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Author Topic: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series  (Read 46680 times)

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Offline Mike Beard

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Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #345 on: January 21, 2018, 03:09:47 PM »
I'll probably get the "settings" bits from Osborns Models. I think they have them at much the same price and Michael will put them to one side so they get incorporated into a bigger order, it reduces the specific postage cost per item which is a very real consideration.

My mind is working away on layout design and I'm wondering if anybody out there has a spiral of any kind and if they have if they could tell me the radius and gradient and what a Ge4/4III or Allegra unit would pull up it? It could save me hours of work and a fortune in set track! :helpneededsign:

Thanks in Advance,

Mike Beard.

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Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #346 on: January 21, 2018, 03:12:39 PM »
Haulage is very rarely a concern with Kato locos, particularly given youíll be pulling short trains in the grand scheme of things.

Obviously totally different, but my 2+14 Eurostar will romp up a curved 2% gradient without any change in speed.

Offline Mike Beard

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Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #347 on: January 21, 2018, 03:29:38 PM »
Well thanks for that. Trains are not necessarily short as watching a few films shows it's nothing to see a Glacier Express with half a dozen EW coaches tacked on for good measure but probably only on the flat sections! No, My concern really is about a Glacier Express set or a complete Bernina set, trains of that order. Spiral design is a bit special and notoriously easy to get wrong unfortunately.

In the end it would have to be tested but it's nice to have that warm feeling that somebody else has done it before - and it works!

Mike Beard.

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Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #348 on: January 21, 2018, 03:51:34 PM »
6 coaches is really pretty short though, thatís my point.

Offline Mike Beard

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Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #349 on: January 21, 2018, 04:36:16 PM »
Oh yes, 6 coaches are short but they have mass and they have drag. When you are going round a curve there is a tendency for the coaches to try to derail towards the centre because they are in a higher than normal tension. So it's really drag and lift against tension, curve radius and gradient. Hence the question. I think I'm going to have to buy some set track and experiment.

I'm amazed nobody reading this thread has experience of spirals. :(

Mike Beard.

BTW Mr Moderator   Perhaps we could have an English spellchecker, not an American one? :unimpressed:

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Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #350 on: January 21, 2018, 04:51:42 PM »
You only asked about an hour ago, give it a chance!

That said, the easiest will be to DIY certainly, as there are lots of variables. The tendency for the vehicles to be pulled off the inside of the curve is much more prevalent on longer trains, Iíd expect a Ge4/4 to manage at least a 3% gradient on 9Ē curves without a worry, and much tighter would risk looking too abrupt.

Offline Mike Beard

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Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #351 on: January 21, 2018, 05:14:17 PM »
There is, of course, a stage before all this. The first thing to do is to take delivery of the Glacier Express add-on set and the short coupling set to trial around the minimum radius curve that will go round. I'm tending to think of about 225mm radius to start with but that may have to squeeze to 193mm which would increase the gradient unless I make it a proper spiral with 225 in and 193 out. Time will tell.

Mike Beard.

Offline retica

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Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #352 on: January 21, 2018, 06:02:25 PM »
1     Plaza japan are selling Ge4/4III body spares. No photograph but talks about 651. I'm wondering if by buying that body and a "cheap" Ge4/4III I could get an expensive Noch loco at a reasonable price?

This is not a NOCH version, it's the Kato standard red and silver Glacier Express body.

steve

Offline Gordon

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Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #353 on: January 21, 2018, 11:51:31 PM »
Just a couple of observations.

I'm wondering if by buying that body and a "cheap" Ge4/4III I could get an expensive Noch loco at a reasonable price?

2     Would it be any help if Tomy were to do, say, a GE4/4I to fit on one of their many super chassis?

You can get  Ge4/4III bodyshell on shapeways and paint it in any livery you wish. Admittedly it requires all the parts adding but the bodyshell is only £16.

.

