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Author Topic: Longframlington (Northumbrian branch line)  (Read 56481 times)

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Offline Bealman

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Re: Longframlington (and this time I mean it) - Border country, 1963
« Reply #105 on: June 28, 2016, 11:21:35 AM »
The lack of weight, particularly with Peco wagons, has always been problematic.
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

Offline belstone

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Re: Longframlington (and this time I mean it) - Border country, 1963
« Reply #106 on: June 29, 2016, 12:03:59 AM »
To borrow an old British Rail slogan "We're getting there".  Engineers' possession this evening saw two short sections of track lifted for the installation of the vertical Mk3 uncoupling magnets.  This involved excavating trenches in the MDF board which was not easy.  With the track reinstated I thought I would put in the expansion gaps in the loop roads while I was at it, which meant soldering in half a dozen new wire droppers, including the two which I didn't realise I needed until I ran a test loco and it stopped dead half way along the loop.





Moment of truth - I coupled up D5307 to my five most trustworthy wagons, ran the train into the station and started shunting.  Not a single glitch - no stalling, no derailments, no turnout operating problems, and 100% reliable coupling and uncoupling.  This might just be a fluke, but looking good at the moment.  I have ordered lots more wheels to replace the ones with steel axles / tyres, and will have a play with back to back settings to reduce the tendency for wagons to be skewed sideways by the pull of the magnets.  Then I can have a really serious extended operating session, and if that all goes well it will soon be time to start doing scenic stuff.


Offline Chris in Prague

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Re: Longframlington (and this time I mean it) - Border country, 1963
« Reply #107 on: June 29, 2016, 08:54:04 AM »
Excellent progress. Thanks for the detailed update.

Offline kirky

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Re: Longframlington (and this time I mean it) - Border country, 1963
« Reply #108 on: June 29, 2016, 08:57:14 PM »
Hi Richard
Please please can you give us some video of the D 5307 going over the points.
And uncoupling/coupling,if poss.
Ta
Kirky
Northallerton will make its next public appearance at the LINCOLN MODEL RAILWAY CLUB ANNUAL EXHIBITION Feb 29th -1st Mar 2020



Layout: Northallerton: http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=1671.msg16930#msg16930

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Offline belstone

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Re: Longframlington (and this time I mean it) - Border country, 1963
« Reply #109 on: June 29, 2016, 09:42:47 PM »
Hi Richard
Please please can you give us some video of the D 5307 going over the points.
And uncoupling/coupling,if poss.
Ta
Kirky

I'll try and do that soon, but Longfram has just been on a journey and is currently in the boot of my car.  I thought I would take it along to the club night to see if it would cope with being moved, not to mention bounced around on rough Norfolk country roads. Good as gold it was: over about an hour's running I had two derailments (both at the same place), two failures to uncouple (same wagon both times) and two failures to couple up (two different wagons).  All this in a noisy room with people watching intently and firing questions at me. The Finetrax got a bit of attention, the MT couplers a lot more.   If the layout behaved that well at an exhibition I'd be more than happy. The coupling / uncoupling issues are down to trip pin adjustment and slightly narrow back to backs on a couple of wagons: the derailments I think were caused by a switch blade not quite closing properly (on the cattle dock road, again.  That road is cursed I tell you.)

Something makes me think I'm overdue for some bad luck on this one: I've never had N gauge running anything like this well before. Let's see what happens when I start ballasting the track.

Offline belstone

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Re: Longframlington (and this time I mean it) - Border country, 1963
« Reply #110 on: June 29, 2016, 09:47:42 PM »
Oh, and everyone took the mickey out of my steel-framed baseboards (except Warren, who offered to help carry one of them from the car and now has a sprained wrist).

Offline Chris in Prague

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Re: Longframlington (and this time I mean it) - Border country, 1963
« Reply #111 on: June 29, 2016, 10:18:49 PM »
Sounds very good, apart from the sprained wrist. 8-(

Offline kirky

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Re: Longframlington (and this time I mean it) - Border country, 1963
« Reply #112 on: June 29, 2016, 10:24:33 PM »
Excellent Richard. So pleased the running is good.
Do you have any 2 mil modellers in your club. Just wondered what they thought?
Thanks
Kirky
Northallerton will make its next public appearance at the LINCOLN MODEL RAILWAY CLUB ANNUAL EXHIBITION Feb 29th -1st Mar 2020



