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Author Topic: Atso's Carriage and Wagon Works  (Read 21030 times)

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Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Atso's Carriage and Wagon Works
« Reply #255 on: February 06, 2019, 10:16:42 AM »
It's one of the endearing traits of parcels rakes, Steve. Any old thing could be flung into service.....and was! I'm happy to run any 20th century stock in my transition era parcels trains.

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Re: Atso's Carriage and Wagon Works
« Reply #256 on: February 06, 2019, 10:18:45 AM »
It's really great to see you back in action Steve; both modelling and posting.

I know you enjoy the Southern Area, so here's a picture for you:


[Sometime in the mid-'thirties, Ivatt 'Q2' 0-8-0 No. 3454 chuffs gently past Poppingham station with an Up goods train.]


Thank you ever so much John.

Regarding your lovely (and thoughtful) picture, it must have been taken prior to February 1934 as that is when 3454 was withdrawn from service and scrapped.

The Q2 is a lovely locomotive and is the only LNER heavy freight locomotive currently available. How lovely would it be to have a Gresley O1 or O2 or even a Robinson O4!

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Re: Atso's Carriage and Wagon Works
« Reply #257 on: February 06, 2019, 10:23:43 AM »
It's one of the endearing traits of parcels rakes, Steve. Any old thing could be flung into service.....and was! I'm happy to run any 20th century stock in my transition era parcels trains.

Not just parcel rakes but normal passenger and even express services as well Mick. Have a look at the roof profiles in the rake in the link below; a right old mish-mash:

https://mikemorant.smugmug.com/Trains-Railways-British-Isles/LNER-and-BRE-and-BRNE/LNER-pre-grouping-locomotives/GNR-locomotives/i-zwwJj8m

Just as a side line, 4436 will eventually form part of my Atlantic fleet - because it was one of the few that retained Ramsbottom safety valves instead of getting the Ross-Pop type. Again, something a bit different to model.

Offline thebrighton

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Re: Atso's Carriage and Wagon Works
« Reply #258 on: February 06, 2019, 01:02:22 PM »
Thanks Gareth. Interesting to read that you're in the process of rebuilding you 51 footers and you've answer a question I had about when to fit the grab rails and door handles - I assume that you'll be gluing these in place.

Are you rebuilding yours as a single unit or can they be broken down into sub-assemblies? If so, how have you arranged this?
Teach me to look at the forum on my phone with it's tiny photos, mine are the 51' corridor ones from Worsley Works. I can see yours aren't now I'm on the laptop! Sorry

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Atso's Carriage and Wagon Works
« Reply #259 on: February 06, 2019, 04:15:23 PM »

Just as a side line, 4436 will eventually form part of my Atlantic fleet - because it was one of the few that retained Ramsbottom safety valves instead of getting the Ross-Pop type. Again, something a bit different to model.

It never fails to amaze me you and a few others have such in-depth knowledge (shakes head in wonder emoji)

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Re: Atso's Carriage and Wagon Works
« Reply #260 on: February 06, 2019, 10:51:23 PM »
Teach me to look at the forum on my phone with it's tiny photos, mine are the 51' corridor ones from Worsley Works. I can see yours aren't now I'm on the laptop! Sorry

Hi Gareth,

Even so, if you have any pictures of how you've built these, it would be most appreciated by me.

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Re: Atso's Carriage and Wagon Works
« Reply #261 on: February 06, 2019, 11:01:39 PM »
It never fails to amaze me you and a few others have such in-depth knowledge (shakes head in wonder emoji)

I wouldn't say I've got an in-depth knowledge really Mick. It is more of a case of deciding roughly what I want and researching what the suitable options are.

In the case of the C1s 4454 (the one currently being built), it was a must have due to it being one of two C1s that deputised for failed A4s on the Silver Jubilee. This was a Doncaster based locomotive so the rest really need to be representative of more locally based locomotives (I.e. Kings Cross and Hitchin). However to make life a little more interesting, I would like each of the remainder to be visually different. There are differences in the safety valves, location of the works plates, missing oil boxes on the splashers, lubricators and at least two basic varieties of tender as well as slight differences to the smoke box (depending on the type of valves fitted) that could be modelled - all within a fairly 'standard' class of locomotive.

