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Author Topic: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series  (Read 46279 times)

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Offline Hiawatha

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Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #360 on: January 22, 2018, 10:17:21 AM »
It's a good job that Faller didn't model true, as the original Landwasser Viaduct has a curve radius of just 100 metres!

I strongly suspect that Faller chose 193mm as the nearest they could get to making the viaduct at least look approximately right

100m radius (100,000 mm) / 160 = 625 mm radius in N (or 666.67 mm in 1:150)!
A little bit more than 193 mm should have been possible, I think. :-\

Online njee20

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Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #361 on: January 22, 2018, 10:30:18 AM »
Agreed!

@Mike Beard ,itís personal, but I find AnyRail head and shoulders above any other layout design programme, unless you want to do handbuilt track when Templot is the answer.

Online retica

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Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #362 on: January 22, 2018, 10:35:28 AM »
Who told Faller it would be a good idea to make the Landwasserviadukt a 193mm radius circle? Has anybody got a set of plans......here we go again. Peco #1 radius at the least.


Mike, if you don't like the Faller product and you have 'some' spare cash, maybe steinbogenviadukte.de is the one for you ? Direct link to the Landwasserviadukt. Yes, he offers them in N/Nm as well.

steve

 

Online retica

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Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #363 on: January 22, 2018, 10:40:41 AM »
Has anybody got a set of plans......

There are some plans in this PDF. Or you can contact RhB, they will happily sell you a copy of the original plans with all the needed measurements.

steve

Online daffy

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Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #364 on: January 22, 2018, 11:14:13 AM »
It's a good job that Faller didn't model true, as the original Landwasser Viaduct has a curve radius of just 100 metres!

I strongly suspect that Faller chose 193mm as the nearest they could get to making the viaduct at least look approximately right


100m radius (100,000 mm) / 160 = 625 mm radius in N (or 666.67 mm in 1:150)!
A little bit more than 193 mm should have been possible, I think. :-\


Yes, I agree. Seeing a real train on the viaduct compared to a Kato rake on the Faller model the latter seems a bit, shall we say, small.

Oddly other curved viaducts from Faller and Kibri have very similar radiii:
Faller 222586 - av 193mm
Kibri 37664 Semmering viaduct - 192 - 195mm
Kibri 37665 Albula viaduct - 220 - 228mm

The latter seems to be the largest radii available for these basic kits.

But then a large radius Landwasser model would take up a lot of layout room, and there would be a cost of production/sales price problem for manufacturers to contend with. I feel that many modellers want 'look' above reality due to size constraints, and would baulk at a high price item, no matter how accurate it was.
For those who want something closer to reality, there is always, as @retica says, the DIY route. To see just how big a 1/160 Landwasser model would look, take a look at this Italian site where the modeller built one using a novel approach to getting the details right:

http://stefano.dalli.it/model/landwasser/


« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 11:15:52 AM by daffy »
Mike

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Online njee20

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Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #365 on: January 22, 2018, 11:24:10 AM »
That looks good!

It wouldn't need to be full sized, as you say, I think few would have that amount of space, but even a 300mm radius isn't absurd. Like I say, it's not a 'train set' piece of scenery after all - to integrate it within a layout needs a fair bit of work, so you'd expect it to be of interest to people with at least modest sized layouts, rather than the very smallest requiring the tightest curves.

Interesting they're doing a range of them though.

Offline Mike Beard

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Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #366 on: January 22, 2018, 11:56:11 AM »
The Kibri Albula viaduct might be the way to go. A Peco #1 radius curve would fit on it so planning is easy. It's 90 degrees so it's easy to plan around and Kibri make leg extensions but Pola used to do a useful box of stonework mouldings and it's amazing how it blends in with anybody elses stonework. Probably the way to go.

Thank you Daffy, you might be onto something there. I suppose you could combine the Faller and Kibri kits? Or cut a new trackbed and work off that. Or build an embankment.

Happy Daze,

Mike Beard.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 11:57:12 AM by Mike Beard »

Offline Mike Beard

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Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #367 on: January 22, 2018, 02:40:24 PM »
I've found a table giving Kato RhB vehicle lengths. Basically a Ge4/4III is listed as 103mm, an Allegra unit is listed as 3x110 giving 330mm. The Glacier Express coaches are 118mm while the Bernina Line coaches are 110mm. From this a Bernina Line train comes out at around 1 metre long while a Glacier Express is 811mm. So mixing my dimensions perhaps passing loops should be about a yard long, just as Peco intended. The Bernina Line trains would have priority or the loops will be arranged so they were different lengths on the 3 station lines.