Layout: Northallerton: http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=1671.msg16930#msg16930

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Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Longframlington (and this time I mean it) - Border country, 1963
« Reply #113 on: June 30, 2016, 09:50:30 AM »
The coupling / uncoupling issues are down to trip pin adjustment and slightly narrow back to backs on a couple of wagons

Oh dear. You'll have to help me out there please. How can B2B affect coupling/uncoupling? :confused2:

Offline belstone

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Re: Longframlington (and this time I mean it) - Border country, 1963
« Reply #114 on: June 30, 2016, 11:54:59 AM »
The coupling / uncoupling issues are down to trip pin adjustment and slightly narrow back to backs on a couple of wagons

Oh dear. You'll have to help me out there please. How can B2B affect coupling/uncoupling? :confused2:

On a short wheelbase wagon, if the BtoB is too narrow, the whole wagon can skew sideways on the rails, which means the couplers no longer line up with each other.  Using the delayed uncoupling feature stops the wagon from settling back into the straight ahead position when it is being propelled. So if you want to uncouple one wagon, propel it into a siding using the delayed uncoupling feature and then couple it up to another wagon and leave it there (which is what I was doing), it will crab along the track and when you buffer it up to the second wagon the knuckles will be out of line.  Possibly easier to see in action than to explain.  I'm going to push the BtoBs out as far as I can (possibly 7.5mm or even more) - basically as far as I can go without the flanges clouting the nose of the crossing frog and derailing.  It's one of the reasons I abandoned the MT couplers when I was using Peco track - the checkrails are set too wide to get away with anything much wider than the NEM standard 7.4mm.  My checkrails are fairly close to the 2mm FS standard, which means they won't take older stock or anything much narrower than 7.4mm.  It's all a bit fiddly but hopefully worth the effort.

Offline belstone

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Re: Longframlington (and this time I mean it) - Border country, 1963
« Reply #115 on: June 30, 2016, 12:01:07 PM »
Excellent Richard. So pleased the running is good.
Do you have any 2 mil modellers in your club. Just wondered what they thought?
Thanks
Kirky

Sadly not, although if we had any they'd point out that my rails are too close together.  We only have three N gauge modellers in total, and the other two are strictly Peco Streamline. I was seriously thinking about going 2mm FS, but with the way this is running at the moment I'm not sure I need to.

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Longframlington (and this time I mean it) - Border country, 1963
« Reply #116 on: June 30, 2016, 03:47:29 PM »
The coupling / uncoupling issues are down to trip pin adjustment and slightly narrow back to backs on a couple of wagons

Oh dear. You'll have to help me out there please. How can B2B affect coupling/uncoupling? :confused2:

On a short wheelbase wagon, if the BtoB is too narrow, the whole wagon can skew sideways on the rails, which means the couplers no longer line up with each other.

Thanks for the explanation, Richard. I have the Dapol easi shunts to apply to layouts yet and had not heard anyone mention the B2B as being an issue but what you say makes sense.
I'm hoping to be able to saw the magnets in half so as not to have such an enormous gap in the sleepers.

Offline kirky

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Re: Longframlington (and this time I mean it) - Border country, 1963
« Reply #117 on: June 30, 2016, 06:41:27 PM »
Excellent Richard. So pleased the running is good.
Do you have any 2 mil modellers in your club. Just wondered what they thought?
Thanks
Kirky

Sadly not, although if we had any they'd point out that my rails are too close together.  We only have three N gauge modellers in total, and the other two are strictly Peco Streamline. I was seriously thinking about going 2mm FS, but with the way this is running at the moment I'm not sure I need to.
I was thinking my next venture would have been 2 mil, but then finetrax appeared. No new wheels!
Having operated an EM thing at York this year, I can only say that screwlink couplings are completely evil. 3 link arent so bad, and work better when you wear your glasses. KDs which might be a bit like MTs (not sure if I'm correct here, but from your description it sounds like it) are quite temperamental at the best of times. And they only ever work on straight sections of track.