Offline thebrighton

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Re: Atso's Carriage and Wagon Works
« Reply #262 on: February 07, 2019, 10:13:41 AM »
Even so, if you have any pictures of how you've built these, it would be most appreciated by me.
Sorry, I didn't take any photos but I built them the same way as other Worsley Works coaches (at least 20 now).
First off after removing the floor I fold up the sides that the etched sides are to be attached to then fold up the inner ends and solder them on to the floor then add the outer ends. There are no guides so when doing this ensure the ends are the same distance apart as the etched sides are in length. Guess how I learnt this!
Tin the etched sides and folded up inner and sweat them together. Depending how near to the end a window is it can be quite tricky to avoid too much solder that would stop glazing fitting snuggly.
The truss rodding is the weak spot and I vary from adding the solebars first or bending the trusses down. Due to the trusses being part of the floor they do leave large holes which causes a fair bit of flex so I solder scrap brass to the floor to hold it all rigid. The trusses have a habit of distorting which could be because of the flex in the floor. It is easier to remove them and solder them in place.
That's the end of the etch so the rest is up to you :)

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Re: Atso's Carriage and Wagon Works
« Reply #263 on: February 07, 2019, 10:16:23 AM »
@Atso
Maybe it's more pertinent my knowledge of the parts making up a steam loco (and the differences between them) is severely lacking then, Steve :dunce: :-[

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Re: Atso's Carriage and Wagon Works
« Reply #264 on: February 07, 2019, 04:52:52 PM »
@Atso
Maybe it's more pertinent my knowledge of the parts making up a steam loco (and the differences between them) is severely lacking then, Steve :dunce: :-[

I wouldn't say that at all Mick. I honestly didn't know any of this before I started researching the class and designing it.

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Re: Atso's Carriage and Wagon Works
« Reply #265 on: February 07, 2019, 05:15:02 PM »
Hi Mick;

I would also say that my knowledge of locos, and railway operation, has been picked up over many years by reading about railways, observing what goes on, and studying photos of them.  It is perhaps unfortunate in a way for those of us who model steam or early diesel era that books concerning this time are probably slowly declining; I'm thinking of the likes of the RCTS History of LNER locos, the first volume of which I bought when I was at school around 1974; and albums by such people as Dr Ian Allen who published a number of books when he was alive, but I've seen no new ones since his death-though I might have missed any. I've posted some replies to questions on this Forum where the relevant information was in books probably long out of print, but are on my bookcase.

I have to admit that my interest in the 'real' railway declined quickly after Sectorisation and then Privatisation; no real reason, but I concentrated more on modelling (and a lesser extent, preservation) about the time Sectorisation started. But I still have interest in how the 'real' railway runs and operates.

It is fortunate that places such as this Forum exist and that many questions can be answered by some-one who has got the information available.

Martyn

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Re: Atso's Carriage and Wagon Works
« Reply #266 on: February 07, 2019, 06:50:12 PM »
Hi Mick;

I would also say that my knowledge of locos, and railway operation, has been picked up over many years by reading about railways, observing what goes on, and studying photos of them.  It is perhaps unfortunate in a way for those of us who model steam or early diesel era that books concerning this time are probably slowly declining; I'm thinking of the likes of the RCTS History of LNER locos, the first volume of which I bought when I was at school around 1974; and albums by such people as Dr Ian Allen who published a number of books when he was alive, but I've seen no new ones since his death-though I might have missed any. I've posted some replies to questions on this Forum where the relevant information was in books probably long out of print, but are on my bookcase.

I have to admit that my interest in the 'real' railway declined quickly after Sectorisation and then Privatisation; no real reason, but I concentrated more on modelling (and a lesser extent, preservation) about the time Sectorisation started. But I still have interest in how the 'real' railway runs and operates.

It is fortunate that places such as this Forum exist and that many questions can be answered by some-one who has got the information available.

Martyn

Yes, exactly Martyn. Despite new publications being very much in decline, the second hand trade is doing well and my main source for reference materials. I purchased my first volume of the RCTS LNER loco series back in 2006 when I came across the whole set in a local bookshop. I arranged with them to purchase a handful of volumes a month if they'd put the set aside for me. Sadly, the shop closed before I could purchase them all and it was until 2017 that I finally sourced the last volume to complete my set.

Another great source for LNER locomotives is the Yeadon's series of books. I've only got half a dozen volumes so far (I think there are 50 odd!) but they are great references for shed allocations, etc. Then you've got Tatlow's wagon volumes, Camplings and Harris's works on coaches, Ian Allen's three(?) LNER albums, The Big Four in Colour and countless other works. Not to mention the various societies and study the history of the railways and, of course, Isinglass drawings!

