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Author Topic: Dapol Standards dropping?  (Read 6943 times)

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Offline Chris Morris

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Re: Dapol Standards dropping?
« Reply #30 on: April 12, 2018, 05:37:41 PM »
All of my N gauge locos whether Dapol of Farish work fine. None have been returned. I do carry out maintenance when required as you would expect with anything that has moving parts.

The more they run the better they run.

Offline Portpatrick

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Re: Dapol Standards dropping?
« Reply #31 on: April 12, 2018, 06:03:14 PM »
All of my N gauge locos whether Dapol of Farish work fine. None have been returned. I do carry out maintenance when required as you would expect with anything that has moving parts.

The more they run the better they run.

Important we get balance by hearing from those who have not had issues. Which is why I added that I have not had trouble with diesels.  Be fair.  Running in and maintenance according to instructions is crucial.  I am meticulous on the first.  Though rather like modern cars, I do blanch at the complexity and delicacy of dismantling sometimes needed to oil what we are told to oil.  Sadly gone are the days where removal of one or two nice large 8BA screws gave you access to all you usually needed.  At one time I did my own car maintenance.  No way these days.  Similar problem. 

A certain amount Also depends on what we regard as tolerable especially in terms of wobble and noise.  I'll admit I will put up with a little of the first and I a not bothered by noise, esp ii a diesel, if running is still smooth and controllable.  And I have overlooked early failure of a diesel's lights. 

Offline Portpatrick

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Re: Dapol Standards dropping?
« Reply #32 on: April 12, 2018, 06:14:27 PM »



Being an authorised Dapol retailer shouldn't you be raising this with their distributor or directly with Dapol rather than airing it on a public forum. Not very professional!
[/quote]

As a retailer, yes he takes up the issue directly with his distributer/Dapol.  But his issues are illustrative of the problems faced by a retailer who is concerned that his customers receive quality products.  If we had bought the offending article from him we would take it back.  I see this forum as providing a place where all parties involved in the hobby can air their insights and issues from which we can hopefully all gain a better understanding of issues we each face.  To my mid a retailer is as fully justified in querying products which he feels do not meet standards as any of us.  Here is a retailer who is working for us.

Offline Chris Morris

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Re: Dapol Standards dropping?
« Reply #33 on: April 12, 2018, 06:24:49 PM »
Surely the 38xx originally mentioned was made many years ago so can't be looked upon as recent production. Some of both Dapol and Farish stock will have been in store for a long time.

Wobble is not acceptable. I hear this is an issue on some batches of locos. Mine seem to get quieter with running.

The big problem for both Dapol and Farish is that British outline N gauge models are just too small in volume to give them much clout over the manufacturers. Its rather like in the automotive industry. BMW can force all sorts of things on most of their suppliers because the suppliers can't afford to put orders for more work from BMW at risk. When dealing with Bosch however, who are bigger and more powerful than BMW, the boot is on the other foot and BMW cannot really force anything onto Bosch. I know this because I have seen it happening. I have heard that all too often the Chinese factories making items for both Dapol and Farish (despite the family connection) do not follow instructions given to them by Dapol or Farish; they don't need to because the small British volumes means the business is not all that important to the factories and they know there aren't many other places for Dapol to send their business. Farish of course has no choice as to where it buys from.

Offline joe cassidy

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Re: Dapol Standards dropping?
« Reply #34 on: April 12, 2018, 06:50:56 PM »
I have the following Dapol locos:

M7
B17
A3
A4

All have worked perfectly from out of the box.

The M7 and the B17 have hit the deck and survived with only superficial injuries.

My only criticism of Dapol locos vs Farish is that the finish of the Dapol locos has been more toy-like than the Farish, except for the A4.

I have the valanced A4 "Empire of India" in garter blue livery with red wheels and it is my favourite loco.

I now challenge Farish to produce a streamlined Princess/Coronation to the same standard.

Best regards,


Joe

Offline Bob G

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Re: Dapol Standards dropping?
« Reply #35 on: April 12, 2018, 07:11:17 PM »
If you look at the price for static models in other collecting arenas, like cars and planes, and then say "OK i have a beautifully detailed model of a **** class locomotive" and then by magic it works, then i treat that as a bonus. A lot of our models are static most of the time, after all. And a lot of our models are dominated by scenery which is static. Or we collect them and they sit in boxes or on display. I wonder if the running thing should be second place to the detail (and if you want running go for UM or other manufacturers who have robust mechanicals).

