Assuming such an arrangement existed in the real world (and we are in the period 1945-1960 here), would one signal man/crossing keeper have manned both crossings, or would there be one for each, or say one crossing keeper looking after one crossing and the other covered by the signalman?



From memory, I can't think of a signalman operating two level crossings over different roads (but I'd love to see an example). 



Chris, apologies for butting in on your thread but in reply to John.
It probably doesnít count but I believe that the level crossing over Roskear Road on the Roskear Branch just East of Camborne station came under the auspices of Camborne signal box. However, the crossing on the branch was, I believe, manually operated.
I think Camborne box was/is responsible for three level crossings on the main line (Truro to Penzance) within 400 yards of each other.

Martin
Iíll get round to fixing it drekkly me Ďansome.

Offline Papyrus

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Re: Nine Mile Hill (continued)
« Reply #35 on: August 08, 2020, 11:32:31 AM »

The first one is where is your signal box going to be?

The second is that our models normally compress distance.  If we work on the assumption that you are doing a bit of that, I'd suggest the signal box be adjacent to the main road crossing and the quay/yard road level crossing be operated by a gateman under the supervision of the signalman.

From memory, I can't think of a signalman operating two level crossings over different roads (but I'd love to see an example). 

That's in your era, of course!  Queen Adelaide in the present day is a fascinating example.


The original plan was to have the signal box on the end of the station platform, as I've temporarily positioned it in the photos. However, I think you are right and adjacent to the slip might be a better plan.

Is that the Queen Adelaide near Ely or is there another one? tell me more!


Chris, apologies for butting in on your thread but in reply to John.

Martin


No apology needed - it's all interesting information!

Cheers,

Chris
"Outside of a dog, a book is probably man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."  Groucho Marx

Offline Train Waiting

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Re: Nine Mile Hill (continued)
« Reply #36 on: August 08, 2020, 01:25:19 PM »
That's the one, Chris.  Just down from Ely North Junction.  Three level crossings over the same road.  On three different railway lines!

All the best.

John
'Why does the Disney Castle work so well?  Because it borrows from reality without ever slipping into it.'

(Acknowledgement: John Goodall Esq, Architectural Editor, 'Country Life'.)

The Table-Top Railway is an attempt to create, in British 'N' gauge,  a 'semi-scenic' railway in the old-fashioned style, reminiscent of the layouts of the 1930s to the 1950s.

For the made-up background to the railway and list of characters, please see here: https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=38281.msg607991#msg607991

Offline Papyrus

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Re: Nine Mile Hill (continued)
« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2020, 06:07:23 PM »
And just when I thought it was all going so well.



I've discovered a basic flaw in my layout. I was mentally running trains round the circuit when I came to the discovery, perhaps obvious in hindsight, that the reversing loop only works in one direction. A train leaving the station in an easterly direction can go round the loop and end up facing the opposite way. A train leaving westerly can only go round and round. As I only intend running a few trains at any one time this might not matter but it does mean that eventually everything will end up facing the same way.

It's too late to alter the layout even if I could work out a new plan - it's half ballasted and scenery has been started. It looks like I'm going to have to resort to fiddle-yard tactics and reverse the train off-scene. This is a bit of a compromise for me - I don't like fiddle yards much and prefer train movements to be carried out in the scenic area.

Ah well. It's only playing trains, innit?

Cheers,

Chris
"Outside of a dog, a book is probably man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."  Groucho Marx

Offline impinabox

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Re: Nine Mile Hill (continued)
« Reply #38 on: September 07, 2020, 11:28:14 PM »
Probably depends where the ballast and scenery is but could you not move the junction in the middle right (east?) a bit and add another point to bring a track down  to the passing loop at the bottom?
Mike

If it's worth doing, it's worth doing badly.

Current layout project: Halfway - https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=48537.0

Offline Papyrus

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Re: Nine Mile Hill (continued)
« Reply #39 on: September 09, 2020, 02:29:51 PM »
Thanks for the suggestion. I've been thinking over various options and something along the lines of your idea is a definite possibility. That area is partly scenicked but not ballasted, so I think I can cobble something together even though it might be prototypically dubious...

More soon, I hope.

Cheers,

Chris
"Outside of a dog, a book is probably man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."  Groucho Marx

Offline Papyrus

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Re: Nine Mile Hill (continued)
« Reply #40 on: September 10, 2020, 12:19:00 PM »
After much thinking and beard-stroking and playing around with bits of track, I've come to the conclusion that re-configuring the reversing loop is not possible. However, I think the main issue is the short platform section at the top of the plan. At present, a train can leave from here but can never get back in again without reversing. So I've decided to turn the station round 180o and run the line into the short platform off the line into the quayside, thusly:




This will of course mean more wiring (noooooooo....) and soldering (NOOOOOOOO.........) but be strong, Christopher, you can do this. It will also mean hacking up the platforms which are stuck down. I will probably leave the existing siding in place - I may even extend it into a factory of some kind.

It will also mean that the earlier discussions on the road layout are now completely meaningless, but I have a cunning plan...

Cheers,

Chris
"Outside of a dog, a book is probably man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."  Groucho Marx

Offline acook

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Re: Nine Mile Hill (continued)
« Reply #41 on: September 11, 2020, 08:58:54 PM »
How about a LH point between the two bridges on the elevated line at the bottom, and a connecting line across running on the edge of the cutting (which may need extendingto be a retaining wall), and curving down and around to another LH point at the bottom of the elevated curve.
You could have a halt or something to justify stopping to reverse polarity.

Cheers
Alan

Offline Papyrus

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Re: Nine Mile Hill (continued)
« Reply #42 on: September 12, 2020, 12:18:01 PM »
Thanks for the idea, Alan. I did consider a solution along the lines you suggest but I think it will require more rewiring and carnage to the scenery than the problem justifies. I'm very much of the 'Keep It Simple, Stupid' school of thought. The way I intend to go won't involve any more than a bit of track-laying, one additional power feed and one more point motor. Oh, and amending the aforesaid station platforms. Onwards and upwards...

Cheers,

Chris
"Outside of a dog, a book is probably man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."  Groucho Marx

 

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