I wouldn't say I'm massively knowledgeable on things but I can often get my hands on suitable reference material. I've recently found out that some of the LNER's working timetables and stock formation lists still exist so that'll be the next big learning curve for suitable formations to run on Hadley Wood.

This might be much depth than others may wish to study but for me, the 'why' is often more important than the 'what'. That isn't to say I'm 100% set on prototypical operations, I have my 'funny trains' that I'd like to run and most of my RTR PO fleet aren't suitable companies for the New England to London route (but they're so nicely printed!).

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Re: Atso's Carriage and Wagon Works
« Reply #267 on: February 07, 2019, 06:53:58 PM »
Even so, if you have any pictures of how you've built these, it would be most appreciated by me.
Sorry, I didn't take any photos but I built them the same way as other Worsley Works coaches (at least 20 now).
First off after removing the floor I fold up the sides that the etched sides are to be attached to then fold up the inner ends and solder them on to the floor then add the outer ends. There are no guides so when doing this ensure the ends are the same distance apart as the etched sides are in length. Guess how I learnt this!
Tin the etched sides and folded up inner and sweat them together. Depending how near to the end a window is it can be quite tricky to avoid too much solder that would stop glazing fitting snuggly.
The truss rodding is the weak spot and I vary from adding the solebars first or bending the trusses down. Due to the trusses being part of the floor they do leave large holes which causes a fair bit of flex so I solder scrap brass to the floor to hold it all rigid. The trusses have a habit of distorting which could be because of the flex in the floor. It is easier to remove them and solder them in place.
That's the end of the etch so the rest is up to you :)

Thanks Gareth. I've exhausted the items on the first etch today and found a couple of the issues you describe. Mine didn't come with trusses surprisingly - I thought it would've been easy to add them as part of the floor etch. The sides are very flimsy so I think I'll either take them apart and make up some kind of former (like the Ultima Coaches) or remove the 'wings' from the floor pan and solder strengthening pieces onto the inside of the body; I'm undecided at the moment.

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Re: Atso's Carriage and Wagon Works
« Reply #268 on: February 14, 2019, 06:55:43 PM »
While I've been thinking of a better way to assemble the Worsley etches, my attention has been turned to some other types of coaches.

While flicking through the book 'LNER Passenger Trains and Formations', I came across some basic information about the 2.04pm Cambridge to King's Cross express. While the information regarding the coaches in the rake was somewhat vague, I did manage to work out that one of the coaches was an ancient Howlden Lavatory Composite and so I set to work designing the basics of one in CAD. Below is the resulting test print.



While I was designing this, I was fortunate that my efforts had come to the attention of John Smart (co-author of 'The Big Four in Colour'). Some correspondence revealed that he had a copy of the relevant page of the 1935 Carriage Working book and from this identified the other coaches in the formation (even some of the running numbers!). Here is the next coach to be designed for the rake.



While a Gresley coach, it is still of ex-GN origin. It is a D183 Lavatory Composite Brake of which I will need two for the rake.

The remaining three coaches are also ex-GN designs but are corridor types. Two are later Gresley bow roof vehicles but the last in another ancient design - complete with a clerestory roof! I need to obtain the relevant drawings from Isinglass Models before I can start work on those - the Howlden and D183 are both covered in Nick Campling's book 'Historic Carriage Drawings - Volume One, LNER and Constituents.

This is my first attempt to model a historically accurate formation of stock. It has been really fascinating to learn about it.

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Re: Atso's Carriage and Wagon Works
« Reply #269 on: February 14, 2019, 07:21:19 PM »
  :claphappy:

There is nothing better then being able to piece together pictures to ensure every detail is correct to enable something to be made.

In my quest for prototypically correct freight in my location and time frame my bookshelf has grown from 3 books to 26 since Christmas, 95% are second hand and at least 15years old some back to the early 80s and as old as me, all picked up for a few quid but the information included is priceless.

I wish I had your ability Steve to turn the handful of pictures for each item into a proper CAD and test print. That really would be phenomenal. Mine is all scrappy drawings, crude measurements guessed at times, plastruct, plasticard and a bit of brass thrown in to make it seem like im trying to be accurate.

Your ability in our hobby really is fantastic, just a crime your not a SR Modeller!! :claphappy:

 

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