!!

Not Registered?

Welcome!  Please register to view all of the new posts and forum boards - some of which are hidden to guests.  After registering and gaining 10 posts you will be able to sell and buy items on our N'porium.

If you have any problems registering, then please check your spam filter before emailing us.  Hotmail users seem to find their emails in the Junk folder.


Thanks for reading,
The NGF Staff.

Author Topic: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series  (Read 46212 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline njee20

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 22598
  • Posts: 4006
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #285 on: January 15, 2018, 03:55:14 PM »
Mis-typed from an ABe8/12 probably. ABe4/4 would be an odd choice.

Kato GE4/4s are 103mm over buffers, or 15.45m. The prototype is 16m, so the model is nearly 4mm short.

Bemo ones are 184mm, or 16.008m. So it's 0.009mm too long.

LBG G Scale ones are 65cm, or 14.62m, so they're the shortest of the lot, and IMO they look a bit squashed!

All figures proffered by Google, so may not be 100% accurate. Can measure all 3 next time I see my dad!

Offline retica

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 322
  • Country: nz
    • Awards
Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #286 on: January 15, 2018, 04:19:16 PM »
Mis-typed from an ABe8/12 probably. ABe4/4 would be an odd choice.

ABe4/4 is one of the two powered parts of the Allegra. Nothing odd at all.

steve 

Offline retica

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 322
  • Country: nz
    • Awards
Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #287 on: January 15, 2018, 04:25:01 PM »
Can't believe Kato still resist DCC compatibility quite so staunchly.

Please explain what you mean with that. Simply replacing the Kato analog PCB with a DCC decoder from digitrax or TCS, can it get any more "DCC compatible" than that ?

steve

Offline daffy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: Lapsed
  • Posts: 1895
  • Country: gb
  • Learning everyday
    • Awards
Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #288 on: January 15, 2018, 04:25:53 PM »
In reality the Ge 4/4 II is 12960mm, whereas the Ge 4/4 III is 16000mm over the buffers.

Scaled down that should put the Kato model of the III at 106.66mm, but in fact all the ones I have are approx 103mm.

The forthcoming Kato model of the II should be around 86.44mm, though oddly MSL show it listed with a length of 112mm! :o Oops!
Mike

Sufferin' succotash!

Offline retica

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 322
  • Country: nz
    • Awards
Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #289 on: January 15, 2018, 04:35:10 PM »
Equally does anybody know of a spares holding of traction tyres for the Ge4/4III anywhere in the world?

They are scheduled for February delivery.

steve

Offline Mike Beard

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 22460
  • Posts: 394
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #290 on: January 15, 2018, 05:04:13 PM »
Thanks for the news concerning the traction tyres for the Ge4/4III :)

To my dreaded draughtsmans eye the Kato pre-production Ge4/4II is certainly more "stubby" than its younger brother. I find it difficult to measure a loco on the layout. You have to decide if your going to run railways or collect them. 50+ years tells me I have never met a happy rivet counter! :laugh:

It is very strange about the ABe4/4. If you google it a number of production late model ABe4/4 appear in the photo section. However in the dim, distant past Kato may have made an ABe4/4 for somebody else in the same way they made locos for Atlas. :thumbsup:

Offline njee20

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 22598
  • Posts: 4006
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #291 on: January 15, 2018, 05:08:45 PM »
Can't believe Kato still resist DCC compatibility quite so staunchly.

Please explain what you mean with that. Simply replacing the Kato analog PCB with a DCC decoder from digitrax or TCS, can it get any more "DCC compatible" than that ?

Seriosuly? Of course it can - they could adhere to NMRA standards and fit sockets like every other manufacturer, rather than relying on two manufacturers making drop-in decoders to work with their proprietary designs. Surely that's obvious? What if I want to use Zimo, CT or ESU decoders? They have made zero concessions to DCC; TCS and Digitrax have simply worked around this.

Mis-typed from an ABe8/12 probably. ABe4/4 would be an odd choice.
ABe4/4 is one of the two powered parts of the Allegra. Nothing odd at all.