Also, there is a Ge4/4I on Shapeways
Sometime Publicity Officer, N Gauge Society

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First British N loco (in 1972): Farish GER Holden tank!
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Offline Gordon

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Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #354 on: January 22, 2018, 12:56:12 AM »
6 coaches is really pretty short though, thatís my point.

Oh yes, 6 coaches are short but they have mass and they have drag.


I have had a Glacier Express set now since the whole Kato project began and I canít say Iíve noticed that much drag - they really are quite light and smooth running. Although I have not used them on gradients, I have run 6-coach sets round all manner of tight curves, reverse, curves etc without any problems.  I have run a double rake on my layout which has fairly tight curves.


Trains are not necessarily short as watching a few films shows it's nothing to see a Glacier Express with half a dozen EW coaches tacked on for good measure but probably only on the flat sections!


Correct, but not the bit about flat sections. Albula passenger train rakes are shorter nowadays but back in 2010
I saw some great stuff.


This is one of the longest passenger trains I have seen on the RhB, and it is certainly not only on the flat, as it is here tackling the bottom of the BergŁn - Preda Ďcarouselí!

There were 16 individual vehicles, and I would never have believed in 2010 that in 2017 I would be able to recreate the whole train in N gauge, which can now be done  using a mix of Kato RTR and shapeways items









And on the same day one of the other GEX workings was a double set so 12 GEX coaches. This does not happen any more.




.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 01:00:47 AM by Gordon »
Sometime Publicity Officer, N Gauge Society

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First British N loco (in 1972): Farish GER Holden tank!
Modelling French N gauge since 1975
Modelling Swiss and German N gauge since 1971

Offline Mike Beard

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Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #355 on: January 22, 2018, 09:33:42 AM »
It's a shame that NOCH are silly over their prices. It's also a shame that 651 is not a NOCH loco but currently to get one you have to buy a starter set 10-006 and they are expensive starting at £110 compared to the purchase of a complete 3101 @ £60 and a body for £30. Marginal isn't it? But you do end up with a spare body to paint!!

Nice pictures Gordon, very nice but they still don't solve my problem over model gradients. A trip to Model Railways Direct is called for, they are 10 miles away. Incidentally I wonder what the current draw on the overhead was and who held in the breaker while that set climbed the spiral?

Who told Faller it would be a good idea to make the Landwasserviadukt a 193mm radius circle? Has anybody got a set of plans......here we go again. Peco #1 radius at the least.

Cheers - full of cold,

Mike Beard.

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Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #356 on: January 22, 2018, 09:42:25 AM »
Agreed, a shame they've made it so small, you'd have thought a 9" radius at least would have been sensible.

Offline daffy

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Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #357 on: January 22, 2018, 10:06:08 AM »
It's a good job that Faller didn't model true, as the original Landwasser Viaduct has a curve radius of just 100 metres!

I strongly suspect that Faller chose 193mm as the nearest they could get to making the viaduct at least look approximately right, while using a compromise radius given that most of the European track manufacturers, both currently produced and still prevalent for some users, have 1st radius curves of this magnitude:
Fleischmann, Arnold and Piko have/had 1st radius set at 192mm.
Minitrix and Roco have it set at 194.6mm.
Mike

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Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #358 on: January 22, 2018, 10:10:33 AM »
But a bit restrictive to make it as tight as conceivable. Whilst there are plenty of manufacturers doing track with radii that small you have to assume that people will still seek to use the most gentle curves they can, and those integrating a significant structure like the Landwasser Viaduct probably have enough space for more than 193mm curves.

Offline Mike Beard

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Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #359 on: January 22, 2018, 10:15:36 AM »
100 metres is 666mm in 1:150th scale. so really given the nature of the railway I suppose I'd look at 333mm radius. Now I've already bent the Ratio viaduct to 18" radius; AutoCAD is SO useful, so I suppose I could do something similar to a similar straight viaduct of European manufacture.

Now I'm off to read up on Xtrak planning software.

Happy Daze,

Mike Beard.

 

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