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Author Topic: Beginner layout 4.5 by 1.5 feet max. Help!  (Read 1155 times)

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Offline Paulwhitt20

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Beginner layout 4.5 by 1.5 feet max. Help!
« on: December 24, 2017, 10:10:20 AM »
Hi,

I am trying to design a small shelf layout and its driving me mad nothing seems to work out to my satisfaction and I am looking for inspiration.

I have looked at the Layouts for beginners thread and like the idea of the Nuclear unloading facility (or cement works!) and a raised station/parcels on a separate line.

The problem I am having is how to run the loco round to take the train away back to the fiddle yard. I have this concept that a train arrives from the fiddle yard, loco uncouples drops of its wagons for unloading, and then picks up some more unloaded wagons to take back to the fiddle yard. Another loco then does some shunting (in an Inglenook type arrangement). Then assembles the train ready to depart with the loco. But the loco needs to run round to take the wagons away and its the run around that seems to be difficult to fit in. Is this operation prototypical?

I have designed this layout, (see attached PDF). Can you think of any improvements. Track will be PECO code 55 with electro frog points. The set track in the picture is just to get a measure for siding length, it will be replaced with flex track. I would also like to use remote uncoupling. The light blue is the station/parcels line at higher level. The lower line is the industry for switching. Fiddle yard is on the baseboard at the bottom left. (In the guise of a double track main line). This needs to be at the front as it is where I will be operating from.

DC or DCC operation. Locos diesel 20, 25, 31 etc. One nuclear flask but safety of the railway employees is important so a barrier wagon at each end of the flask.

Thanks and Merry Christmas.

Paul

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Beginner layout 4.5 by 1.5 feet max. Help!
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2017, 10:43:28 AM »
Happy to have a go at it for you, Paul, as long as you can wait 2-3 days

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Beginner layout 4.5 by 1.5 feet max. Help!
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2017, 04:47:09 PM »
@Paulwhitt20

Had a bit more time as an arrangement went down the tube.
The more I thought about this the more I thought you had perhaps overcomplicated things in the space available. Chances are the smallish diesels you refer to (classes 20,25,31 etc) would do their own shunting rather than have a separate loco take over. The way I see it, the longest piece of track needs to be between the 2 points where 'B' is in the following diagram.



Train arrives from 'A' (single line fiddle yard) and halts wagons at 'B'. Loco then reverses wagons into one or more of the sidings at the left and shunts them as you wish. Once the train has been sorted haul it out to 'B', uncouple the loco, proceed to 'C', run round the train, couple up and pull away into fiddle yard. If you wanted a second line in the fiddle yard you could run the original train into 'B', shunt the wagons into the sidings and then run that loco back into the fiddle yard. The second line in the fiddle yard would allow another loco to then come and shunt the wagons before taking them away.
The fewer points you have the longer the train you'll have space for.
Hope this helps

Offline Bob G

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Re: Beginner layout 4.5 by 1.5 feet max. Help!
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2017, 06:30:13 PM »
Here are some good ideas
You don't have to use Setrack or be limited by these sizes - just be inspired by these real life plans shrunk to model form

http://www.osbornsmodels.com/peco-new-plan-024-modern-micro-layout---cobra-railhead-16592-p.asp
http://www.osbornsmodels.com/peco-new-plan-022-hayle-wharves-16591-p.asp

HTH and Happy Christmas
Bob

Offline Paulwhitt20

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Re: Beginner layout 4.5 by 1.5 feet max. Help!
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2017, 06:42:08 PM »
Thanks for the replies. I have seen the osbourne models ones in the peco set track planning book and thought they looked interesting but was wanting a fiddle yard to give the impression of the rest of the world, but I will have another look and see if I can make something to work using code 55 track.

The other looks nice and simple and could be quick and easy to make.

I have just groined the n gauge society and am making my way through the handbook. What a good idea making a book as a reference guide for members.

Have a good Christmas.

Paul

Offline NeMo

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Re: Beginner layout 4.5 by 1.5 feet max. Help!
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2017, 07:49:55 PM »
I have looked at the Layouts for beginners thread and like the idea of the Nuclear unloading facility (or cement works!) and a raised station/parcels on a separate line.


Great idea. I did something similar a while back, and some of the ideas offered up to me are ones you might find helpful too.

