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Author Topic: N gauge Cars (crowdfunded proposal)  (Read 10412 times)

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Offline woodbury22uk

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Re: N gauge Cars (crowdfunded proposal)
« Reply #30 on: July 28, 2016, 11:03:21 PM »
Good luck I may be interested in 1 pack 80's would have been better for me. I trust you will be able to get the appropriate licences to use these names. It is my understanding having spoken to others in the industry, including yourself in a past life that this can be difficult and costly. Would      hate to see you end up in court over this.


If the make and model names are registered as trade marks there might be an issue in using them. Remember the Farish Scenecraft cars used model names but not maker names, and the 5cwt van had no branding at all.
Mike

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Offline javlinfaw7

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Re: N gauge Cars (crowdfunded proposal)
« Reply #31 on: July 29, 2016, 12:18:27 AM »
The 5cwt van ,indeed most of the range did not deserve branding

Offline Chetcombe

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Re: N gauge Cars (crowdfunded proposal)
« Reply #32 on: July 29, 2016, 01:05:40 AM »
Great idea. Count me in for at least a couple of packs. Oh and very best of luck with this initiative!

Offline Bob G

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Re: N gauge Cars (crowdfunded proposal)
« Reply #33 on: July 29, 2016, 01:24:55 AM »
Hmmm those Ford Transits are quite costly. At £11.50 approx. for a van or £19 for a van and a minibus, I could see myself spending £225 on FUD bodies alone.
Mind you, they wont rust...but they might not take the paint that well either  :D

Had better wait and see what Dave and the NGS each come up with, as the price point could come down a lot from there.

Offline woodbury22uk

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Re: N gauge Cars (crowdfunded proposal)
« Reply #34 on: July 29, 2016, 08:54:52 AM »
The 5cwt van ,indeed most of the range did not deserve branding


There seems to be a sizeable problem in getting N gauge cars to look anything like the original they are based on. Oxford struggle, Farish failed miserably, and this Herpa Fiat has barely a passing resemblance to the Panda. http://www.herpa.de/collect/(S(ljgh3jroxffpl5kemovmkwtj))/hitlist.aspx?lang=en-GB&collection=Cars&thumb=1&express=1&maxRecords=20&sk_hersteller_e=Fiat

Wiking seem to do better generally, especially with the recent VWs.

And some of the white metal ones are definitely from the dark ages:-

http://www.pdmarshmodels.com/show_product.php?pid=267
Mike

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Offline johnlambert

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Re: N gauge Cars (crowdfunded proposal)
« Reply #35 on: July 29, 2016, 10:52:48 AM »
The 5cwt van ,indeed most of the range did not deserve branding


There seems to be a sizeable problem in getting N gauge cars to look anything like the original they are based on. Oxford struggle, Farish failed miserably, and this Herpa Fiat has barely a passing resemblance to the Panda. http://www.herpa.de/collect/(S(ljgh3jroxffpl5kemovmkwtj))/hitlist.aspx?lang=en-GB&collection=Cars&thumb=1&express=1&maxRecords=20&sk_hersteller_e=Fiat

Wiking seem to do better generally, especially with the recent VWs.

And some of the white metal ones are definitely from the dark ages:-

http://www.pdmarshmodels.com/show_product.php?pid=267


There are some truly terrible 'N scale' vehicles out there.  Most of Oxford's output isn't bad, the R Parker whitemetal cars are pretty good and so are the RailNScale 3D prints.

I vaguely remember a car designer telling me that the three crucial elements in any successful design were proportion, line and form.  I suspect that it is very challenging getting these elements in balance when you've scaled the real thing down to 1:144th the original size.  A fraction of a millimetre out on a N scale car is quite a big error compared with the size of the car itself.

I also suspect that our eyesight tricks us, another card designer friend admitted to me that the dimensions on the scaled down styling models he and his colleagues produced were adjusted so that they looked right.  And It is (I think) fairly well known that Corgi (or was it Dinky?) adjusted the proportions on some of its toy cars because otherwise they didn't 'look right'.

My preference would be for something that I know is scaled correctly rather than something messed about with to meet someone's aesthetic ideals, but that may just be me.

Offline Steven B

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Re: N gauge Cars (crowdfunded proposal)
« Reply #36 on: July 29, 2016, 12:28:42 PM »
I'd see £3-5 per car to be the price to aim for - i.e. something around the price Oxford Diecast cars sell for. Much more and train loads become unaffordable.

The problem DJM with have is there are two different markets. One for cars to populate layouts and Motorail services where five different cars in a pack is to be welcomed. However, those like myself wanting to fill Cartics or Carflats with a factory train would want multiple models of the same car type. Having to mess about finding someone to swap with, or searching eBay isn't something I have time for and would rather just carry on running my trains empty.

