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Author Topic: Contemporary NW (Wigan Wallgate and North Western)  (Read 10999 times)

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Online jpendle

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Re: Contemporary NW (Wigan Wallgate and North Western)
« Reply #150 on: September 24, 2019, 02:45:10 PM »
Thanks for the comments.

Even with 'all that space' I'm still constrained as to what can be done. If I'd left the points in the plan to allow access to Springs Branch depot then that would have added 2 or 3 feet more to that part of the plan. Then the far side of the flyunder would have emerged on the curve at the end of the run and the various junctions that make up the ladder that reduces the 6 tracks back to two would have all had to be on the 'return stretch' back down the shed. I would also have needed a bigger space between adjacent baseboards to allow for the depot itself. So I've opted for less stuff to give longer mainline runs.

The golden rule seems to be that no matter how much space you have, it is never enough to fit everything in that you want!

Now Springs Branch depot may re-appear but in a different location, but that depends on Revolution or someone bring out some CL331's and CL195's as I think the 331's will be serviced at the 'new' depot. I'm not sure how Springs Branch would work otherwise.

But it's all about compromise and I'm sure I'll work something out.

Regards,

John P
Check out my layout thread.

Contemporary NW (Wigan Wallgate and North Western)

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=39501.msg476247#msg476247

Offline crewearpley40

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Re: Contemporary NW (Wigan Wallgate and North Western)
« Reply #151 on: September 24, 2019, 03:17:33 PM »
no class 08, 25, 31, 40, 47 were all seen on that depot in my day. good luck with this exciting project !!!!

Online Graham

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Re: Contemporary NW (Wigan Wallgate and North Western)
« Reply #152 on: September 24, 2019, 11:55:50 PM »
just caught up on this, looking good.

Offline acko22

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Re: Contemporary NW (Wigan Wallgate and North Western)
« Reply #153 on: September 25, 2019, 12:10:51 AM »
The golden rule seems to be that no matter how much space you have, it is never enough to fit everything in that you want!

Well there is truth about modelling, never enough space  :laughabovepost:

Now Springs Branch depot may re-appear but in a different location, but that depends on Revolution or someone bring out some CL331's and CL195's as I think the 331's will be serviced at the 'new' depot. I'm not sure how Springs Branch would work otherwise.

I know that while the depot has been built for the widespread introduction of the CAF units but it isn't finished yet, however "should" be by late November, but they have ran in as trails 319s and 150 sets to check the rail alignments and that the curves in the sidings don't cause issues when it is opened.
As to the DB side if you after ready to run items that could be a lot more problematic! There are 3 working departments on site, the Wagon Maintenance section who will repair the DB wagon fleet including heavy maintenance.
The  break down section who man and maintain the emergency crane (Network Rail owned 75t Cowdons Sheldon rail crane) based at Wigan in addition it is where all 4 of the in service cranes undergo heavy maintenance and annual winch testing (I was there in June and saw 2 of the cranes undergoing these tests.
The final section is the MPV section with Wigan being one of the dedicated sites to maintain and prepare the sets including swapping over the modules for each season.

So to truly replicate Springs Branch in its current incarnation will honestly require a good few models not currently on the market  :confused1: unless you just sided with depicting the DB section with only the Wagon Maintenance section then its just a question, can you short term at least get away with units like the 150, 156, 158, 319 (eventually) while hoping the 195 and 331 appear?

Online jpendle

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Re: Contemporary NW (Wigan Wallgate and North Western)
« Reply #154 on: October 06, 2019, 04:40:54 PM »
I've been cracking on with baseboards and some more track laying.

I added an 8 foot board to allow me to continue with the tracks from the storage yards and the Westhoughton line. At this point I'll be using a RH point and a single slip to allow trains to access the single line that in reality connects the Liverpool Manchester Chat Moss line to the WCML at Golborne junction. The plan has 3 points in a ladder but as I have a redundant single slip I thought I'd save some money and space and reuse it. Then a couple of feet later the tracks swing to the right over the Westhoughton line to form the 2 track WCML approaching Golborne Junction.





Then I finished off the freight flyunder gradients and covered them with plaster bandage and gave them a coat of brown primer, it's more red/brown but it'll do.
I added the track as well as I didn't want to continue the main line without getting this done first.

