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Author Topic: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons  (Read 32827 times)

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Offline njee20

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2016, 08:48:28 PM »
Hi Guys,

Have you considered getting some Bin liner containers done? RTR or kits would work for me.

Don't C-Rail do them?

Offline porkie

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #31 on: March 26, 2016, 09:28:36 PM »
Hi Guys,

Have you considered getting some Bin liner containers done? RTR or kits would work for me.

Arran Aird already does the MOD containers, perhaps he would be interested?

Regards,

John P


Hi John,  Binliner containers are available  here  http://www.wildboarmodels.co.uk/specialist-containers.php

I'm also looking at doing a waste train too
:Class89:

My Layout build thread.... Milton grove TMD 1985 - 2000
www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=57.0

Offline Bob Tidbury

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #32 on: March 26, 2016, 09:34:58 PM »
Ian Stoat Models also done bin liners to fit on the old style container wagons so I might order the correct wagons and re use the others to make a longer container train . Some else to add to my wish list or in my case dream on list now we are both retired .
Bob

Offline porkie

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #33 on: March 26, 2016, 09:35:13 PM »
Wow This is great news  :laugh3:

As I model from the late 80's to 2000 this will fit perfectly in my time frame.

Deffo will be placing an order for 10 wagons, Just got to find info on what would be best to use as a bin liner rake aswell as normal container flows.

cheers

Phil
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www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=57.0

Offline mickster04

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #34 on: March 26, 2016, 10:20:47 PM »
So as I model 80s and 90s am I right in thinking none of the liveries really suit my era? even if the wagon did?

Offline jpendle

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #35 on: March 26, 2016, 10:39:53 PM »
According to the website there are 6 liveries including, as delivered from the factory, in the 80's.

Also with regards to the bin liner containers even the Wild Board ones are quite pricey compared to a plastic kit or rtr.

I did do a google search but could only find Vonzacks containers.

Regards,

John P
« Last Edit: March 26, 2016, 10:41:15 PM by jpendle »
Check out my layout thread.

Contemporary NW (Wigan Wallgate and North Western)

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=39501.msg476247#msg476247

Offline woodbury22uk

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #36 on: March 26, 2016, 10:48:26 PM »
So as I model 80s and 90s am I right in thinking none of the liveries really suit my era? even if the wagon did?

The two versions coded PFA certainly fit your period plus at least the KFA branded Tiphook Rail. Tiphook Rail was sold in 1996 but the branding did not disappear immediately.
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Offline acko22

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #37 on: March 26, 2016, 11:08:49 PM »
Well I am in for some well aslong as the pennies are there.
Hmm a rake for binliners and a rake for MOD train.

One thing that got me was the fact they are not modelled but in daily use for well almost 30 years.

Online Ben A

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #38 on: March 27, 2016, 10:03:14 AM »
Hello all,

In answer to some of the questions where I can.... Please bear in mind I am still researching some of the older flows for these wagons; the map we have published is for post 2010 operations.

Mickster:  The wagons were built in two batches.  The first 40 came in 1987 and were used initially to take contaminated spoil from Chatham docks to Stewartby refuse site in Bedforshre.   They were coded PFA and had pale blue GPS bogies. 

These were used on other traffics, then some appeared to have the bogies repainted yellow, and some were fitted with Tiphook placards.  I am not sure exactly when this took place, but I believe it was around 1990-2 and I think is when they were recorded to KFA.

Some of these have been more recently repainted black and used by Network Rail; I am not sure if the remainder are in use or stored.

The other type came in from 1988 on the Y25 bogies; they too were blue and coded PFA.  These had Tiphook Rail on the right hand end of the sole bar and from the start have been used in a wide variety of traffic from intermodal to MOD, gypsum and bin liners.  These were also recoded KFA in the 1990s and  bogies have been repainted black on the majority, though under the crud I have been told some are still blue though I can't say for sure.

On some the Tiphook Rail has been removed and small Freightliner labels applied.  This represents the final type we are doing.

All the above livery variants are being offered; covering the full lives of both types so far.  There is one variant we are not offering which is that some have been left dirty but had just the sides repainted blue.  I am not sure why only half a job was done!

Mike and I did talk about containers but on the smallish quantities we will be producing the tooling would add significantly to the cost of each wagon.  Having said that, both gypsum and bin liner containers would be very useful and we retain an open mind as to whether we should offer these as separate items in time; however there are some good options available from the 3D print designers.

Cheers

Ben A.



