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Author Topic: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons  (Read 42179 times)

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Offline martyn

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #45 on: March 27, 2016, 01:43:04 PM »
"For steam models, the most obvious omission is the LNER tank loco. Until the eventual arrival of the Farish J72 (Not even in CAD yet!) there are precisely none currently! I would think the J50, based on the seeming success of the Hornby model, with the right publicity and choice of manufacturer would meet your minimum order quality and it would be a simple 0-6-0 tank loco as a first steamer to boot.."

How about a J67/69? Chassis might be a problem (but very similar to a J72), and distribution in LNER days was Stratford to Perth, Lowestoft to Wrexham; though they did tend to 'come home' in later years, and of course there were none on the ex NER area, where the native 0-6-0s and 0-6-2s reigned. It looks as if J50s tended to stay close to the ex GNR/ ECML area, though not exclusively. And Hornby's model does seem to have been successful.
Martyn

Offline Arrachogaidh

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #46 on: March 27, 2016, 03:10:55 PM »
Ordered KFA for Rail Head Treatment Train.

Nice one guys.

As for future items, how about earlier Pullman cars than those previously produced?
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Offline westie7

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #47 on: March 27, 2016, 03:33:35 PM »
Order in for a 3 pack on Y25's

Offline Ben A

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #48 on: March 27, 2016, 07:37:00 PM »
Hello all,

Apologies - here is the useage map I intended to upload previously.  It only shows traffic I have found photographic evidence for since 2010, and doesn't include binliners or RHTT.



The CAD of the first version with GPS bogies is well in hand, though it is missing the TOPS panel and couplers.  Here are a few more images.  The blue ribs under the wagon will be diecast metal for additional weight.









The buffers on this type are different to those on the later Tiphook ones, and both types of buffers are being tooled.

Mike - I don't honestly know which of the Y25s these have but Rapido are working to drawings provided when they were last refurbished, so they should be right.

Buzzard - thanks, I checked that book and the ones we are doing (TIPH prefix) are those listed with Freightliner and MOD, but are also in use with DBS and GBRf.

Roy - fair enough, but why would an LNER loco (presumably only used on mixed traffic between London and Edinburgh?) do any better than a mixed traffic loco used in East Anglia and Scotland? 

I take the point that there are no 29s preserved; my point was that the cab casting was the same between the 22 and 29 so Dapol only need to copy and paste it in CAD to get it right.  I have no idea how successful the 22 has been but Dapol have re-run it since initial release, so it can't have done too badly.  Apologies for mis-identifying Matthew's GWR coach but the point stands; maybe the Mermaid failed due to the DJM announcement.  Nonetheless, at the moment the empirical evidence we have is that transition era modellers don't "step up."

cheers

Ben A.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2016, 09:15:43 AM by Ben A »



Online njee20

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #49 on: March 27, 2016, 08:06:34 PM »
Can people please stop calling all these projects "kickstarters". Kickstarter is a company who provide a crowdfunding platform. Since the initial Pendo efforts none of the RevolutioN models have had a presence on Kickstarter, and none of them have been funded via Kickstarter!

It's slightly anarchic, but I'm amused by all the steam/transition era modellers getting their knickers in a twist because it's not something for them. Makes a change compared to all the announcements from mainstream manufacturers to be focusing on modern stuff!  >:D
« Last Edit: March 27, 2016, 08:39:57 PM by njee20 »

ScottyStitch

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #50 on: March 27, 2016, 09:24:50 PM »
I'm not sure it's strictly a case of panties in a spiral, more a sense of frustration that of the five projects announced so far, four have been modern image and fifty percent of those four have been wagons, with a lower unit retail cost than a locomotive. One of the four is an iconic full rake train that appeals to both modellers and collectors alike, much as an APT or prototype HST would and a Blue Pullman (In Nanking Blue) already has.

Many backers have a bought a Pendolino purely on the basis of trying to support this new (to the model railway world) funding route, myself included.