I then started a scratch build of the bridge that takes the fast and slow lines over the freight lines. As far as I can tell from a drivers eye view and Google Earth this is a plain concrete deck. The sides seem to be a low (1 foot high) concrete base with metal railings. The freight lines themselves seem to run through a concrete box structure which extends either side of the bridge deck. I've started off with a balsa deck and sides and given it a coat of grey primer. I'll probably build the concrete box substructure out of plastic card and then source some suitable metal railings to finish off the bridge deck.

I've also been testing track with a Pendolino. A Class68 was used to check clearances on the flyunder.









Now I've got the dreaded 4 track lifting section to build. cos, as you might have noticed, I've been painting myself into a corner. Based on my previous two track lifting section this one will be on baseboards constructed specifically to take all the bits and pieces needed.

I've also ordered more points and a box of track from Hattons as I'm down to my last 8 pieces.

Regards,

John P
Check out my layout thread.

Contemporary NW (Wigan Wallgate and North Western)

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=39501.msg476247#msg476247

Offline crewearpley40

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Re: Contemporary NW (Wigan Wallgate and North Western)
« Reply #155 on: October 06, 2019, 04:44:08 PM »
looking very impressive john, sure railgooner will be impressed as much as i am. i remember Golborne from a long time ago though south of dallam towards warrington, arpley is my territory. how did you create the westhoughton flyover please john ?
« Last Edit: October 06, 2019, 04:50:42 PM by crewearpley40 »

Offline njee20

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Re: Contemporary NW (Wigan Wallgate and North Western)
« Reply #156 on: October 06, 2019, 04:52:31 PM »
Do love a good flyover, that’ll look great with stuff zooming through! 

Offline crewearpley40

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Re: Contemporary NW (Wigan Wallgate and North Western)
« Reply #157 on: October 06, 2019, 04:56:47 PM »
mainly pacers, 150s, 156s but i have heard of class 20 and class 31 hauling a 1P06 0827 Birmingham New Street to Blackpool diverted service, trundling over the Pendelinos speeding on the WCML , sorry Ac electrics in my day !

Online jpendle

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Re: Contemporary NW (Wigan Wallgate and North Western)
« Reply #158 on: October 06, 2019, 05:20:50 PM »
Thanks guys.

It'll mainly be freight going under as they are the freight lines. The whole thing was made using Woodland Scenics 2% inclines, which I have found are the steepest you can get away with, with long trains, the bridge is balsa.

Now that I've done away with Springs Branch depot the freight lines are redundant, so I'm having a rethink about the plan to add some justification for the flyunder. The aggregate terminal on the old Kelbit sidings, or maybe a repositioned depot are some ideas.

I plan on finishing the Fast lines and then looking at what space is available for extras.

John P
Check out my layout thread.

Contemporary NW (Wigan Wallgate and North Western)

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=39501.msg476247#msg476247

Offline crewearpley40

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Re: Contemporary NW (Wigan Wallgate and North Western)
« Reply #159 on: October 06, 2019, 05:26:24 PM »
sounds good


there was / is  a rail connected freight terminal on this section, serving the Potter Logistics depot at the Knowsley Industrial Park near Kirkby line if interested, also

https://www.derbysulzers.com/97405horwich86.jpg


97405 and its train of vans makes a colourful view at Horwich Works on October 3rd 1986 whilst working the 6P82. The job had started at Warrington and headed up to Wigan, running round here then on to Metal Box at Westhoughton, on to Lostock Junction for a run round, then on to Horwich Works. From here it was on to Chorley ROF, then a run round at Preston and back to Springs Branch where the crew were relieved, with the train heading back to Warrington - an all day job.   great if fancy the VEAs



Offline RailGooner

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Re: Contemporary NW (Wigan Wallgate and North Western)
« Reply #160 on: October 06, 2019, 05:38:14 PM »
Impossible not to be impressed by such an opus, even unfinished. :heart2:

Your description of the freight line flyover/underpass John, sounds like a reasonably modern construction. NR's preferred method these days is to drop precast concrete box sections into a cut, to form the underpass. Then drop precast concrete deck sections on top. Sort of modern take on cut-and-cover which drastically reduces the length of possessions.
“We are indebted to those soldiers who served with courage and distinction to bring peace to Northern Ireland,” UK Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson said. “The welfare of our former service personnel is of the utmost importance.”

