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Author Topic: Class 21 & 29 proposed by Revolution Trains  (Read 20481 times)

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Offline Portpatrick

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Re: Class 21 & 29 proposed by Revolution Trains
« Reply #60 on: November 07, 2015, 09:48:23 PM »
I would most certainly prefer the 21 if there were only one initially.  And said as much in my expression of interest.  I would actually go for one of each.  But would buy one 29 if that was the only option, and it was green with small panel.  Sadly though I would be out if it only came in blue.  Wrong era!

Offline Roy L S

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Re: Class 21 & 29 proposed by Revolution Trains
« Reply #61 on: November 07, 2015, 11:26:54 PM »

Hello all,

This is still relatively uncharted territory for all of us, and to some extent Mike and I are making it up as we go along.

The Pendolino started with Kickstarter, which failed, but was rescued because Rapido agreed to "plan B" and in doing so proved the possibilities of the crowd-funded production model.

Mike and I felt that the 10% kickstarter commission coupled with their time limits, meant our own website might be a more effective platform, so we created one.

Our first "new" model was the TEA which is now close to production, and of course the Pendolino is making great progress too.  Being a far more complex model, it has not surprisingly taken longer.

The 21/9 was a direct response to the well reasoned discussion on this forum, coupled with the happy coincidence of Dapol having already drawn up the CADs in 4mm, but feeling N was too much of an investment risk.

Roy:  I take your point about Dapol, but their Class 22 is very similar (albeit significantly shorter!) than the 21/9 and is the obvious starting point.  I have a 22 and its mechanism is smooth and reliable, and in my view as reliable and well made as anything by any other manufacturer.  Put simply, I would not have put this forward as a plan if I was not confident.

NewportNobby: We aren't at the point of having to ask people to select one or the other, but if we did then yes, I anticipate that some people would wish to withdraw and that's fair enough, and at the moment the 29 is in the lead.

But I would urge those who want a 21 to at least think about supporting the 29 for this reason: getting a 29 produced would make a 21 far more likely in the near future since, in effect, it's just a new bodyshell.  The glazing and mechanism is largely the same.

On that basis could you justify having a green 29 as a "placeholder" on your layout pending the more accurate model? 

At very least, an RTR 29 would also be easier to convert to a 21 than trying to build an all-etched model, and it may be that some enterprising kit manufacturer decides to produce "drop on" resin 21 bodyshells that use the 29 glazing, chassis etc.

Of course, if you don't wish to have a 29 under any circumstances then I totally respect your decision and so be it!

cheers

Ben A.

Hi Ben

I do appreciate that everything you do is without precedent and as such there will be both surprises and disappointments. For me personally I would be disappointed if this project does not proceed but realistically I can see that there is a lot of ground to cover and one must be prepared to accept that not all proposals will get past the threshold in the same way as is true for kickstarter projects.

I think your platform for these proposals is both innovative and refreshing and I hope that neither of you is disillusioned if projects do not always hit the necessary "critical mass" needed. That you have already got two successful projects under way speaks volumes for the validity of the model and your own knowledge and commitment (all done as an extra to your day jobs).

There are plenty of other potential projects, some already suggested and others not and I have no doubt that at least some will find the support needed to be produced.

I will keep faith with this project but cannot commit to more than two locos. I hope that regardless of success or otherwise I will have the opportunity to support future ventures.

Regards

Roy

Offline Ben A

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Re: Class 21 & 29 proposed by Revolution Trains
« Reply #62 on: November 07, 2015, 11:31:39 PM »
I would most certainly prefer the 21 if there were only one initially.  And said as much in my expression of interest.  I would actually go for one of each.  But would buy one 29 if that was the only option, and it was green with small panel.  Sadly though I would be out if it only came in blue.  Wrong era!

Hi there,

If the 29 alone goes ahead then it would certainly be in at least three liveries - two tone green with small panel, two tone green with full yellow end and blue.  And there would also, probably, be variations within these around positioning of the numbers/BR logos etc, but we won't look at exact livery options unless we go to production.

cheers

Ben A.



Online railsquid

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Re: Class 21 & 29 proposed by Revolution Trains
« Reply #63 on: November 08, 2015, 02:30:10 AM »
I'd like to support one of these projects on general principle, and so far this has been the closest which fits my tastes. Which are fortunately not too particular in terms of era or location, but it has to be transition/modernisation ~ sectorisation (and something I at least recognise), so blue would be most excellent, green OK at a pinch.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2015, 10:47:36 PM by railsquid »
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Offline Arrachogaidh

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Re: Class 21 & 29 proposed by Revolution Trains
« Reply #64 on: November 08, 2015, 01:20:50 PM »


Hi there,

If the 29 alone goes ahead then it would certainly be in at least three liveries - two tone green with small panel, two tone green with full yellow end and blue.  And there would also, probably, be variations within these around positioning of the numbers/BR logos etc, but we won't look at exact livery options unless we go to production.

cheers

Ben A.

That is great news Ben. When Red said it'd be blue I was disheartened. For me two-tone green is a must.

Cheers
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Offline red_death

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Re: Class 21 & 29 proposed by Revolution Trains
« Reply #65 on: November 08, 2015, 02:06:30 PM »
Folks

I didn't say we would only be producing a blue 29 - I said it had been the most popular choice to date (very different things!).

At the moment we need an awful lot more interest to make the project viable and as Ben says we would produce at least the livery variants mentioned.