Ah, fair enough, was thinking of the old railcars.

Offline retica

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 322
  • Country: nz
    • Awards
Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #292 on: January 15, 2018, 05:20:07 PM »
Seriosuly? Of course it can - they could adhere to NMRA standards and fit sockets like every other manufacturer, rather than relying on two manufacturers making drop-in decoders to work with their proprietary designs. Surely that's obvious? What if I want to use Zimo, CT or ESU decoders? They have made zero concessions to DCC; TCS and Digitrax have simply worked around this.

Oohps, yeah coming from the 'Murican side of the hobby I am not that used to the NMRA sockets yet (Fox Valley Models have them) and simply exchanging the PC beats milling the frame any time. But you're right, a socket would make it more easy.

steve

Offline njee20

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 22598
  • Posts: 4006
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #293 on: January 15, 2018, 05:29:50 PM »
Fair enough, yeah, they're ubiquitous on UK stock now, my only first hand experience of converting a Kato model is a Eurostar where one of the pickups broke, I had to un-solder and re-use the LEDs from the original PCB, and then had to file the roof of the body in order to get it to refit. Not the most onerous task ever, but to call it DCC ready is a bit of a joke (not suggesting they do).

Offline retica

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 322
  • Country: nz
    • Awards
Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #294 on: January 15, 2018, 06:03:57 PM »
It is very strange about the ABe4/4. If you google it a number of production late model ABe4/4 appear in the photo section.

This is a very sad one  :worried: 

Offline Mike Beard

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 22460
  • Posts: 394
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #295 on: January 15, 2018, 06:32:18 PM »
Nowt to do with owt, but I always though that as the Cambrian line no longer has freight second hand stock and first class management from the RhB would be a fine thing for Welsh community.

Offline Gordon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1005
  • Country: 00
    • Awards
Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #296 on: January 16, 2018, 12:27:22 AM »
So I have today ordered a Bernina 9 car unit. Interesting. is it safe to assume that a Ge4/4III can the used to haul the 6 coaches if a railcar is not available?

It doesn’t happen in practice, but both are fitted with the same couplers so it is possible. At the moment all Bernina Express coaches are hauled by Allegra or Ge4/4II
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 12:32:52 AM by Gordon »
Sometime Publicity Officer, N Gauge Society

Swiss Railways Consultant
French Railways Consultant
European railway expert

First British N loco (in 1972): Farish GER Holden tank!
Modelling French N gauge since 1975
Modelling Swiss and German N gauge since 1971

Offline Gordon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1005
  • Country: 00
    • Awards
Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #297 on: January 16, 2018, 12:31:52 AM »
to me the Kato items are still more 'trainsety' than the Bemo offerings.

Even if they were ‘trainsety’ at the start, they certainly are not now.
Kato 1:150 scale is bound to be less detailed than Bemo stuff due to the smaller size, and if it is a bit more basic then I for one am not going to complain as the price (from source in Japan - not the horrendous German mark up!) is reasonable (Kato Allegra sample current UK shop price = £140; Bemo Allegra sample UK price = over £500.

The Kato EWI coaches are absolutely superb renditions of a type of coach I know extremely well, apart from the gap in the lower coach ends for the couplings which is an absolutely necessary compromise to make the coaches work in practice.


I've yet to see a proper layout in the flesh using the Kato range, but the MDS items look like they'd broaden the scope significantly to make it a more practical reality without scratchbuilding.

You are welcome to come and see my layout in the flesh at the European N gauge show this coming September.

Also, it really isn’t that hard to make a wagon or two, but of course not all RhB lines see freight wagons regularly anyway.

It's still fighting a battle of the scales too - as the track scales to a whopping 35% wider than the prototype.