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Offline RailGooner

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Re: Contemporary NW (Wigan Wallgate and North Western)
« Reply #161 on: October 06, 2019, 05:45:39 PM »
..
 Metal Box at Westhoughton,
...

Ahh yes, I remember that, next to Franny Lee's loo roll factory. :moony:
“We are indebted to those soldiers who served with courage and distinction to bring peace to Northern Ireland,” UK Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson said. “The welfare of our former service personnel is of the utmost importance.”

Per Ardua ad Astra | Mens Agitat Molem | Victoria Concordia Crescit | Utrinque Paratus | Caveat lector

Offline njee20

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Re: Contemporary NW (Wigan Wallgate and North Western)
« Reply #162 on: October 06, 2019, 05:47:28 PM »
How long are your freights going to be? Every time I open the thread I’m disgustingly jealous of your space and picture monstrous container rakes!

Online jpendle

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Re: Contemporary NW (Wigan Wallgate and North Western)
« Reply #163 on: October 06, 2019, 08:32:47 PM »
Unfortunately the Metal Box siding, along with the factory has long gone and is now houses.

I plan on adding a waste terminal based on the current one at Knowsley and I plan on running the Knowsley to Wilton BinLiner. I have a rake of KFA's on order, but I will have to make the 30' blue boxes myself though.

This train is the first freight in many years to use the Atherton line, it runs daily with empties from Man Vic through Wallgate to Knowsley. On the loaded return working, it heads through Wallgate and then south on the WCML through Warrington and then works it's way around the south side of Manchester.

I asked why has this routing on RMWEB and got just two responses, saying that perhaps the climb up at Miles Platting bank was being avoided.

If anyone here has any ideas I'd like to hear them.

Course if I'd asked about freight at Wigan Central in 1928 I would have got at least a hundred answers!!!!!!!

As far as train length goes it will depend on the loco, A Farish 66 or 60 can handle 18 HTA's on a 2% gradient, so I'm thinking a max of around 20 bogie wagons. Of course if I confine the longest trains to the flat then I can probably make up a larger formation.

I think the longest train that I will run with a single engine will probably be the Caledonian sleeper, 16 MK5a coaches and a CL92. But I'm still saving my pennies for the MK5a's.

I had thought about turning the lights off and pretending that a 60 with 16 TEA's was the sleeper, in the dark I don't think anyone would notice  :D

It also begs the question as to why do I need the sleeper coaches at all?? It's always dark when they run through Wigan, so they'll be really hard to see.

Anyway I'm off to the shed to make the first baseboard for the lifting section.

Regards,

John P
Check out my layout thread.

Contemporary NW (Wigan Wallgate and North Western)

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=39501.msg476247#msg476247

Offline crewearpley40

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Re: Contemporary NW (Wigan Wallgate and North Western)
« Reply #164 on: October 06, 2019, 08:36:25 PM »
re :

the service running via WCML through Warrington and then works it's way around the south side of Manchester.

I asked why has this routing on RMWEB and got just two responses, saying that perhaps the climb up at Miles Platting bank was being avoided. im pretty sure this is the reason. However,


by spring 2017 nine weekly trains were scheduled to run from Knowsley (two on Mondays to Thursdays and one on Friday) using DB Cargo Class 66 haulage and formed of up to 20 FCA wagons.

The loaded trains out of Knowsley are routed south along the West Coast Main Line from Wigan as far as Hartford LNW Junction, before they also traverse the mid-Cheshire line and the eastern environs of Manchester to join the Calder Valley route at Brewery Junction, thus avoiding the steep climb up Miles Platting bank from Manchester Victoria.

However, the empty trains take the more direct route down the bank and through Manchester Victoria station before heading along either the former L&Y line via Swinton, Atherton and Crow Nest Junction to reach Wigan, or else continuing from Victoria along the old LNW line through Eccles to join the WCML via Parkside Junction and Golborne Junction.

The early morning empties have to be sent via Eccles as the signal boxes on the former L&Y route do not open until 06.00.

https://www.therailwayhub.co.uk/3643/freight-focus-fragrant-world-of-the-binliner/



but you have some pretty solid plans john


look forward to seeing / hearing more on this lovely project
« Last Edit: October 06, 2019, 08:43:53 PM by crewearpley40 »

 

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