Would the empirical evidence indicate differently if transition modellers had a wagon or a coach to support?

Offline PaulCheffus

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #51 on: March 27, 2016, 09:31:16 PM »
I'm not sure it's strictly a case of panties in a spiral, more a sense of frustration that of the five projects announced so far, four have been modern image and fifty percent of those four have been wagons, with a lower unit retail cost than a locomotive. One of the four is an iconic full rake train that appeals to both modellers and collectors alike, much as an APT or prototype HST would and a Blue Pullman (In Nanking Blue) already has.

Many backers have a bought a Pendolino purely on the basis of trying to support this new (to the model railway world) funding route, myself included.

Would the empirical evidence indicate differently if transition modellers had a wagon or a coach to support?

Hi

It's been mentioned before but would a decent crane fit the bill as they cover a vast timescale.

Cheers

Paul
Procrastination - The Thief of Time.

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #52 on: March 27, 2016, 09:36:20 PM »
much as an APT or prototype HST would

We'll see on the latter as Dapol are doing it...!

Quote
Would the empirical evidence indicate differently if transition modellers had a wagon or a coach to support?

Haven't there been failed wagons too?

Mike and Ben have Invested many hundreds of hours of their own time, don't blame them for not taking a punt on something that's outside their area of expertise on the back of people saying "this would definitely sell", when past experience suggests otherwise...

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #53 on: March 27, 2016, 09:50:51 PM »
There haven't been any failed wagons from RevolutioN.

N-tastic's Mermaid crowdfunding campaign was cancelled by N-tastic on announcement from DJM.

The comment was that transition modellers weren't stepping up to the crowdfunding model. I was only suggesting that if they had been asked to support a 15-25 wagon rather than a circa 110 locomotive, as modern image modellers were on announcement of the TEAs, the uptake might have been better. Maybe not.

There was nothing said about blaming Mike and Ben for anything, merely a reasoning to consider that the evidence may be biased.

RevolutioN have proposed one transition era model, the class 21/29. No-one said it would definitely sell. In fact, I'm not sure anyone said it would sell at all. Ben and Mike asked for a proposal to be put forward, on this forum, along with a few other suggestions for other models. A poll was attached. Whilst I believe my pitch was compelling enough, it was Ben and Mike who decided to open the class 21/29 to pledges.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2016, 10:06:07 PM by ScottyStitch »

Offline Roy L S

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #54 on: March 27, 2016, 09:57:22 PM »

Hello all,

Roy - fair enough, but why would an LNER loco (presumably only used on mixed traffic between London and Edinburgh?) do any better than a mixed traffic loco used in East Anglia and Scotland? 

I take the point that there are no 29s preserved; my point was that the cab casting was the same between the 22 and 29 so Dapol only need to copy and paste it in CAD to get it right.  I have no idea how successful the 22 has been but Dapol have re-run it since initial release, so it can't have done too badly.  Apologies for mis-identifying Matthew's GWR coach but the point stands; maybe the Mermaid failed due to the DJM announcement.  Nonetheless, at the moment the empirical evidence we have is that transition era modellers don't "step up."

cheers

Ben A.


Hi Ben

For avoidance of any doubt I am pleased for those that will benefit that you are working on another modern wagon. There are no "sour grapes" on my part. I do not agree with your conclusion as regards transition models but respect entirely that it is for you and Mike to decide what you invest your time and effort into.

If you are referring to the J50 v the 21/29 in your question (and apologies if you are not), then I think I would start with their length of service and wider geographical spread (albeit as others have said somewhat less than the full LNER network). Also a steam loco is arguably a different proposition to relatively unsuccessful (if quirky) Modernisation Plan Diesel and will appeal to more modellers who model over a longer timeframe (including LNER, BR Early, and BR Late Crests).

Principally a freight loco and some not even having vacuum brakes if memory serves. Most would have been used on local freight of various kinds, including inter-regional freights at the London end. I believe they were occasionally used on local passenger turns.

