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Author Topic: Tender to loco wires  (Read 2104 times)

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Offline potts

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Tender to loco wires
« on: June 11, 2016, 02:16:06 PM »
 Is there a need for the wires on Dapol steam locos?

Offline PLD

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Re: Tender to loco wires
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2016, 02:29:01 PM »
Is there a need for the wires on Dapol steam locos?

The wires are there to transmit current from the pickups on the loco wheels to the motor in the tender. As there are also pickups on one or two tender axles (the others have traction tyres) in theory the loco will run without them, however relying on just one or two axle pickup will be much less reliable and more prone to stalling for example on dead frog points...

Offline potts

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Re: Tender to loco wires
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2016, 02:38:00 PM »
Thank you for a precise reply, may also cause a stutter when running to do you think.

Offline trkilliman

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Re: Tender to loco wires
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2016, 03:01:40 PM »
I'm sure many will agree these wires and their flimsy nature are an absolute pain in the backside. I have a Brittania that has scarcely been really run in (but is out of warranty) and the said wires became unattached. I may pluck up the courage to have a go at repairing it, or chicken out and take it to a shop for repair.

These flimsy wires and the kordon shaft are two elements of Dapol design that, IMO, now leaves their steam locos trailing behind those of Farish. It is said that Dapol are working on a coreless motor to be fitted to their upcoming Southern B.O.B. class locos.  I tend to think that if it were not for Farish striding ahead with a coreless loco motor, Dapol would have been content to continue with their mechanisms...irrespective of their shortcomings. I have had no problems with Dapol panniers (thus far)

I hope that Dapol do up their game in a few respects, as having two British outline manufacturers in contention fends off complacency that can arise with a monopoly.

Offline potts

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Re: Tender to loco wires
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2016, 03:10:15 PM »
I'm sure many will agree these wires and their flimsy nature are an absolute pain in the backside. I have a Brittania that has scarcely been really run in (but is out of warranty) and the said wires became unattached. I may pluck up the courage to have a go at repairing it, or chicken out and take it to a shop for repair.

These flimsy wires and the kordon shaft are two elements of Dapol design that, IMO, now leaves their steam locos trailing behind those of Farish. It is said that Dapol are working on a coreless motor to be fitted to their upcoming Southern B.O.B. class locos.  I tend to think that if it were not for Farish striding ahead with a coreless loco motor, Dapol would have been content to continue with their mechanisms...irrespective of their shortcomings. I have had no problems with Dapol panniers (thus far)

I hope that Dapol do up their game in a few respects, as having two British outline manufacturers in contention fends off complacency that can arise with a monopoly.
I totally agree with you, the wires are easy enough to change, dont tighten them to much, there are usually a spare set in the detail pack.

Offline Les1952

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Re: Tender to loco wires
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2016, 11:09:04 PM »
Oddly enough I've two examples, both from this week, that might indicate these wires may be stronger than we thought.

I bought a Britannia on eBay.  "The cat had got it".  Loco to tender drawbar was broken, and the screw holding it in at the tender end had the cross stripped out of the top.  BUT- the loco to tender wires were unbroken.  Given that I have no spare Brit drawbar (which is different at the tender end to all Dapol's others) it has gone to DCC Supplies to be fixed.  I still will have a good Britannia for a lot less than a new one...

Found in my loco box as I set up at Quorn yesterday, one of my A4s with drive shaft missing and loco to tender drawbar snapped.  I can't remember dropping it, or putting it away in that condition at the end of the Manchester show.  However, again, the loco to tender wires were intact.  This one I repaired with a spare drawbar ( from an NQP bought fro spares) and drive shaft and it ran this afternoon at the GCR Quorn show.

Les

Offline SouthernJohn

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Re: Tender to loco wires
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2017, 10:24:17 PM »
I have had a few go, my poor Flying Fox presently needs to have a new one added :P Has anybody had a go at repairing with a little bit of wire from home?

Offline robert shrives

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Re: Tender to loco wires
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2017, 04:44:14 AM »
Hi
Most Dapol bits bags now have a spare pair of connecting wires with the small tags soldered on. Screw damage can be a problem but the old trick of a fraction twist to tighten before undoing has freed several for me.

If you have like the 9F got a wire soldered to pickup plate on the loco - it can be bent gently from chassis side - slip a piece of paper under it and with a small glass fibre brush  clean paint off and remove wire with a small pointed tip iron- antex do a selection of bits - try Squires or Maplins. To have the right tip will make job in the doddle grouping.

One tip for protecting model is to make a baking foil protector piece- wrapping 9F cab and footplate will protect from a slipped tip should it occur. On the early 73 with wiring in roof this was the only way to gain safe access with an iron to remove failed diodes/ light units.

have fun
Robert   

Offline bigmac

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Re: Tender to loco wires
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2018, 12:55:58 PM »
dapol 2800.
i bought one 2nd hand -ebay--a couple of months ago. looked very nice--ran ok--but noisy--and top speed about 30 . but very good crawler.
then it became very jerky--hit and miss. ive found the problem--poor pick up--to be precise--the very thin black wire from loco to tender had broken off. almost the size of a hair.

ive managed to use a couple of threads of very fine copper wire--twisted together--fashioned tiny loops for the little screws to go through---and somehow got then screwed back in. works well now--crawls smoothly--pulls well and can get up to about 60.
i hope i can source the correct wire and spare screws.
i used to be indecisive...but now i'm not so sure.

Offline bigmac

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Re: Tender to loco wires
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2018, 01:13:49 PM »
Hi
Most Dapol bits bags now have a spare pair of connecting wires with the small tags soldered on. Screw damage can be a problem but the old trick of a fraction twist to tighten before undoing has freed several for me.

If you have like the 9F got a wire soldered to pickup plate on the loco - it can be bent gently from chassis side - slip a piece of paper under it and with a small glass fibre brush  clean paint off and remove wire with a small pointed tip iron- antex do a selection of bits - try Squires or Maplins. To have the right tip will make job in the doddle grouping.

One tip for protecting model is to make a baking foil protector piece- wrapping 9F cab and footplate will protect from a slipped tip should it occur. On the early 73 with wiring in roof this was the only way to gain safe access with an iron to remove failed diodes/ light units.

have fun
Robert   
  yes--found the bag--and indeed there is a spare wire in there--plus a traction tyre and the tool to undo the axle nut.  is that a not too difficult job ?
i used to be indecisive...but now i'm not so sure.

Offline Bramshot

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Re: Tender to loco wires
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2018, 05:47:44 PM »
 You can get heavy duty wires as spares from dcc supplies.  Not that they are much better, I have replaced some of mine with thin multi strand decoder wire with tinned loops at the ends. I think the you find them by looking at universal steam spares.

I found the axle nut tool wonít fit the centre wheel nuts, if you ever have cause to remove or tighten them. Had to buy the 1.8 mm spinner from dcc supplies. I found when replacing traction tyre that I couldnít work them under the loco body to get them on the wheel, there must be a technique that I havenít mastered. Had to remove the entire body to fit the tyres, a real PITA job. (Thatís on the A4).

There was, a reference to coreless motors further up the page. I have modified three of my A4 Ďs with them now, kits available from tramfabreik.nl. Transformed the locos. Also works on other Dapol tender drive locos.

Offline Les1952

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Re: Tender to loco wires
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2018, 01:05:34 PM »
I find that the loco to tender wires are a bit of a pain but not that difficult to do.  On average I lose one about every third show.  That is from a box containing fourteen A4s, fifteen A3s, eight B1s and four Britannias.  I also havean analogue box with two more each of A4, B1 and 9F plus a Hall and a Schools, none of which have yet suffered a broken wire.

I do find that the Farish spring wires on the side of the drawbar are more susceptable to minor damage- getting twisted if a ham fisted operator is less than careful lifting the loco.  They don't break but do get bent out of contact.  Ham fisted handling will pop a Dapol drive shaft a long time before wires will break. 

As to fixing them you need a small cross-headed screwdriver that has been lightly magnetised.  That is to keep the screw on the screwdriver while you chase the wire loop into place.  B1s (and presumably any others with smaller tenders) are more difficult as the loco needs to be held upside down with the base of the loco and the base of the tender at the same level.

The new coreless loco-mounted motors won't stop the need for loco to tender wires.  On a steamer you really need tender pickups as well as those on the loco.  Just look at Farish, Minitrix, Hobbytrain et al.  You also need loco to tender wires if the decoder is in the tender.


The eight Dapol B1s waiting routine servicing ready for Warley.

Les



« Last Edit: November 07, 2018, 01:08:54 PM by Les1952, Reason: added pic »

 

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