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Author Topic: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS  (Read 62447 times)

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Offline Izzy

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Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
« Reply #525 on: July 28, 2019, 12:25:25 PM »
 
Quote from: Snowwolflair link=topic=36228.msg581066#msg581066 date=1564311217
Its a dead short protection to protect the DCC System not the loco.
[/quote

Yes, but the controller is a DC one, or doesn't that matter, it will work just the same, no different effect on the DCC decoder?

Izzy

Offline jthjth

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Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
« Reply #526 on: July 28, 2019, 12:38:58 PM »
Having desperately read through the above as a DC dinosaur, all I need to do then, is try it with a 9V battery?

Why didn't you say so  ;)

Sorry :)

Ok, the key point is if it runs fine on a 9v battery you have a good locomotive. If it then runs poorly with your controller please donít blame the loco.

To get things into perspective, it ought to work just fine with the majority of modern controllers.

Just as an aside, the Bachmann/Farish DC trainset controller puts out a surprisingly high voltage at full throttle, around 22v with no load. The Hunslet takes very little current, so it sees around 21v from this controller. It survives it well. Itís been run up to 32v without issue, though the components start to get hot, so I wouldnít recommend doing this for an extended period if you donít want to see warped body work. Itís worth bearing in mind, not just for the Hunslet, that running a loco in at full throttle on a Bachmann/Farish controller may not be a good idea. Always worth sticking a multimeter across the track.

Online ntpntpntp

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Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
« Reply #527 on: July 28, 2019, 01:59:40 PM »

Just as an aside, the Bachmann/Farish DC trainset controller puts out a surprisingly high voltage at full throttle, around 22v with no load. .... Itís worth bearing in mind, not just for the Hunslet, that running a loco in at full throttle on a Bachmann/Farish controller may not be a good idea. Always worth sticking a multimeter across the track.

Though surely it would be flying off the rails at that well below sort of voltage?!   :D

I have a few DCC fitted locos that run on my DC line from time to time, driven by KPC "exhibition grade" controllers dating from the 80s.  They behave just fine, though a couple prefer the feedback circuit to be switched out - as do some  plain DC locos anyway especially Kato/Hobbytrain which are noticeably "jerky" under feedback.  Generally I only switch in the feedback for old open frame motored locos these days if they need it for slow running smoothness.

I do usually replace plugin decoders with blanking plates if I buy a 2nd-hand DCC fitted loco.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2019, 02:00:45 PM by ntpntpntp »
Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "KŲnigshafen" exhibition layout!

Offline jthjth

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Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
« Reply #528 on: July 28, 2019, 02:09:18 PM »
ďThough surely it would be flying off the rails at that well below sort of voltage?!   :DĒ

Actually no. It doesnít go that fast at 12v, being a shunter. At full throttle on a Bachmann/Farish controller it just reaches express train speeds.


Offline dannyboy

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Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
« Reply #529 on: July 28, 2019, 04:18:36 PM »
So one of my DC controllers is a home-built high frequency PWM jobbie - an Arduino nano using hardware PWM set to 31kHz driving a DRV8871 motor driver (chopper H-bridge) with current limiter set to 2A (which in theory could mean that there is an even higher frequency from the DRV8871 layered on top if we ever see the full 2A current draw). Peak voltage is very well regulated at just under 12V and I think (can't remember the code precisely) that the maximum duty cycle never quite reaches 100%.

Is this likely to confuse the electronics on board?

I don't know about the ;) electronics, but that lot confused me!
David.
I used to be indecisive - now I'm not - I don't think.
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Offline ngaugepaul

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Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
« Reply #530 on: July 28, 2019, 05:33:39 PM »
and me !

Offline Gnep

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Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
« Reply #531 on: July 28, 2019, 06:40:28 PM »

Having some knowledge of the decoder being used, I would say your controller wonít blow it up. What I couldnít say with any certainty is whether or not your signal will confuse the decoder. It has two basic modes of operation, DC and DCC. When there is enough volts on the track (around 4.5) the decoderís processor wakes up. It then decides the mode. How it decides the mode exactly I do not know. Your chopped DC may, or may not, be enough to convince it that there is a DCC signal on the track. If it thinks it is DCC then clearly there would not be a valid packet, so it wonít move.

Thanks - really useful reply. I have other "normal" DC controllers (Gaugemaster D and Kato) so was just wondering really. By the sounds of it I won't be risking too much by giving it a try and seeing what happens. When the locos land I'll do so and report back just in case anyone else was wondering (admittedly unlikely!)

Offline GlenP

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Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
« Reply #532 on: August 15, 2019, 01:13:50 PM »
Thanks - really useful reply. I have other "normal" DC controllers (Gaugemaster D and Kato) so was just wondering really. By the sounds of it I won't be risking too much by giving it a try and seeing what happens. When the locos land I'll do so and report back just in case anyone else was wondering (admittedly unlikely!)

I'm wondering exactly the same (so not that unlikely)!