I appreciate the track gauge is an issue for some people. All I will say is that once you have created a scenic layout it is hardly noticeable. And that is not just my own view. At exhibitions, looking at my layout people really don’t see a problem, and all I get from the viewing public is ‘wow that looks great, and so  realistic’ - and this includes senior members of the Swiss Railways Society and the Editor of Continental Modeller 
.
Sometime Publicity Officer, N Gauge Society

Swiss Railways Consultant
French Railways Consultant
European railway expert

First British N loco (in 1972): Farish GER Holden tank!
Modelling French N gauge since 1975
Modelling Swiss and German N gauge since 1971

Offline Gordon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1005
  • Country: 00
    • Awards
Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #298 on: January 16, 2018, 12:51:36 AM »

1. The MDS bogie vans are going to be a welcome addition but might we risk drowning in a sea of pure water as there are no other wagons readily available?

2. It's going to take a couple of years from now to produce anything approaching an exhibition layout as not everything necessary is available in 1:150 scale.

There are bogie vans, container well wagons and aggregates hoppers available from Shapeways, plus a now large range of old timer coaches and wagons; and it only takes about an hour to ‘kitbash’ an acceptable tank wagon or bogie flat from 1:160 European standard gauge. The Kato 1:150 helps here as the donor vehicles are already smaller being to 1:160.

My layout has been up and running since 2014, and has been exhibited at several shows ( booked for European Rail show this coming September. )

Nobody has noticed that there is a mixture of 1:148, 1:160 and 1:150 stuff. You can’t really tell the difference at the fabled ‘normal viewing distance for N scale’.

Note the following
1. British 1:148 items scenic items and road vehicles can be used (for example the Oxford VW vans)
2. Japanese 1:150 scenic items and road vehicles can be used. Helpful here is that as Switzerland does not have it’s own motor industry, Japanese cars are quite popular
3. Some Japanese buildings are surprisingly European in nature, the modern office block are quite similar to Swiss modern buildings (as the Swiss don’t seem to mind building monstrosities next to old timber buildings . Even some of the old style Japanese buildings are not far removed as Japan is mountainous.
4. If so desired one can use the old ‘distance’ thing and put 1:150 stuff towards the front and 1:160 behind (remember the 1970s when there were layouts with OO in the front and N gauge at the back ‘in the distance’)
Sometime Publicity Officer, N Gauge Society

Swiss Railways Consultant
French Railways Consultant
European railway expert

First British N loco (in 1972): Farish GER Holden tank!
Modelling French N gauge since 1975
Modelling Swiss and German N gauge since 1971

Offline Gordon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1005
  • Country: 00
    • Awards
Re: Kato Rhaetische Bahn series
« Reply #299 on: January 16, 2018, 01:11:49 AM »
In reality the Ge 4/4 II is 12960mm, whereas the Ge 4/4 III is 16000mm over the buffers. that should put the Kato model of the III at 106.66mm, but in fact all the ones I have are approx 103mm.

Kato GE4/4s are 103mm over buffers, or 15.45m. The proto is 16m, so model is nearly 4mm short.

It should be remembered that the one thing that is a ‘dangerous’ when scaling any N gauge item is the buffers/couplings as that is the one area where a model may have to be a compromise compared to the real thing. This is especially problematic with Swiss metre gauge as most vehicles have no buffers in the standard gauge sense. For this reason when scratchbuilding I always take the overall length of only the bodyshell from a dimension drawing. Unfortunately I can’t lay my hands on a Ge4/4III drawing…   

The question is where is the quoted 16000mm over buffers measured? If it includes the coupling, then the Kato body would be the correct length there or there abouts.

Out of interest the TT Trams Ge4/4III on shapeways is quoted as 104mm long and I assume TT Trams guys have done the homework - as all there other stuff excellent.

ps - sorry about all the posts but lots of interesting debate today!

.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 01:13:03 AM by Gordon »
Sometime Publicity Officer, N Gauge Society

Swiss Railways Consultant
French Railways Consultant
European railway expert

First British N loco (in 1972): Farish GER Holden tank!
Modelling French N gauge since 1975
Modelling Swiss and German N gauge since 1971

 

Please Support Us!
December Goal: £55.00
Due Date: Dec 31
Total Receipts: £317.00
Above Goal: £262.00
Site Currency: GBP
576% 
December Donations


Advertise Here
anything