Offline woodbury22uk

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #39 on: March 27, 2016, 10:24:39 AM »
Thanks for the update Ben.

Is the Y25 bogie the low pivot height VNH1 variant, which I believe is shaped slightly differently at the outer ends from the standard cast Y25C? The VNH1 was also used on the Procar 80 single wagon double deck car transporters to gain a bit of extra height for the load.

Mike

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Offline woodbury22uk

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #40 on: March 27, 2016, 10:36:42 AM »
Did these run into West Cornwall in the late 80's early 90's, or could I use rule 1 for a delivery of MOD containers for Culdrose? I was thinking of getting 1 of the earliest livery for a mixed freight.


Found a picture on 13 April 2013 of one going to Plymouth, but you might not want to model the load! Scroll down on this page:-

http://www.tauntontrains.co.uk/NEWS-2013-APR.htm

I think you could justify one for Cornwall in the early years. What about a couple of flat containers with large castings on board.
Mike

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Offline porkie

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #41 on: March 27, 2016, 11:12:51 AM »
Hello all,

In answer to some of the questions where I can.... Please bear in mind I am still researching some of the older flows for these wagons; the map we have published is for post 2010 operations.

Mickster:  The wagons were built in two batches.  The first 40 came in 1987 and were used initially to take contaminated spoil from Chatham docks to Stewartby refuse site in Bedforshre.   They were coded PFA and had pale blue GPS bogies. 

These were used on other traffics, then some appeared to have the bogies repainted yellow, and some were fitted with Tiphook placards.  I am not sure exactly when this took place, but I believe it was around 1990-2 and I think is when they were recorded to KFA.

Some of these have been more recently repainted black and used by Network Rail; I am not sure if the remainder are in use or stored.

The other type came in from 1988 on the Y25 bogies; they too were blue and coded PFA.  These had Tiphook Rail on the right hand end of the sole bar and from the start have been used in a wide variety of traffic from intermodal to MOD, gypsum and bin liners.  These were also recoded KFA in the 1990s and  bogies have been repainted black on the majority, though under the crud I have been told some are still blue though I can't say for sure.

On some the Tiphook Rail has been removed and small Freightliner labels applied.  This represents the final type we are doing.

All the above livery variants are being offered; covering the full lives of both types so far.  There is one variant we are not offering which is that some have been left dirty but had just the sides repainted blue.  I am not sure why only half a job was done!

Mike and I did talk about containers but on the smallish quantities we will be producing the tooling would add significantly to the cost of each wagon.  Having said that, both gypsum and bin liner containers would be very useful and we retain an open mind as to whether we should offer these as separate items in time; however there are some good options available from the 3D print designers.

Cheers

Ben A.

Thanks for the information Ben.

Deffo makes it easier to decide on which one's would suit my era's best

Phil
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My Layout build thread.... Milton grove TMD 1985 - 2000
www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=57.0

Offline Buzzard

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #42 on: March 27, 2016, 12:03:02 PM »
For the record here's some prototype information from the book titled Wagon Recognition Volume 1 by Martin Buck and Mark Rawlinson.

Details following are operator, TOPS prefix and range(s) of running numbers

Roxby binliner - GMC - 92500 to 92542 and 92580 to 92588
Freightliner/MOD - RLS - 92547 to 92562 and 92611 to  92651
Avon binliner - AVON - 92563 to 92579
Freightliner/MOD - TIPH - 93292 to 93489
Edinburgh binliner - EDC - 95240 to 95431

HTH

Offline PWayman

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #43 on: March 27, 2016, 12:43:55 PM »
Revolution in my view are correcting possibly the most neglected part of the model railway scene appertaining over so many years. That is, the overhead electric parts of the modelling scene.
  I have been modelling WCML for years and have had to rely on class 87's with DVTS for so long along with class 90's and Dapol's excellent class 86's as more modern trains have simply not been available. Along come Ben and Mike with the Pendolino. I was overjoyed. I have 2, 9 car units on order (my loops will not hold 11 cars) and now they offer lighting units for the 390  and now class 321's to come.
  I understand why proprietry manufacturers have been reluctant to produce the 390 with the obvious high cost of each train but a leap of faith by Ben and Mike showed there was a market and one crying out for the product.
  Well done Ben and Mike, Keep up the good work filling the gaps up ! 

  With the GF class 350 unit and the awaited class 319 unit the modern electric scene has never had it so good.