The layout I'm currently building uses an off-the-shelf PWM motor controller hooked up to a Raspberry Pi*. I'd have gone the DCC route but one of the locos is an N-Brass kit Peckett on an N Drive Productions chassis. I decided that trying to fit DCC was impractical but a PWM controller is the next best thing.

*The aim is full automation but I'm a self-confessed geek.

Glen


Online Snowwolflair

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Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
« Reply #533 on: August 15, 2019, 01:18:24 PM »
Thanks - really useful reply. I have other "normal" DC controllers (Gaugemaster D and Kato) so was just wondering really. By the sounds of it I won't be risking too much by giving it a try and seeing what happens. When the locos land I'll do so and report back just in case anyone else was wondering (admittedly unlikely!)

I'm wondering exactly the same (so not that unlikely)!

The layout I'm currently building uses an off-the-shelf PWM motor controller hooked up to a Raspberry Pi*. I'd have gone the DCC route but one of the locos is an N-Brass kit Peckett on an N Drive Productions chassis. I decided that trying to fit DCC was impractical but a PWM controller is the next best thing.

*The aim is full automation but I'm a self-confessed geek.

Glen

It will depend of the frequency of the PWM wave.  Either on power up the chip will decide its DCC and try to decode it or it will reject it and switch to DC. mode.

Offline jthjth

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Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
« Reply #534 on: August 15, 2019, 01:49:56 PM »
One possible workaround with a PWM based controller is to fit a smooting capacitor on its output. If this is before the reversing switch it can be a suitable electrolytic. If after the reversing switch you need to ensure it is not polarised. This will produce a DC level in proportion to the mark space ratio of your PWM signal. If it is a fancy controller that looks at the motor's back EMF in the pulse gaps for some sort of feedback control, I would not expect the feedback to work properly.

Just to reiterate a previous point, the Hunslet will work on DCC or DC, and it means exactly that. Everything that is not DCC (eg PWM) should not necessarily be assumed to be DC. If you have any doubts at all about your Hunslet's performance, stick it on an isolated oval of track and place the terminals of a PP3 battery across the rails.

regards

Julian Thornhill

Offline ohlavache

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Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
« Reply #535 on: August 26, 2019, 07:39:36 AM »
One question that may have been asked before.
Will there be a possibility to order some more once they are released? (I'd like to get a second one in another livery.)
Thanks.


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Offline GlenP

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Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
« Reply #536 on: August 26, 2019, 08:14:54 AM »
I believe that once the pre-orders have been fulfilled they will go on general sale to the members. I guess how many of each livery will be available depends on orders received though.

My ďlocos I donít really needĒ budget is way overspent at the moment as Iíve also pre-ordered the Hattons Beyer Garratt (which Iíve got no layout for but I just love them) so Iíll stick with the one Hunslet.

Glen

Offline NGS-PO

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Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
« Reply #537 on: August 26, 2019, 08:29:55 AM »
One question that may have been asked before.
Will there be a possibility to order some more once they are released? (I'd like to get a second one in another livery.)
Thanks.

Yes there will, once the pre-orders are fulfilled, the stock will then go on general sale, and lack of stock should not be an issue.

Best

Scott
(PLEASE NOTE: Unless where obviously posting on behalf of the NGS, all posts and views are my own and not connected/endorsed by the Society.)

Anxiety is a lot like a toddler. It never stops talking, tells you youíre wrong about everything, and wakes you up at 3am.

I get nervous about just about everything. Sometimes I literally donít know why Iím anxious. I just am and no-one seems to understand that.

Offline Pedanticmongrel

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Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
« Reply #538 on: August 28, 2019, 10:22:16 AM »
Any recent updates on when these are due? I remember the NGS magazine saying they were close to shipping to the UK quite a while back, since then I haven't seen any updates.

Offline NGS-PO

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Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
« Reply #539 on: August 28, 2019, 10:29:55 AM »

Hello all,

Apologies, not had a chance to reply until now.  In answer to some of the questions and points raised...

2). DELIVERY.  The bodyshells are ready.  Packaging etc is all done.  We are waiting for the PCBs, being manufactured in Austria, to be sent to China for final assembly to be completed.  I do not know how long this will take, but I have been told there is no reason the models will not be here by Q4 2019.  As ever please understand that may change.

Cheers

Ben A.
(NGS VP/)

As far as I'm aware the above from July still stands; I've not heard anything to the contrary. Q4 technically is Oct 1st to December 31st, so anytime within that window would be a decent ballpark timescale, assuming no further delays.

Best

Scott
(PLEASE NOTE: Unless where obviously posting on behalf of the NGS, all posts and views are my own and not connected/endorsed by the Society.)

Anxiety is a lot like a toddler. It never stops talking, tells you youíre wrong about everything, and wakes you up at 3am.

I get nervous about just about everything. Sometimes I literally donít know why Iím anxious. I just am and no-one seems to understand that.

 

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