The link here provides a fuller and more useful insight: -

http://www.lner.info/locos/J/j50j51.php

Two whitemetal kits were made many years ago - ABS Beaver and Graham Hughes both unavailable now - plus N Brass kit also made as very limited run RTR also moons back too.

The only RTR LNER Tank loco ever produced was the Farish J69 in 1970-73! So one might also consider the V1/V3 Tank or the N2 0-6-2 Tank as possibilities.

Turning to tender locos, the K1 would be unlikely by either Farish or Dapol as Hornby collared the 00 market with their fabulous model (and we are told have lost interest in anything further in N). I would think that with a Ben/Mike/Rapido approach to marketing that would be very likely to meet minimum order too.

I haven't even touched on other companies but the point is there are many, many steam locos as yet untouched which look realistic but in truth very few remaining diesels one could say the same of.

Also, don't forget Industrials - some small to medium sized shunters by say, Hunslet, Ruston, Sentinel etc and what about the chain driven Sentinel Y1/Y3 vertical boilered steam loco? Now something like that, never done RTR in British N DCC ready (with sound?!?!)would probably meet the "quirkiness" factor in spades..

Turning to rolling stock, we Transition modellers are really well supplied, the manufacturers have done us proud there, but were I to suggest a couple, they would be the Carflat or possibly even better the famous ICI hoppers that Oxford are doing in 00 that had such an incredibly long life (from the 1940s through to the early 90s).

Anyway, I've probably said more than enough for now. I hope the RevolutioN/Rapido partnership continues to be successful, whatever the products are.

Regards

Roy



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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #55 on: March 27, 2016, 10:18:34 PM »
Hi all,

With this debate about Transition and Steam Era models creeping in and taking over I started a new thread so we can dicuss it instead of it taking over this thread

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=32519.0

Offline red_death

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #56 on: March 27, 2016, 11:22:02 PM »
Thanks for the update Ben.

Is the Y25 bogie the low pivot height VNH1 variant, which I believe is shaped slightly differently at the outer ends from the standard cast Y25C? The VNH1 was also used on the Procar 80 single wagon double deck car transporters to gain a bit of extra height for the load.

Yes I'm pretty sure the bogie is the VNH1.

Cheers Mike



Offline midsummerend

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #57 on: March 28, 2016, 01:18:12 AM »
Definitely think the ICI wagon would be one to look at.  It would appeal to so many.  I agree that transition modellers are fairly well stocked in N for private owner wagons etc, however, it would be nice to see a Ferry Van and also a cartic as well.  Maybe even a rectangle tank wagon as these aren't produced in N scale.  I could even suggest some nice Pullman Coaches as the only ones we have at present are the MK1 pullmans.  Not sure how they'd fair though with regards to licensing with the crests etc?

Offline Ben A

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #58 on: March 28, 2016, 09:36:32 AM »

Anyway, I've probably said more than enough for now. I hope the RevolutioN/Rapido partnership continues to be successful, whatever the products are.

Regards

Roy

Hi Roy,

Thanks for that.  I have sort of picked up this discussion on the other thread that's focused on possible transition era models.

Just one point - Revolution came about in part because Mike and I accepted that the NGS would always need to focus on the biggest market (the transition era) and we realised that modern models would never come via that route.  The NGS is still producing niche models, with the Thompson BGs imminent and another item due to be announced at the AGM this summer.

And please keep your comments coming - we are always happy to chat about this stuff!

cheers

Ben A.



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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #59 on: March 28, 2016, 10:48:20 AM »
Mike and I accepted that the NGS would always need to focus on the biggest market (the transition era) and we realised that modern models would never come via that route.

Upon which note can somebody please tell Dapol to get a St Ivel liveried 6-wheel milk tanker done! Colourful, common, ubiquitous in the West Country behind all those 'Westerns' and 'Warships'. Seems an obvious NGS commission, but what do I know.  :confused1:

Cheers, NeMo
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