Using my schoolboy maths a Peco #1 radius curve is 228mm so a circle is 1435mm  A 5% grade would represent a climb of about 71mm. I have yet to measure the height of a Ge4/4III on Peco Set Track. I don't know if that will work. The worse case is a loco pulling 6 Glacier cars as the power unit of the Allegra can be put at the rear of the unit and the train is marginally shorter. It needs some 3mm ply, a jigsaw and some Peco Track. That's this week gone then!

Anybody got a piece of Set Track and a micrometer/digital vernier just to get me started?

Cheers,

Mike beard.

Online njee20

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Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #368 on: January 22, 2018, 03:05:11 PM »
5% is very steep, I wouldn't be surprised if they managed it, but I'd try for less if you could. I'd also steer you away from set track if at all possible. It probably is the easiest on <250mm radius curves, but it'll look far better with much smoother curves if you use flex track and Streamline points.

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Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #369 on: January 22, 2018, 03:47:19 PM »
I agree with njee. Although Kato say their Allegra will climb a 5% gradient I would be very very wary of taking that at face value, particularly if you add the Bernina coaches. Also true of the GE.
Most agree that 3% is a limit, and spirals/helices tend to be at 2%. Of course you will find as many views on this subject as there are N Gauge layout owners, and it all comes down to what you want to achieve.

There is only one real choice - test, test, test!

And in that testing you must decide what it is you want to run on the gradient, not just now, but in the future.

I would say that to build to 5% from the outset without thorough testing of all stock at maximum envisaged train lengths would be to court disappointment. It might work. But it might not. You need to know it will work. And only you know the variables you will be having to cater for: curves, points, train lengths, individual locomotive power/capability, and of course, ambient wind direction. ;)
Mike

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Offline Mike Beard

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Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #370 on: January 22, 2018, 04:55:53 PM »
I think the wind is blowing from the East in this instance. :laugh:

You have to start with something. I'm opting for Peco#1 Set Track to start the experiments with. If it does not work I can go upwards. The spirals cannot get too big or I'll need to put them on a seperate board and for a portable layout that would be a bit of a disaster. And Peco Set Track is very negotiable in the slightly used market.

In the end it's all a matter of balance. If an Allegra and its coaches are 1000mm long you need to allow for that in the design. Already the station and its approach spans two boards if they are 1220mm long. If that is not available and the passing loop length has to be shorter then I'll just have to drop a couple of coaches off the Bernina train.

I've been looking at freight trains at Filisur and if we want freight trains we also want a 700 class electric. I've noticed that Liliput have made the SBB rubbish container wagons. I've seen similar via the webcams, are they similar  to the RhB ones?

Cheers,

Mike Beard.

Offline Mike Beard

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Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #371 on: January 23, 2018, 10:54:44 AM »
Todays Thought.

If I buy something in Japan and it's declared in US$ I pay VAT and £8. :confused1:

If I buy something in Japan and it's declared in Yen it comes straight through. :confused2:

Happy Days,

Mike Beard.

Offline Gordon

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Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #372 on: January 23, 2018, 11:33:43 AM »

I've been looking at freight trains at Filisur and if we want freight trains we also want a 700 class electric. I've noticed that Liliput have made the SBB rubbish container wagons. I've seen similar via the webcams, are they similar  to the RhB ones?



A reminder there's one on Shapeways. For the time being mine is on a Tomix chassis with dummy central bogie sides.




.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 11:36:46 AM by Gordon »
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Offline Gordon

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Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #373 on: January 23, 2018, 11:39:41 AM »
Todays Thought.

If I buy something in Japan and it's declared in Yen it comes straight through. :confused2:
Mike Beard.

Hmm, even in Yen mine always goes via Parcelforce where money is added...


.
Sometime Publicity Officer, N Gauge Society

Swiss Railways Consultant
French Railways Consultant
European railway expert

First British N loco (in 1972): Farish GER Holden tank!
Modelling French N gauge since 1975
Modelling Swiss and German N gauge since 1971

Online njee20

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Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #374 on: January 23, 2018, 11:46:34 AM »
Todays Thought.

If I buy something in Japan and it's declared in Yen it comes straight through. :confused2:
Mike Beard.

Hmm, even in Yen mine always goes via Parcelforce where money is added...


The currency is an irrelevance, it's a lucky dip frankly, everything should incur import VAT assuming it's over £15, or over £39 if it's marked as a gift. Over £135 you should also incur Customs Duty. There's also a handling fee which is disproportionate to the cost of the duty charges in most cases. I've had stuff >£300 get through with no fees, and I've been charged £12 on a £30 order.

 

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