Bob

Offline austinbob

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Re: Dapol Standards dropping?
« Reply #36 on: April 12, 2018, 07:31:27 PM »
Surely the 38xx originally mentioned was made many years ago so can't be looked upon as recent production. Some of both Dapol and Farish stock will have been in store for a long time.

Wobble is not acceptable. I hear this is an issue on some batches of locos. Mine seem to get quieter with running.

The big problem for both Dapol and Farish is that British outline N gauge models are just too small in volume to give them much clout over the manufacturers. Its rather like in the automotive industry. BMW can force all sorts of things on most of their suppliers because the suppliers can't afford to put orders for more work from BMW at risk. When dealing with Bosch however, who are bigger and more powerful than BMW, the boot is on the other foot and BMW cannot really force anything onto Bosch. I know this because I have seen it happening. I have heard that all too often the Chinese factories making items for both Dapol and Farish (despite the family connection) do not follow instructions given to them by Dapol or Farish; they don't need to because the small British volumes means the business is not all that important to the factories and they know there aren't many other places for Dapol to send their business. Farish of course has no choice as to where it buys from.
Chris, as a consumer I am not really interested why N gauge suppliers have the problems they do in providing product (mostly locos) which are not fit for purpose. I want a product which does what the Manufacturer says it does on the tin. Usually this means fairly ordinary things like
It runs forwards and backwards.
It does not run like a demented kangaroo.
For steamers, valve gear should not fall off the loco, quartering should be correct, wire connections between loco and tender should be intact.
Fitted lights should work as intended.
Bits should not break or fall off the models either during delivery transit or in carefully removing them from Boxes/packaging.
Locos should, as a minimum, continue to run as new for the warranty period as long as any SPECIFIED maintenance is undertake.
They should not get so hot as to affect performance over the normal ambient temperature range or that they may harm the consumer.
They should not be unduly noisy - I agree  noise level is difficult to specify.

In the same way, if I could afford to buy a BMW I would not be the slightest bit interested in who BMW get their components from, what problems they have with their suppliers, what pain they suffer with pricing or any of their manufacturing problems. They advertise and sell a product to a defined specification and price and that's what I would expect to receive.

So I really do think we should stop making excuses for poor quality. Fitness for purpose is what we want EVERY time.
 :beers:
Size matters - especially if you don't have a lot of space - and N gauge is the answer!

Bob Austin

Offline Bramshot

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Re: Dapol Standards dropping?
« Reply #37 on: April 12, 2018, 07:56:30 PM »
So if we keep sending these back when faulty out of the box, ie unfit for purpose, what happens to them?  Assuming the manufacturer eventually has to fix them and re-sell, it must surely cost them a fortune which might be incentive to ‘do it once, do it right’ which used to be the mantra at my work, when I worked. Or maybe they just pass them back to China, but I doubt they would get any rebate. So I think they probably chuck them away, or into the spares bin, which means that we are paying for the reject rate one way or the other. So probably twice as much as we should be.

Offline Caz

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Re: Dapol Standards dropping?
« Reply #38 on: April 12, 2018, 08:00:30 PM »
I must be the lucky one then, I'm very pleased with my Dapol locos, all are good runners except one of the 8 panniers I have which has , slight wobble.  The 4 Halls, a Grange, 28xx all behave exemplary and pull my 8 coach trains round Claywell with it's gradients with ease.  Also have 3 Class 22 diesels and these also run ok.

Can't say the same for a couple of the BachFar offerings, the new Castle won't pull the skin off of a rice pudding, 5 coaches max round Claywell (the old version has no problems), my rebuilt Merchant Navy (Holland Afrika Line) can just manage 8 coaches but has some wheel slip and runs very noisily even on the flat.  Oh, and just had to buy a new bogie tower for one of the BachFar current production Class 101's as it has the dreaded spilt gear syndrome.

Offline Bramshot

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Re: Dapol Standards dropping?
« Reply #39 on: April 12, 2018, 08:04:03 PM »
Oh yes @Caz, the problem is not limited to Dapol, BachFar certainly have their problems too!

Offline thebrighton

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Re: Dapol Standards dropping?
« Reply #40 on: April 12, 2018, 09:27:03 PM »
So if we keep sending these back when faulty out of the box, ie unfit for purpose, what happens to them?  Assuming the manufacturer eventually has to fix them and re-sell, it must surely cost them a fortune which might be incentive to ‘do it once, do it right’ which used to be the mantra at my work, when I worked. Or maybe they just pass them back to China, but I doubt they would get any rebate. So I think they probably chuck them away, or into the spares bin, which means that we are paying for the reject rate one way or the other. So probably twice as much as we should be.