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=22678.0

Taylor Precision Models make a nice kit for building barrier wagons on Peco 15' chassis. Of course they have the Peco version of Rapido couplings rather than NEM sockets, but apart from that they're dead easy to put together and were apparently much more commonly used than the version Farish produce. Mill Lane Sidings make a great gantry kit that's perfect for this sort of scene, and to boot, the photo on their web page is my layout with the TPM wagons in use!

http://www.mill-lane-sidings.co.uk/mlsheavydutygantrycrane.html

Cheers, NeMo

Offline Bob G

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Re: Beginner layout 4.5 by 1.5 feet max. Help!
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2017, 11:22:54 PM »
I sold my two TPM barrier wagons on EBay a month or so ago. They were for the post 1992 era so well out of my timeline.
Got a good price for them too. They are very collectable/acquirable.
The unmodified (Hopper intact) versions produced by Farish are OK for the late 1970s and 1980s.
They don't look much above the chassis line, but they are in fact better detailed underneath than the Farish hopper.

HTH
Bob
« Last Edit: December 24, 2017, 11:24:13 PM by Bob G, Reason: extra text added »

Offline Paulwhitt20

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Re: Beginner layout 4.5 by 1.5 feet max. Help!
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2017, 08:46:21 AM »
After watching a video on Westbury Cement works layout I have decided to do a cement works. Mainly due to the fact I have already got several cement hoppers and a built medusa cement kit from walthers. The track plan is below.

Baseboard frame is built.

Next decision is how to wire the track. DC or DCC?  I have A DCC controller from another layout but no DCC locos. Points are electrofrog with seep point motors. If I go DCC will it be easier to wire all track (with insulating joiners on the frog rails).  Or if Ingo DC could I wire two controlllers, one to each of the left tracks.

I anticipate keeping a loco on the top siding and then running trains in from the left possibly two locos one on each track at the same time.

How would you wire it?

Thanks
Paul

Offline NeMo

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Re: Beginner layout 4.5 by 1.5 feet max. Help!
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2017, 10:05:00 AM »
If you get a chance, go visit Watford Junction. There's an extremely compact concrete terminal by platform 11.

Several cool things about it. One is that the aggregate unloading shed is on a line that's too small for the trains that visit it. So what happens is that the train is split in two, and a 66 or 59 has to handle the two halves as separate trains, shunting them and reconnecting them before leaving. There are lots of short movements in what is basically a run around loop with a single siding and the connecting line in front.

Couple that with a single track but overhead electrified passenger platform in front, and you've got a really lovely prototype. I'm minded to model it myself some day.

Cheers, NeMo

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Re: Beginner layout 4.5 by 1.5 feet max. Help!
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2017, 10:32:18 AM »
I think a cement works is a good idea. Less often modelled in N as breweries and woodyards etc (both of which I have).
Looking forward to progress.
Iím DC myself but others more knowledgeable with DCC than myself can advise better re which way to go.
If it looks right then it most probably is right.


Offline SmileyFace

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Re: Beginner layout 4.5 by 1.5 feet max. Help!
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2017, 11:45:53 AM »

How would you wire it?

Thanks
Paul

Hi Paul.
For DC you will require 4 feeds - 1 on each of the tracks on the left, 1 on the centre track on the extreme right (beside the round silos) and finally 1 between the 2 facing points on the upper track. You will also need to insulate both tracks between each feed so all the 4 feeds are isolated from each other.  Hope this helps.
SF

Offline Karhedron

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Re: Beginner layout 4.5 by 1.5 feet max. Help!
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2017, 11:59:26 AM »
Maybe worth looking at a "Piano Line" style layout. There are plenty of variations depending on the exact space you have available but the basic idea is that the exit to the fiddle yard comes off the run-around loop about half-way down the layout.

The example shown below is 5'x1' in 00 gauge so you would be able to fit something a bit more complex in using N Gauge. The station is obviously optional and you could easily make it a freight-only setup.



There is a thread on various ideas here.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/24517-time-to-tune-the-piano/
Well, that's just not good enough. Some fount of all knowledge you are!  :no:  ;)

Offline AlexanderJesse

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Re: Beginner layout 4.5 by 1.5 feet max. Help!
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2018, 02:51:43 PM »
I have used Traxeditor.com (a online layout designer) to check how the Cobra Railhead layout could be done using Peco 55 rails. Here the two layouts are on one picture.



The width should be ok, for the length maybe you have to shorten a few sidings.

The other tracklayout will be done soon.
=================
have a disney day
vapour is just water and therefor clean

Offline AlexanderJesse

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Re: Beginner layout 4.5 by 1.5 feet max. Help!
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2018, 05:50:39 PM »
Using Scarm I also did a comparision of ST and code 55 for the Hayle Wharves layout:


Again, the width should fit your baseboard with exception of the exiting curve... make that straight and it works. The length might need some adapting of siding lengths
=================
have a disney day
vapour is just water and therefor clean

Offline Paulwhitt20

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Re: Beginner layout 4.5 by 1.5 feet max. Help!
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2018, 07:30:29 PM »
Thanks, some good ideas there.

Currently I am working on this as it fits my space and requirements.






(Testing posting a picture)

 

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