Offline Roy L S

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #44 on: March 27, 2016, 01:23:28 PM »
Hello all,


The transition era question is a tricky one.  Generating the publicity material, research, social media presence, exhibition handouts and of course actually striking a deal with a manufacturer is not trivial and takes us many hours of work.

Received wisdom is that it's the most popular period and yet we tried and failed with the Class 21/9 which is slap bang in the middle.  Our research showed these locos operated from London to most of East Anglia, across Scotland and down as far as Birmingahm on occasion. 

Indeed, the locos were arguably more widespread than the Pendolino in operation, and in some ways required less of a leap of faith since we had already shown significant evidence of progress when we launched.

The Pendolino is not just selling to those modelling the WCML. Many people are buying to support the crowd-funding concept, because they feel this, as the first, is something special, or because they like iconic trains.

I accept that the 21/9 doesn't exactly fit that bill, but it was quirky, interesting, cute in a fugly kind of way and going with Dapol we felt would reassure people that the face would be right, since they've got the same face right on the 22.

And modern modellers have also stepped up for the TEA tankers, and the 320/321s, even though they are, in some ways, georgraphically or operationally limited.

And yet... Not nearly enough people stepped up for the 21/9.  Wrong location, wrong loco, wrong livery, wrong era.   Lots and lots of perfectly reasonable excuses on an individual basis, but collectively they send the message that transition era modellers are either unwilling to compromise, or take a punt on something, or simply uninterested in engaging in this production model.

And not just our model.  DJM/Karhedron Autocoach, N-tastic mermaids... All failed.

All that's perfectly fine, and I have no problem with it, but that is the basic reason why we have gone back to what we are confident will generate enough interest.

Bearing in mind that Mike and I have no gut feeling about this era - we don't model it or know it - then we just have to go with empirical experience.

Cheers

Ben A.

Hi Ben

I came to this rather late in the day yesterday. If I am honest, the announcement of another model more aligned to modern times is no surprise at all. I accept that this is yours and Mike's area of knowledge and given that you two are the ones that do much of the hard work to bring it to fruition that is entirely understandable.

What I do not agree with is your conclusion that from the examples you give there may be no market for a steam/diesel transition (or possibly earlier) "kickstarter" in N. Matt's (Actually a GW Streamline Railcar rather than an auto coach) was the very first and in many ways the one from which lessons could be learned.

Richard's RTR Mermaid Kickstarter was "pulled" when DJM Dave announced his own model (first test shots since seen). Arguably the funding level for just a wagon was very optimistic given the units that would have needed to be subscribed to  reach it. I am sure Richard felt it was achievable and I merely observe rather than criticise in saying this.

Then your own 21/29. To compare th1s loco to a Pendo in terms of potential (in my view) a little off the mark. More accurate against a Pendo would maybe have been a Deltic from the Transition era.

There are, I think a number of reasons why the 21/29 did not get close to it's goal (I don't think you ever published how far short or by way of comparison how much closer the 320/321 was?).

First is the relative obscurity of the loco. Arguably the very reason no RTR manufacturer has done it - possibly just a little too "niche"? I wanted two and was disappointed it wouldn't proceed but maybe not enough felt the same..

Second - none preserved. I can go to Chinnor and see a Class 17, but the 21/29 fell into obscurity.

Thirdly, I hate to say it but did the choice of manufacture make some think twice? It didn't me but may have others as against Rapido who appear altogether more visible and dynamic in their approach. Dave (DJM) I am confident based on the 00 models we have seen would have done a good job too, and he also seems much closer to the customers.

Fourth. We don't actually know how well the 22 did sell. Maybe it didn't do as well as we assume?

For sure there is a demand for subscriber based Transition models. Just look at the success of the NGS RTR projects to see that. Indeed it may just be possible that this is where your potential Transition "Kickstarters" are currently lurking?!

I am delighted for our scale as a whole that your initial forays into this route for funding models have been so successful. It can only help with the profile of modelling of British N at a time when by comparison manufacturers are slowing down/consolidating. All I would suggest is that you do not close your minds to the possibility of future transition models. I feel there are plenty that would meet your minimum subscriber level.

I know it is all very well to say all of this without making any suggestions. So my final comment in this long and rambling post is: -

For steam models, the most obvious omission is the LNER tank loco. Until the eventual arrival of the Farish J72 (Not even in CAD yet!) there are precisely none currently! I would think the J50, based on the seeming success of the Hornby model, with the right publicity and choice of manufacturer would meet your minimum order quality and it would be a simple 0-6-0 tank loco as a first steamer to boot..

Best wishes

Roy


 

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