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Author Topic: The BHE B12 Kit  (Read 1094 times)

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Offline Portpatrick

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The BHE B12 Kit
« on: December 04, 2016, 03:40:53 PM »
I have referred to my example  this kit in the Thompson BG thread.  So I thought a few observations on it may he helpful.

The BHE range were mostly (entirely?) formerly under the D&M label, which was around in the 80s.  This kit requires the use of the old Poole Hall chassis from which the cylinders etc must be removed.  The remaining chassis is then turned 180 degrees.  So the leading bogie is attached to the former rear and the tender links to the "front".  I found the effect of this was a lack of good balance in the loco.  It became too front end weighted.  The heavy magnet is over the from drivers and the smokebox is a solid and heavy casting.  This fouled up traction and pick up, was the rear drivers tended to lift from the rails

Solution is not too tricky.  I drilled out some of the inside of the smoke box.  Then added lead in the top of the firebox - with the motor sloping down towards the rear there is lots of room.  I added a sheet as a form of back plate to make the cab look less crude.  The loco now sits back on its drivers - traction and pick up now fine.  Don't overdo it though.  Or the loco becomes top heavy and unbalanced and will fall over on poor track!!

It is a nice kit and not difficult to assemble .  I bought the Holden version as it was the B12/1 which formed the basis of allocation of locos the Scotland to work the old GNoSR routes, from which they were withdrawn in the first 5-7 years or so of British Railways.  Of course this had a nice large belpair firebox which had plenty of room for my extra weight.  I suspect their B12/3 kit would have sufficient, though most might prefer the Union Mills RTR offering if you wanted that version.  Overall it is on the tall side - had to raise a bridge on the club layout!!  But again this meant there was room for the weight.

Kit building is less in vogue, or necessary these days but these thoughts may help someone.

Offline martyn

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Re: The BHE B12 Kit
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2017, 07:00:23 PM »
Hi Portpatrick
I haven't built the B12, but many years ago I did build the 'Claud' from BH Enterprises. I did write an article for the 'Journal', I think-it would have been about 20 years ago! IIRC, the master was made by Phil Kerr.
One thing seriously wrong on the 'Claud', and I think it is the same for the B12-the kit roof has very deep ribbing on it, which is absent from the real ones; and, technically, I don't think there was a B12/1; sometimes the originals were known as B12/GE, but usually just B12; B12/2 were Lenz valve locos and may have retained the classification after being converted from Lenz valves to piston valves (they had slightly different framing and running plate); B12/3 was the Gresley/Thompson rebuild; and B12/4 the remaining locos in Scotland fitted with a smaller diameter round top boiler. The RCTS history is adamant that the originals were never B12/1 on the LNER official diagrams. I also found that the 'Claud' was overheight to fit the chassis-I think the Union Mills version may be as well.
Incidentally, the ACFI feedwater heater fitted locos were known as 'Hikers' or 'Camels'; I think some of the locos transferred to Scotland still had this fitted when they reallocated.
Martyn

Offline ScottishModeller

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Re: The BHE B12 Kit
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2017, 08:12:43 PM »
I have referred to my example  this kit in the Thompson BG thread.  So I thought a few observations on it may he helpful.

The BHE range were mostly (entirely?) formerly under the D&M label, which was around in the 80s.  This kit requires the use of the old Poole Hall chassis from which the cylinders etc must be removed.  The remaining chassis is then turned 180 degrees.  So the leading bogie is attached to the former rear and the tender links to the "front".  I found the effect of this was a lack of good balance in the loco.  It became too front end weighted.  The heavy magnet is over the from drivers and the smokebox is a solid and heavy casting.  This fouled up traction and pick up, was the rear drivers tended to lift from the rails

Solution is not too tricky.  I drilled out some of the inside of the smoke box.  Then added lead in the top of the firebox - with the motor sloping down towards the rear there is lots of room.  I added a sheet as a form of back plate to make the cab look less crude.  The loco now sits back on its drivers - traction and pick up now fine.  Don't overdo it though.  Or the loco becomes top heavy and unbalanced and will fall over on poor track!!

It is a nice kit and not difficult to assemble .  I bought the Holden version as it was the B12/1 which formed the basis of allocation of locos the Scotland to work the old GNoSR routes, from which they were withdrawn in the first 5-7 years or so of British Railways.  Of course this had a nice large belpair firebox which had plenty of room for my extra weight.  I suspect their B12/3 kit would have sufficient, though most might prefer the Union Mills RTR offering if you wanted that version.  Overall it is on the tall side - had to raise a bridge on the club layout!!  But again this meant there was room for the weight.

Kit building is less in vogue, or necessary these days but these thoughts may help someone.
Hi there,

Not all of the BHE kit range originated with D&M.....

D&M went initially to GEM, then to another maker (can't remember name) before they ended up with BHE

The kit does suggest using the Hall chassis as a basis to work from, but it wasn't originally.

The solution I presented to D&M was deemed to be too costly to pursue and the use of the Hall chassis came into the reckoning.

Originally the intent was for the kit to use the Prarie chassis with Hall wheels and a shortened front bogie.

This gave a better balance to the loco and did not affect the running or pickup of the model

The deep ribbing on the rof was, if I remember correctlym, the result of a tool modification that was needed to avoid the failure of original roof when being cast. The deeper ribbing was added to enable the roof to be a more successful moulding.

You are correct, the master for the B12 and the Claud, were made by Phil Kerr.

You are also correct in your summary of the various classes/sub classes of the loco and it's later developments.

I also heard that some of the Hikers made it to Scotland with feedwater heaters in place but have not found any photos to show this.

Thanks
Thanks
Phil Holman

Offline martyn

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Re: The BHE B12 Kit
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2017, 08:48:29 PM »
Hi Scottish modeller;
'Locomotives Illustrated' 77, dated May-June 1991, was dedicated to the class. There is at least one picture of a 'Hiker' with ACFI in Scotland, and a caption inferring that any still fitted with ACFI when transferred did not have this removed until general removal from the class after 1937; removal was completed in 1942. I haven't  been through the RCTS history to see which locos transferred to Scotland still had ACFI when they moved.
Martyn

Offline ScottishModeller

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Re: The BHE B12 Kit
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2017, 08:54:47 PM »
Hi Scottish modeller;
'Locomotives Illustrated' 77, dated May-June 1991, was dedicated to the class. There is at least one picture of a 'Hiker' with ACFI in Scotland, and a caption inferring that any still fitted with ACFI when transferred did not have this removed until general removal from the class after 1937; removal was completed in 1942. I haven't  been through the RCTS history to see which locos transferred to Scotland still had ACFI when they moved.
Martyn
Hi Martyn,

Thanks for the information.

It's all too far in the past!

I was modelling 1950's/1960's steam/green diesel - hence my lack of familiarity with the details of this one.

Thanks

Thanks
Phil Holman

Offline Portpatrick

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Re: The BHE B12 Kit
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2017, 11:15:15 AM »
Some useful and interesting responses, both on the prototype and the kit.


I can appreciate that the term B12/1 may not be official, though it does get used in the Wikipedia entry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GER_Class_S69

I note that a minority of the Scottish locos received a round top firebox rebuild, along with the lighter boiler, becoming the B12/4. 

Yes the kit does have a ribbed roof.  I will consider whether to file it flat.  Incidentally I have built both versions of the Claude.  But they have been subject to my butchering activities.  I used the round topped version as the basis of a Glen - could not find a Graham Hughes kit.  And the Belpair version as the basis for an Eastfield shed  Director.  Both give a good impression though clearly far from "accurate".  And for the Director I fairly recently sourced a built and BR lined GEM version of this loco on EBay.  Sold for c 40 as a dodgy runner, I immediately saw the problems and 30 mins of adjustments and she is now a beauty.

Offline martyn

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Re: The BHE B12 Kit
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2017, 11:34:11 AM »
Hi Portpatrick;
I used the Belpaire Claud (no 'e' in Claud) as a basis for an impressionistic J17-it was in 'Journal' some years ago. Its overscale, but looks the part............Theoretically, the B12 could similarly be used as a basis for a J20-but AFAIK, a RTR chassis would be difficult to source, as the J20 wheelbase was quite long.
You are correct that the B12/4 in Scotland had a smaller round top boiler than the B12/3, due to weight limitations; when the B12/4s were withdrawn, the boilers went to Stratford to rebuild the Belpaire J20s to round top. Another theoretical conversion, I suppose......
As an aside, it is interesting that the original S69/B12 design was credited to SD Holden (CME at the time, but absent during the design period), when actually it was the Stratford drawing office under Russell; and likewise the B12/3 Gresley rebuild design was actually carried out by Thompson and the Stratford drawing office; it was the same story for the 'Clauds'.
Happy modelling
Martyn

Offline Portpatrick

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Re: The BHE B12 Kit
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2017, 01:08:56 PM »
Hi Martyn

As the boilers were mostly used on J20s as per the Wikipedia article, I guess using the BHE kit in that way makes sense.  I am not very familiar with the J17 or J20.

Sadly I do not have the articles you refer to.  While I have been a member of NGS since c start of 1984, I don't have space to retain more than articles of specific interest beyond a couple of years.  Until the early 2000 years my interests centred on North Wales so LNER things got edited out.  Now, at least for Scotland based locos that would not be the case.

I have made a presentable likeness of a Fort William J36 from a Union Mills J25.  And the long lived Caley tank 55124 from a Langley E5 kit.  The Dapol M7 has been the base for the more common larger versions.    I would love to see the Scottish version of the K2, but will no doubt end up hacking at something to make one.

Offline martyn

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Re: The BHE B12 Kit
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2017, 03:53:28 PM »
Good to see the ancient art of kit bashing is still alive!
Martyn

Offline Portpatrick

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Re: The BHE B12 Kit
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2017, 05:59:22 PM »
As a OO modelling teenager in the late 60s/early 70s, there was a guy called Bill Oldroyd, or something like that.  He was master at bashing and hacking things.  Making a 2P out of the Triang L1 was a simple start for him.  Indeed I had earmarked that for my own fist attempt, until under the revamped Hornby label, they produced a 2P.

Probably my most challenging/mad was marrying a Farish GWR 61XX to a minitrix 262T chassis to make a 55XX.  When I had the body in 4 pieces on the table I did doubt my own sanity.  But it all worked a treat and I managed to sell it later.  That was in my LMS/GWR in North Wales days.


Offline martyn

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Re: The BHE B12 Kit
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2017, 07:27:49 PM »
I know we are getting off topic now, but when I first started reading magazines in the mid 70s, someone took the Triang B12 and made it into, amongst others, a Claud, and about three different GER 060s. I think he also made models of non-GER locos using the B1 as a starting point.
I've enjoyed quite a few successes-and occasional disaster-when kit building, but usually they come out as intended, sometimes despite the design of the kits in the first place!
Brg
Martyn

 

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