Happy modelling.

Steven B.

Offline Trainfish

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Re: N gauge Cars (crowdfunded proposal)
« Reply #37 on: July 30, 2016, 11:57:02 AM »
I would prefer mk3, 4, 5 Cortinas, Fiestas, Granadas, Cavaliers, Metros, Avengers, Princesses, etc but I'd probably have a couple of these packs too. I think up to £6 a car would be acceptable.
John

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Offline DJM Dave

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Re: N gauge Cars (crowdfunded proposal)
« Reply #38 on: July 30, 2016, 12:46:33 PM »
Hi,

I think your right Steven B, and I think the way round it will be to produce packs with 1 single design at a later date.

That could be the ideal answer, but we have a long way to go to meet 3000 orders to make the project viable.

I'll look at doing an 'expressions of interest' page on my website, which I can use over say a 3 month period to see if this is viable.

Worth noting is that unless i increase the RRP for 'normal sales' (not crowdfunded) availability in the shops may be a heck of a long way off due to the economics of doing this.

The problem being to tooling. I'll only use hard steel, not rubbish softer steel or aluminium which are no good for long runs, and the fact that the undercuts etc of the models don't leave any room for skimping. As such either a 'kit' type body could be the answer but the assembly and gaps etc would be prohibitive and look silly, or you go the correct way and use a collapsing tool which is very expensive.

Take a look at a car next time  a chance. Angles, curves, sticky out bits, bits that go inwards. They are a tooling nightmare. And although not impossible, they are costly to replicate. And I'm not going to do them if I can't produce an accurate representation of the real thing, as it just isn't worth it.

No metal lump approximations, or scale problems for me.

So, in a few days I'll post  the expressions page link on my web site and then it's over to you and fellow N gauge modellers.

We can then all judge if there really is a market for scale UK outline vehicles in a good range of colours.

Cheers
Dave
N gauge Model Railway locomotive and rolling stock manufacturer.

Offline MKP

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Re: N gauge Cars (crowdfunded proposal)
« Reply #39 on: July 30, 2016, 01:18:43 PM »
Aren't some of Oxford Diecast's latest releases plastic rather than metal? might be worth finding out which metal they use for the tooling or you might already be aware which, as they can produce them for RRP£3.95, and £3.95 for a car from Oxford would have to be your ultimate aim? How many units would you want to get out of the tooling before it was no good?

the other question would be what number do Oxford produce a vehicle in to get it at £3.95?
 
I know from personal experience that to do a special run of an already existing tooled vehicle we would have had to commit to 3000 units

Offline DJM Dave

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Re: N gauge Cars (crowdfunded proposal)
« Reply #40 on: July 30, 2016, 01:36:44 PM »
Well at around £20 for 5 vehicles it would be about £4.00 each
So a good take up would ensure that.

No idea what tools Oxford use.

The MOQ from the factory would be 500 at a single colour each ( 1 blue, 1 mustard yellow, 1 green etc to make the pack of 5)

3000 is Mickey Mouse in my opinion and more hopeful rather than anything else.
Heck if you wanted a run of 250, I could do that but the pack price goes up accordingly.

HTH
Cheers
Dave

N gauge Model Railway locomotive and rolling stock manufacturer.

Offline steve836

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Re: N gauge Cars (crowdfunded proposal)
« Reply #41 on: July 30, 2016, 05:10:32 PM »
I would certainly be interested and prepared to take at least one pack, maybe more if they look good in the flesh. Have you thought though of approaching Oxford to see if they would take an order to make a model which is currently outside of their range and how many you would need to guarantee to take to make it worthwhile?
KISS = Keep it simple stupid

Offline woodbury22uk

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Re: N gauge Cars (crowdfunded proposal)
« Reply #42 on: July 30, 2016, 10:00:32 PM »
Piecing together information from a few different sources it looks like the minimum order size for a recolour of an existing model is 3000, and a new mould around 15000 models.
Mike

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Offline DJM Dave

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Re: N gauge Cars (crowdfunded proposal)
« Reply #43 on: July 31, 2016, 11:42:15 AM »
Not sure where you got those figures from but trust me, they are incorrect.

My minimum is much smaller, and into double figures if you want to go really small but for a bigger cost.

Tooling amortisation quantity shrinks as I have shown in my original pricing.
Cheers
Dave
N gauge Model Railway locomotive and rolling stock manufacturer.

Offline woodbury22uk

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Re: N gauge Cars (crowdfunded proposal)
« Reply #44 on: July 31, 2016, 12:25:43 PM »
I was talking about what Oxford require, Dave, in response to Steve836's suggestion. If you have better and lower quantity quotes from Oxford then that is great, but surprising.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2016, 12:28:20 PM by woodbury22uk »
Mike

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