Cheers
Kirky
Northallerton will make its next public appearance at the LINCOLN MODEL RAILWAY CLUB ANNUAL EXHIBITION Feb 29th -1st Mar 2020



Layout: Northallerton: http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=1671.msg16930#msg16930

www.northallertonngauge.co.uk

Cleveland Model Railway club website: www.clevelandmrc.club

Offline kirky

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Re: Longframlington (and this time I mean it) - Border country, 1963
« Reply #118 on: June 30, 2016, 06:45:58 PM »
The coupling / uncoupling issues are down to trip pin adjustment and slightly narrow back to backs on a couple of wagons

Oh dear. You'll have to help me out there please. How can B2B affect coupling/uncoupling? :confused2:

On a short wheelbase wagon, if the BtoB is too narrow, the whole wagon can skew sideways on the rails, which means the couplers no longer line up with each other.

Thanks for the explanation, Richard. I have the Dapol easi shunts to apply to layouts yet and had not heard anyone mention the B2B as being an issue but what you say makes sense.
I'm hoping to be able to saw the magnets in half so as not to have such an enormous gap in the sleepers.
Excellent Richard. So pleased the running is good.
Do you have any 2 mil modellers in your club. Just wondered what they thought?
Thanks
Kirky

Sadly not, although if we had any they'd point out that my rails are too close together.  We only have three N gauge modellers in total, and the other two are strictly Peco Streamline. I was seriously thinking about going 2mm FS, but with the way this is running at the moment I'm not sure I need to.
I was thinking my next venture would have been 2 mil, but then finetrax appeared. No new wheels!
Having operated an EM thing at York this year, I can only say that screwlink couplings are completely evil. 3 link arent so bad, and work better when you wear your glasses. KDs which might be a bit like MTs (not sure if I'm correct here, but from your description it sounds like it) are quite temperamental at the best of times. And they only ever work on straight sections of track.

Cheers
Kirky
The coupling / uncoupling issues are down to trip pin adjustment and slightly narrow back to backs on a couple of wagons

Oh dear. You'll have to help me out there please. How can B2B affect coupling/uncoupling? :confused2:

On a short wheelbase wagon, if the BtoB is too narrow, the whole wagon can skew sideways on the rails, which means the couplers no longer line up with each other.

Thanks for the explanation, Richard. I have the Dapol easi shunts to apply to layouts yet and had not heard anyone mention the B2B as being an issue but what you say makes sense.
I'm hoping to be able to saw the magnets in half so as not to have such an enormous gap in the sleepers.
I've tried the dapol easishunts which are quite nice. However, I think the best magnets to use are the tiny little neodymium magnets. They're cheap enogh, and it'll save bother trying to cut the dapol magnets in half, which is a pain. However, I think Richard found that MTs are very sensitive to magnetic strength?
Cheers
Kirky
Northallerton will make its next public appearance at the LINCOLN MODEL RAILWAY CLUB ANNUAL EXHIBITION Feb 29th -1st Mar 2020



Layout: Northallerton: http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=1671.msg16930#msg16930

www.northallertonngauge.co.uk

Cleveland Model Railway club website: www.clevelandmrc.club

Offline belstone

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Re: Longframlington (and this time I mean it) - Border country, 1963
« Reply #119 on: June 30, 2016, 07:12:06 PM »
KDs which might be a bit like MTs (not sure if I'm correct here, but from your description it sounds like it) are quite temperamental at the best of times. And they only ever work on straight sections of track.

I've tried the dapol easishunts which are quite nice. However, I think the best magnets to use are the tiny little neodymium magnets. They're cheap enogh, and it'll save bother trying to cut the dapol magnets in half, which is a pain. However, I think Richard found that MTs are very sensitive to magnetic strength?
Cheers
Kirky

The MT knuckles are not quite a scaled down version of the Kadee ones, it's a little more complicated than that.  They use a split shank which is a nicer solution than the Dapol solid pivoting shank (and patented, which is why Dapol and various American N gauge manufacturers have gone with a solid shank and sprung knuckles), but the disadvantage is there is no way a MT coupler could be designed to fit an NEM coupler pocket.

The problem with magnets is that you can't actually see the magnetic field, so all you can do is keep experimenting until you find something that works.  Magnets too strong tend to pull the couplers down rather than sideways and they bind up: too weak and they don't work at all. Electromagnets would be good but I've put a lot of hours into those and not yet come up with a design that works reliably.

The knuckles are still better than Rapido couplings.  But that isn't saying much. If Minitrix had beaten Arnold to market in the 1960s we'd probably have OO-style tension lock couplers, the first Minitrix models had them. Lima initially went with a scaled down version of the standard HO coupler. Whether either of those would have been better than the Rapido design I can't say.

 

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