!!

Not Registered?

Welcome!  Please register to view all of the new posts and forum boards - some of which are hidden to guests.  After registering and gaining 10 posts you will be able to sell and buy items on our N'porium.

If you have any problems registering, then please check your spam filter before emailing us.  Hotmail users seem to find their emails in the Junk folder.


Thanks for reading,
The NGF Staff.

Author Topic: Dapol Standards dropping?  (Read 6975 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline B757-236GT

  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 24585
  • Posts: 792
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Facebook
    • My blogging blog!
    • Awards
Re: Dapol Standards dropping?
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2018, 10:24:04 AM »
The Brits were the worst, just go to collectors club day to see how many are returned. That said some can be sorted quite easily, sometimes half a turn of a screw either way makes a difference, tiny tweak of the valve gear too. I personally wouldn't buy a brit without seeing a test run however because its sadly the rule rather than the exception.

Richard
You want the truth, you cant handle the truth. Welcome to the Fox news channel. (Andy Parsons)

Online Bealman

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • N Gauge Society Number: 23151
  • Posts: 14508
  • Country: au
  • Gender: Male
  • Whoops back we go
    • Awards
Re: Dapol Standards dropping?
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2018, 10:38:35 AM »
Those Brits look great compared to the Minitrix versions from way back.

Shame they're getting bad press.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2018, 10:39:42 AM by Bealman »
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

Online Bob G

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 16057
  • Posts: 1073
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Dapol Standards dropping?
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2018, 01:39:28 PM »
My latest purchases regrettably support the poor Dapol QA/QC procedures observed by others.

I have recently enjoyed buying secondhand Bachfar versions of original Farish models - the 61xx prairie tank (a design dating from 1977) and the 94xx pannier (a design originally dating from 1971), both with bullet proof chassis and nice paint finish on the Chinese production models. Also a nice secondhand but new design Bachfar 08 shunter. And a new Bachfar class 37 is also very smooth running.

The one Dapol bubble car I bought recently came with a pre-broken exhaust. They didn't even give me the chance to get it out the box!

Simple checks would really help, rather than leave the shop or the purchaser to find out.

Bob

Offline trkilliman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 676
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Dapol Standards dropping?
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2018, 02:32:36 PM »
The question of Dapol quality has come up time and again. To air a grievance or dissapointment with a product/service is fair game IMO, whether it's a car, washing machine, hotel accomodation or a model train.
Some on here percieve comments as "Dapol bashing", but perhaps they have been quite lucky and have no reason to compain or gripe about their purchase/s?  Others have become exasperated with ongoing faults encountered with replacement locos. Some vow not to buy another Dapol loco as a result.

There have also been numerous complaints of Farish stuff, which makes me wonder if both brands are overley cost engineered?  A test/inspection before leaving the factory is a cost they are maybe not prepared to absorb.

I'm sure this discussion will go on and on, with little if anything changing. Just my view of course.


Complaints have been ongoing for some time now, yet it does not appear to be getting any better.


Offline EtchedPixels

  • Advertiser
  • Trade Count: (+44)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 16353
  • 2mm Association Number: 4412
  • Posts: 8251
  • Country: wales
  • Gender: Male
    • Ebay
    • Google+
    • Twitter
    • YouTube
    • Etched Pixels
    • Awards
Re: Dapol Standards dropping?
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2018, 02:41:09 PM »
They don't really have much choice but to engineer to a rather low target price (especially for the low volumes). UK modellers are relatively speaking 'price sensitivie' (ie we're a bunch of tightwads). (Kato can do it for Japan in part because they sell such high volumes so the one off costs are split rather finer).

Union Mills solve it by sticking to a standard theme and limitations, the others try and push the limits and sometimes it's awesome sometimes it's not.

If you want a totally reliable tested before shipping UK model then CJM sell them. Expect to pay 500 for a model with a really heavy chassis, amazing control and reliability. Not everyone is going to pay that sort of price.

Alan
"Knowledge has no value or use for the solitary owner: to be enjoyed it must be communicated" -- Charles Pratt, 1st Earl Camden

Offline Newportnobby

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+63)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • N Gauge Society Number: 21962
  • Posts: 29993
  • Country: england
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Dapol Standards dropping?
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2018, 03:22:06 PM »

If you want a totally reliable tested before shipping UK model then CJM sell them. Expect to pay 500 for a model with a really heavy chassis, amazing control and reliability. Not everyone is going to pay that sort of price.


But they don't make anything I want. If they did, and I knew I'd have to pay 500, one loco per year would do me just fine. I have 25 Dapol locos and there's something wrong with all of them. Some have been replaced with something just as bad so, if I want one at all, I have to accept poor quality. All are noisy and Joel at Dapol reckons I've been unlucky. Yeah right. 25 times ::)
The BoB was going to be the last Dapol loco I'd buy and they've shelved that! :unimpressed:

Offline austinbob

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 23835
  • Posts: 4348
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Dapol Standards dropping?
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2018, 03:33:11 PM »
They don't really have much choice but to engineer to a rather low target price (especially for the low volumes). UK modellers are relatively speaking 'price sensitivie' (ie we're a bunch of tightwads). (Kato can do it for Japan in part because they sell such high volumes so the one off costs are split rather finer).

Union Mills solve it by sticking to a standard theme and limitations, the others try and push the limits and sometimes it's awesome sometimes it's not.

If you want a totally reliable tested before shipping UK model then CJM sell them. Expect to pay 500 for a model with a really heavy chassis, amazing control and reliability. Not everyone is going to pay that sort of price.

Alan
Regardless of what price any consumer product is there is no excuse for shipping any product which is not fit for purpose. There is no point in producing a model at a low price if there is a high probability it won't work. UNLESS there is something in the purchase agreement which states just that ie. 'this product is produced to sell at a low price but there is no guarantee that it will work'.
 :veryangry:
Size matters - especially if you don't have a lot of space - and N gauge is the answer!

Bob Austin

Offline B757-236GT

  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 24585
  • Posts: 792
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Facebook
    • My blogging blog!
    • Awards
Re: Dapol Standards dropping?
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2018, 03:48:11 PM »
I sell both Dapol and Farish products and i have to say with Dapol there seems to be a trend, with Farish its a more broader range of faults. For me Dapol gets it right most of the time but when they get it wrong they tend to get it badly wrong in terms of quality, the Brit is a good example, there are lots of them which are faulty however the 9F, Schools, Terrier, 14xx, Q1 38XX and Grange have all come and gone without any issue. I test each one of them and i always lube them before departure as despite it saying in big letters to do it many people don't, this way i know its been done and i always state that the item has already been lubed. The same with the diesels, there has been odd faulty Western but normally it tends to be lights failing or getting too hot and then melting but given how many were produced the failure rate is massively low.

To put it in to perspective Ive had more faulty Ford Transit vans in the last 2 years (so far the record is out of 8 hires 7 have broken down( i even owned one that spent more time with Ford than i had it). In comparison out of 122 Dapol locos Ive had there have been 6 failures which makes Dapol better than Ford. Just for reference for Farish Ive sold 146 and have had 7 back or failed before sale.

Richard
You want the truth, you cant handle the truth. Welcome to the Fox news channel. (Andy Parsons)

Offline austinbob

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 23835
  • Posts: 4348
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Dapol Standards dropping?
« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2018, 04:13:51 PM »
Just as an exercise to satisfy my curiosity I've counted up my Dapol and Farish Locos bought new and counted the number of faulty locos from each manufacturer. A fault being something which prevented the loco running as it should. There were a number of other faults (such as broken or missing detail) which I have not counted as a fault

Faults were out of the box mostly but a few faults appeared after a short period of time, such as after running in.

Dapol
8 out of 25 failures (or 32%)

Farish
5 out of 31 failures (or 16%)

I accept that this is a small sample in the overall scheme of things but I think anyone would agree that this level of fault is not acceptable. No one would accept this level of faulty product for ANY other consumer goods. Time to stop the excuses methinks and for the problems to be sorted out, even if it means higher cost.

 :beers:
Size matters - especially if you don't have a lot of space - and N gauge is the answer!

Bob Austin

Offline stevewalker

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 221
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Dapol Standards dropping?
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2018, 04:17:42 PM »
My experience of just the Britannia, as mentioned before, is:

Irreparably faulty from new.
Replacement faulty.
Replacement wrong loco.
Replacement faulty.

So 3 out of 3 faulty and 4-1/2 months to get to this stage. This is despite them promising that the each of the replacements would be tested before dispatch.

I wish I'd hung onto the A4 that they wrongly sent - that might have worked and I could have sold it on and bought something else that worked!

Offline thebrighton

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 11588
  • 2mm Association Number: 4483
  • Posts: 615
  • Country: england
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Dapol Standards dropping?
« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2018, 04:46:22 PM »
I have hundreds of locos and don't recall ever having to return a Farish steamer. There's been the odd tweak and fixing the odd bit of detail that has come adrift but that's it.
Dapol on the other hand is very hit and miss. I've 6 M7's (many of which have sacrificed themselves to scratchbuilds) and despite their poor pulling ability they've all been faultless. I've 11 Terriers (some again sacrificed) and, again, have been faultless. Ones wheels became loose on the axles but that was my fault. My Schools although a DCC B grade is perfect as are 7/8 class 73's and 4 14xx's.
On the flip side it took 3 Q1's to get one that was just about acceptable, I gave up with Britannia's but still have one as I couldn't be bothered to return any more, ditto the 9F, 2 x B17's that lasted a matter of weeks before the valve gear disintegrated, I've a pile of junk 45xx's and 2 duff Ivatt 2-6-2's.
Bottom line is Dapol can supply a perfectly good loco but have also offered some complete dogs. I got the impression that they were continually trying to improve and every loco was approached with new ideas rather than building on what worked. As a result some models are fine and some are not.
It doesn't put me off buying Dapol but I wait now to see initial reports as it is quick to spot which models to avoid.