With Dapol they get returned to DCC Supplies as the authorised repairer. Where the purchaser wants a replacement rather than a repair they sell them as seconds through their website graded from A to E. This does show how fickle some people can be though as I recently bought  a B grade Schools from them and apart from the bag of bits and box sleeve being missing it is perfect in both build and running quality.
No idea why it was returned although I do remember buying a returned Farish loco from the now sadly closed Hobbybox of Uckfield. The purchaser had returned it due to a 1cm hairline scratch on the rear of the box!

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Dapol Standards dropping?
« Reply #41 on: April 12, 2018, 09:35:28 PM »
Did anyone else, like me, sign up to Dapol Digest (their own forum) in the hope we'd get faster, up to date news and be able to talk to Dapol about faults, praise them where applicable, suggest potential future releases etc.............only to find they just couldn't really be bothered themselves with it.
I have been on it today for the first time in about 6 months and there is just nothing of interest happened in that period. Seems like it's not just the product where standards are slipping :hmmm:
I do like their rolling stock, though, especially as their coaches are about 65-70% of the cost of Farish ones!!!

Offline Train Waiting

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Re: Dapol Standards dropping?
« Reply #42 on: April 12, 2018, 09:50:57 PM »
... I do like their rolling stock, though, especially as their coaches are about 65-70% of the cost of Farish ones!!!

I agree completely, Mick.  It runs well, too.  And there are some jolly nice liveries for us pre-nationalisation types (BR liveries are available as well - I prefer crimson and cream). 
'Why does the Disney Castle work so well?  Because it borrows from reality without ever slipping into it.'

(Acknowledgement: John Goodall Esq, Architectural Editor, 'Country Life'.)


The Table-Top Railway is a train set trying and failing to be a model railway.

I believe that train sets and model railways are fun.

Offline Bob Tidbury

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Re: Dapol Standards dropping?
« Reply #43 on: April 12, 2018, 09:51:31 PM »
I recently sold some of my stock so that I could afford to buy a Dapol. Chiltern livery Class 68 and its a supurb loco.it looks and runs really good .
The only Dapol loco Ive had real problems with was an early Q1 this ran one and a half laps of my layout while running in then stopped ,the only way it would move was if I followed it round pushing down.on the drive shaft.
I took it back to the supplier who had run out of stock so I exchanged it for a Farish Warship I took that home and started running it in ,as I looked closely I noticed that the front axle wasnt turning all the time I turned the loco upside down and sure enough one axle was just spinning round ,that went back and was soon sorted out the same week .
THE point is, there are  bound to be some rejects in all makes because they are hand assembled by someone who probably isnt paid a lot for their work  plus we ALL have had a bad day at work for whatever reason .
The only way you can stop things like this happening is to buy from small companies that have complete control over their product such as Union Mills Models  where you dont get the detail from the bigger boys but every loco is tested and run in before you get it ,or someone like Revolution where you get the detail and the product is designed and tested by people who are modelers themselves and made by a Firm like Rapido who again have complete control over the manufacture in their own factories  and are passionate about trains and even then  theve have had a few problems as noted on here by a couple of members .
So lets all be grateful for what we get and be a little bit more tolerant if or when things do go wrong let the supplier know and hope they take notice and sort out the problem .
Bob Tidbury
« Last Edit: April 12, 2018, 09:57:20 PM by Bob Tidbury »

Offline NeMo

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Re: Dapol Standards dropping?
« Reply #44 on: April 12, 2018, 09:57:25 PM »
Did anyone else, like me, sign up to Dapol Digest (their own forum) in the hope we'd get faster, up to date news and be able to talk to Dapol about faults, praise them where applicable, suggest potential future releases etc.............only to find they just couldn't really be bothered themselves with it.

Two years ago I suggested the following when the Digest was announced...

It'll be interesting to see how this forum develops. I think it can go two ways:
  • It becomes the best place for Dapol and the modelling community to discuss things. Dapol can listen to feedback, share updates on items in development, promote new items upon release, and get ideas for new products.
  • Most of the contributions from modellers are complaints, and Dapol invest very little themselves beyond copying-and-pasting press releases, so the whole thing becomes a bit of a embarrassment.

So I guess you'd be more included towards Option 2 being the way things actually turned out? Share really, but I'm not totally surprised. They are a small company, and they are doing a lot of things at once, and to be honest, if they're so limited they have to choose between product development and social media, I'm glad they're focusing on the first!

Cheers, NeMo

 

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