Thanks for the kind comments.  We have both accepted that the very nature of going for niche projects is always going to mean that inevitably we will come up against a project that just isn't viable - we just hope it isn't this!

Cheers, Mike



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Re: Class 21 & 29 proposed by Revolution Trains
« Reply #66 on: November 09, 2015, 12:33:58 PM »
Folks

I didn't say we would only be producing a blue 29 - I said it had been the most popular choice to date (very different things!).

At the moment we need an awful lot more interest to make the project viable and as Ben says we would produce at least the livery variants mentioned.

Thanks for the kind comments.  We have both accepted that the very nature of going for niche projects is always going to mean that inevitably we will come up against a project that just isn't viable - we just hope it isn't this!

Cheers, Mike

On a personal level the lack of interest is very disappointing, especially when I recall the 21/29 scoring highly in last years RM wish list poll. Unfortunately, if this project doesn't make its target, Dapol are unlikely to
Produce the model in N as well. Pretty much the last piece of the Scottish region transition era.....but I guess, if there's no demand, there's no demand.

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Re: Class 21 & 29 proposed by Revolution Trains
« Reply #67 on: November 09, 2015, 12:35:52 PM »
I wonder if CJM would make a couple on a commission basis?

Offline Roy L S

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Re: Class 21 & 29 proposed by Revolution Trains
« Reply #68 on: November 09, 2015, 05:12:04 PM »
I wonder if CJM would make a couple on a commission basis?

I'm not sure that's how CJM work, I think their thing is low volume high quality models made for general release at prices in the 500 bracket.

Surely if the Dapol 22 was considered viable this should be too? Warley hasn't happened yet, so hopefully potential there and there are still almost three months to go to the deadline so a bit premature to throw in the towel hopefully.

Just a need to reach the those modellers who could potentially make up the balance needed. I'm sure they are out there.

Regards

Roy

Offline red_death

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Re: Class 21 & 29 proposed by Revolution Trains
« Reply #69 on: November 09, 2015, 05:31:34 PM »
Roy is correct - we shouldn't abandon all hope (Ben and I certainly aren't), but we wanted people to be aware of the scale of the challenge to make this happen.

Part of the reason that we were prepared to take this on was precisely because Dapol said they had no intention of doing it in N (and we agree that if the 22 could be viable then I would have thought the 21/29 was even more viable - of course we don't know how well the 22 has sold!).

Cheers, Mike



Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Class 21 & 29 proposed by Revolution Trains
« Reply #70 on: November 09, 2015, 09:28:40 PM »
Without starting a range war or providing ammo for some folks to fire, maybe it just shows the popularity of diesel hydraulic v diesel electric or perhaps just the Western Region flavour of the class 22 :hmmm:
However, Kernow and others have been offering Dapol diesel hydraulics at 'bargain' prices so maybe they haven't sold as well as expected :-\

Offline scruff

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Re: Class 21 & 29 proposed by Revolution Trains
« Reply #71 on: November 09, 2015, 10:02:53 PM »
I can't help but think the deadline of 31st January is a bit early, after all, Modelrail Scotland is in February and both the 21/29 and 320/321 have a Scottish slant to them.. If you can see where my train of thought is going??

Cheers
Mark

Offline red_death

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Re: Class 21 & 29 proposed by Revolution Trains
« Reply #72 on: November 09, 2015, 10:23:39 PM »
Mark

The problem is that we can always find a reason to delay a deadline eg Ally Pally in March/April for the 321 or 21 but we have to be realistic about these things.  What we don't want to happen is to leave projects open for lengthy periods as it means no development happens, projects take ever longer time periods and the longer we leave them open the more risky it becomes that people's interests will have changed all the while losing momentum and focus.

The projects will have been open for 4.5 months once we close the expressions of interest which is reasonable compared to the 2 months of the Pendolino kickstarter. Whilst we felt that was too short there is clearly a happy medium.

Cheers, Mike



Offline acko22

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Re: Class 21 & 29 proposed by Revolution Trains
« Reply #73 on: November 09, 2015, 10:40:09 PM »
Mike,

You beat me to it!!! Personally the 21/29 isn't for me as its the wrong era / area for me although for my layout I am using my own version of rule 1 (if one still exists then I can run it, as some people would have said you would never see a western on a freight after BR withdrew them and GBRF used one!)

But I think out of all of it should the 21/29 come to fruition or not (I hope its the first) then this will prove a validation for Mike, Ben and well in reality all of us too!
Like Mike and Ben have eluded to this allows them to concentrate on the a small set list and ensuring that it isn't just a pipe dream and make it a reality just like they have done with the Pendolino.

Plus should the 21/29 not make the grade then is there anything stopping Mike and Ben from having another crack with any model later on if there proves to be an upsurge in interest at a later date.

I think Warley will be an interesting development, with the first samples of the Pendolino injection moulded bodies been there, I personally think this will spark a hell of a lot of interest and encourage those who didn't feel comfortable going with a new comer to modelling (I know Mike and Ben are no new comers to modelling, more revolution as a company).

So I think while the debate when to cut things off is always going to be difficult (I know this debate was had for the Pendolino project this time last year), I think Warley will be the tipping point for this project.

Personally like I say not for me but I actually really do want it to succeed.

Offline scruff

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Re: Class 21 & 29 proposed by Revolution Trains
« Reply #74 on: November 09, 2015, 11:02:13 PM »
Thanks Mike, I totally see where you are coming from...

Besides.. that means the sooner I get my mitts on my EMU's!  :thumbsup:

Cheers
mark

 

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