!!

Not Registered?

Welcome!  Please register to view all of the new posts and forum boards - some of which are hidden to guests.  After registering and gaining 10 posts you will be able to sell and buy items on our N'porium.

If you have any problems registering, then please check your spam filter before emailing us.  Hotmail users seem to find their emails in the Junk folder.


Thanks for reading,
The NGF Staff.

Author Topic: Shapeways 3d printing help.  (Read 5550 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline nosomosnada

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 16273
  • Posts: 20
  • Country: es
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Shapeways 3d printing help.
« on: December 31, 2011, 10:16:29 AM »
Hi.

As I said in my introduction post, I'm working in a project for 'printing' a staton building in 3D, and prototype I've chosen is Brimscombe.

I've never printed anything in 3D, and I've been reading a lot of information in Shapeways forum, but I think information it's too difuse, so I'd like to know if anyone has worked in N scale, (maybe with buildings) and could give me some advice about materials, tolerences, level of detail, etc...

This is an image of station walls, the first part of building I've almost finished (it seems stl file is right):



Wall thickness is 1mm, and bricks are around 2,5mm x 0,6mm, with gaps of 0,2mm.  Printed in 'white strong & flexible' it costs around 9, but i don't know if this material has enough strength with 1mm thickness, (dimensiones are 13cm, x 5cm. x 2.5 cm) and 'resolution', because 'frosted detail' would cost more than 20... and it's too expensive, in my opinion.

Other option would be 3d printing walls with no detail of bricks, except in corners, and use scalescenes brick textures printed in adhesive sticks... but I'd like to test 'brick' printing odds.

Well, I would appreciate any suggestions or comments about this project...
« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 09:10:11 AM by nosomosnada »

Offline Tank

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+30)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7429
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Shapeways 3d printing help.
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2011, 10:37:54 AM »
Great work.

I've never tried 3D Printing, but I know that NTrain and Moogle on here have.  Plus a couple of other members who I can't think of.

Offline NTrain

  • Advertiser
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 13925
  • 2mm Association Number: 4102
  • Posts: 1101
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Ebay
    • Facebook
    • Twitter
    • N-Train
    • Awards
Re: Shapeways 3d printing help.
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2011, 10:49:06 AM »
WSF should be strong enough for your purposes. The down side is the lack of fine detail. However, a building would not be smooth anyway.

The FUD material does allow for finer detail, but has been known to 'warp' with longer lengths.

Offline EtchedPixels

  • Advertiser
  • Trade Count: (+44)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 16353
  • 2mm Association Number: 4412
  • Posts: 8382
  • Country: wales
  • Gender: Male
    • Ebay
    • Google+
    • Twitter
    • YouTube
    • Etched Pixels
    • Awards
Re: Shapeways 3d printing help.
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2011, 03:00:41 PM »
Are you windows going to be sufficiently inset - 6" seems a fairly thin wall for a real building ?
"Knowledge has no value or use for the solitary owner: to be enjoyed it must be communicated" -- Charles Pratt, 1st Earl Camden

Offline nosomosnada

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 16273
  • Posts: 20
  • Country: es
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Shapeways 3d printing help.
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2012, 11:13:18 AM »
WSF should be strong enough for your purposes. The down side is the lack of fine detail. However, a building would not be smooth anyway.

The FUD material does allow for finer detail, but has been known to 'warp' with longer lengths.

Thank you for the information.  I think I', going to try WSF.

Quote
Are you windows going to be sufficiently inset - 6" seems a fairly thin wall for a real building ?

Yes.

Walls are going to be 1mm. thick because, as I'm going to 'print' building as a whole block, I think that it would be difficult to work with inner walls, so I'm going to work with inner walls as detached parts (with 1mm balsa wood or plasticard, or maybe printing in 3d too, I don't know yet) to cover with printed textures or paint, and in addition, to insert a piece of 'acetate' between outer and inner wall (as Scalescenes kits).
« Last Edit: January 02, 2012, 11:16:51 AM by nosomosnada »

Offline Stevie DC

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2181
  • Country: 00
    • Awards
Re: Shapeways 3d printing help.
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2012, 09:28:08 PM »
I've been playing around with 3D printing for a few years now, mainly with Shapeways.

WSF as previously pointed out will not give the fine detail of FUD and you may need to deeped and widen the morter courses slightly to ensure these come out. When working with WSF I do not try and print any detail below 0.25mm (and even this doesn't come out every time!).

FUD is far better but as you said its expensive, and Shapeways has a backlog and some minor quality issues at present.

Another alternative is Prime Grey from iMaterialize, slightly expensive and not quite as detailed as FUD but I've had far fewer problems cleaning up prints (removing the stepping effect) from them and now my printer of choice.

Offline MikeDunn

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 21391
  • Posts: 3102
    • Awards
Re: Shapeways 3d printing help.
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2012, 09:34:51 PM »
What temperature can these 3D printed items resist ... ?

I am hoping to have a need this year for loco bodies that can cope with high temps !