Offline Portpatrick

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 3434
  • Posts: 705
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Dapol Standards dropping?
« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2018, 04:48:05 PM »
Bob makes they key point.  One which is enshrined in UK consumer law - fitness for purpose.  And I would consider the meaning of that term is the expectation that after any prescribed running in , a loco will run well and with normal handling (how on earth you define that beats me) will not fall apart for a reasonable time .  What is a reasonable life?  Well I still run a 1976 Minitrix Brit a 1980? Farish Compound, and other late 80s/early90s Farish  .   But 2*B!s, 2*A2s and an A1 and 3 sets of valve gear have needed home repairs (30% failure rate). 

I agree the Dapol Brit is vastly superior to the Minitriix - and my first one is a fabulous runner.  Pity about the craze Dapol had at that time for silver wheels and those large cross head screws.  The one I bought for 60 at Aly Paly the other week looks far better.  I am unsure how the RH con rod got bent causing total lock up.  But I got it  sorted.  A little noisy but a nice runner.  I can live with that.  However I am averse to their prop shaft approach to tender locos and will generally avoid Dapol tender engines.  I would rather have true tender drive though am not sorry Farish have reverted to loco drive.  I am pleased to say never had any problems with recent diesels whether Farish or Dapol. 

It is probably true that we are more demanding on quality these days.  But that is a general trend and why not?  We the end customer should be supreme.  And I have no problem with the hard working chinese labourers benefiting from Western living standards if they  produce to Western increasing demands for quality.  Even if I cannot afford to buy so many. 

Offline Newportnobby

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+63)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • N Gauge Society Number: 21962
  • Posts: 29993
  • Country: england
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Dapol Standards dropping?
« Reply #27 on: April 12, 2018, 04:51:12 PM »
I guess we can kiss goodbye to the Bulleid light pacific now then. Not sure anyone from Dapol reads the forum but they won't like it up 'em (says Corporal Jones)

Online Train Waiting

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1646
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • The Table-Top Railway.
    • Awards
Re: Dapol Standards dropping?
« Reply #28 on: April 12, 2018, 05:00:03 PM »
... I have 25 Dapol locos and there's something wrong with all of them. Some have been replaced with something just as bad so, if I want one at all, I have to accept poor quality. All are noisy and Joel at Dapol reckons I've been unlucky. Yeah right. 25 times ::)
The BoB was going to be the last Dapol loco I'd buy and they've shelved that! :unimpressed:

That is a worrying statistic.

I have bought four new Farish locomotives in the past year (three diesel and one steam).  Two diesel and one steam were returned to the retailer.  Replacements are all fine.

I have bought one Dapol diesel locomotive in the past year.  It has failed (lights out at one end) and is about to go to DCC Supplies.

Incidentally, one of the Farish diesel failures was lights as well.  I'm not desperately wanting lights to be fitted but, if they are, they ought to work.

However, I have been impressed with the rolling stock from both Farish and Dapol.

John
'Why does the Disney Castle work so well?  Because it borrows from reality without ever slipping into it.'

(Acknowledgement: John Goodall Esq, Architectural Editor, 'Country Life'.)


The Table-Top Railway is a train set trying and failing to be a model railway.

I believe that train sets and model railways are fun.

Online Paul-H

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 27678
  • Posts: 588
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Dapol Standards dropping?
« Reply #29 on: April 12, 2018, 05:01:37 PM »
Dont know if its just me and the bad luck that follows closely behind me as I am a fall into a barrel of roses and come out smelling of Sh*te type of guy, but of all the dapol N-Gauge Locos I have owned

Two, 0-6-0 Tanks both ran like dogs
One, 9F, kept losing its dog bone and the front bogie would never stay on
One, Class 33, Noisy as hell
One, Class 35 even noisier than hell
One, Class 52 this one is actually ok
One, Class 66 issues with one LED faulty out of the box

So out of Seven all but one has issues, don't think I will bother with any more, which is a shame as I fancy their class 68.

Paul
Please excuse any poor spelling, I am Dyslexic, just think yourself lucky if you can actually read what I typed.

All tiepin as bean spell chequed on mi Pea Sea

 

Please Support Us!
December Goal: £55.00
Due Date: Dec 31
Total Receipts: £275.00
Above Goal: £220.00
Site Currency: GBP
500% 
December Donations


Advertise Here
anything