Mike

Offline EtchedPixels

  • Advertiser
  • Trade Count: (+44)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 16353
  • 2mm Association Number: 4412
  • Posts: 8382
  • Country: wales
  • Gender: Male
    • Ebay
    • Google+
    • Twitter
    • YouTube
    • Etched Pixels
    • Awards
Re: Shapeways 3d printing help.
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2012, 10:44:39 PM »
What temperature can these 3D printed items resist ... ?

I am hoping to have a need this year for loco bodies that can cope with high temps !

Mike

If you are planning to go 3D print -> cleanup -> white metal then the problem is more likely to be pressure. Low temperature can be done, and I've done various masters in plastic or mixed plastic/other materials. In fact I've just received back the tests for 313, 317/2 and 'Nelson' cab ends, all of which came from all or partially plastic masters and they are as good as come off brass masters.

The process is:

one off plastic etc master, cast to white metal using one of the mould materials intended for low temperature casting, then making some of those, picking the best, doing final tweaks and then casting rubber moulds from those. The rubber moulds last, the others don't - also handily the rubber moulds tend to shrink 1-2% while the masters grow by 1 or 2% in the first step.

P&D Marsh or other casters who do 3rd party castings and moulding should be able to tell you what you'll need. My biggest worry would be pressure though - especially if it contained any voids.

There are a lot of other complicated and subtle issues for big castings to avoid distortion, twisting and bending, marks from shrinkage etc, but as I've never had any white metal components bigger than a coach end I've merely looked in that direction, thought 'scary' and left well alone !

"Knowledge has no value or use for the solitary owner: to be enjoyed it must be communicated" -- Charles Pratt, 1st Earl Camden

Offline MikeDunn

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 21391
  • Posts: 3102
    • Awards
Re: Shapeways 3d printing help.
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2012, 08:31:12 PM »
Hmmm ...  Cheers for the info on P&D Marsh - I've passed this onto a colleague !

Offline nosomosnada

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 16273
  • Posts: 20
  • Country: es
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Shapeways 3d printing help.
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2012, 08:46:04 PM »
Anyone could help me with interior floorplan of Brimscombe station?

I've got many books of british stations architecture, but I haven't found any information about small stations interior distribution.



Thanks in advance.


Offline Stew2000

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 185
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • PhotoBucket
    • Awards
Re: Shapeways 3d printing help.
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2012, 04:06:32 PM »
Is there any UK based 3D Printing companies that anyone can recommend?

Offline EtchedPixels

  • Advertiser
  • Trade Count: (+44)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 16353
  • 2mm Association Number: 4412
  • Posts: 8382
  • Country: wales
  • Gender: Male
    • Ebay
    • Google+
    • Twitter
    • YouTube
    • Etched Pixels
    • Awards
Re: Shapeways 3d printing help.
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2012, 06:03:05 PM »
Is there any UK based 3D Printing companies that anyone can recommend?

Shapeways are a ton cheaper than UK one I've found, and online, and so on.
"Knowledge has no value or use for the solitary owner: to be enjoyed it must be communicated" -- Charles Pratt, 1st Earl Camden

Offline Stew2000

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 185
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • PhotoBucket
    • Awards
Re: Shapeways 3d printing help.
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2012, 03:46:29 PM »
I made a "sprue" of Hook Couplings. and the automated robot at shapeways says it's the incorrect size. any ideas?
My software says the whole thing is about 60x40mm.


Offline NTrain

  • Advertiser
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 13925
  • 2mm Association Number: 4102
  • Posts: 1101
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Ebay
    • Facebook
    • Twitter
    • N-Train
    • Awards
Re: Shapeways 3d printing help.
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2012, 04:25:33 PM »
The favourite thing is to have something too thin.

For example, the 'sprue' looks very thin. They also have a minimum depth of printing which varies from machine to machine.

Offline moogle

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 5694
  • Posts: 1397
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad as a hatter and proud!
    • PhotoBucket
    • Awards
Re: Shapeways 3d printing help.
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2012, 04:51:16 PM »
Anyone could help me with interior floorplan of Brimscombe station?

I've got many books of british stations architecture, but I haven't found any information about small stations interior distribution.



Thanks in advance.


Hi, just read this thread.
Done a bit of 3D printing myself but still a novice.
Atso is the one to ask, a pro compared to me!

In response to the above question it really varies from station to station.
Generaly think of benches against walls, clocks on walls, posters and perhaps a mirror.
Can't really go wrong then. Also, some had refreshment rooms with tables and chairs.
There's no set rules but I hope that helps.
Personal motto: You don't have to be mad to be a modeller, but I find it helps!

My Irish layout here

My Edwardian Seaside Layout here

My Backscene painting tutorial here

 

Please Support Us!
April Goal: £60.00
Due Date: Apr 30
Total Receipts: £30.00
Below Goal: £30.00
Site Currency: GBP
50% 
April Donations


Advertise Here
anything
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal