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Author Topic: Hattons and Farish  (Read 5544 times)

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Online Roy L S

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Re: Hattons and Farish
« Reply #75 on: Yesterday at 10:43:50 AM »
I have read the recent exchanges with interest.

Firstly I do not think Bachmann's practice of limiting discounts (initially on new releases) does anything to push up prices. The wholesale price at which they sell to retailers would be the one that impacts ability to discount, and there is no suggestion that this had radically changed in relation to RRP that I can find anywhere.

Secondly, much as some would like to believe it I do not think that prices are being kept high for reasons of profit motive. Anyone who has watched the news and developments on this forum will know that there are a multitude of factors that have pushed up prices, in particular wages policy in China which directly impacts production and assembly costs. Here I do think in N there must surely be scope to simplify elements of manufacture with certain detail moulded on not glued on separately but manufacturers are between a rock and a hard place as we modellers demand ever higher standards, but in our typically British way do not seem prepared to pay for it.


Personally I think this dispute (and with resepect Chris M I only know what I have read and don't know full specfics from the Horse's Mouth - either Hattons or Bachmann) but what I would say is that to an extent, if the situation is as we understand, both Bachmann will be hit by losing the purchasing of probably it's biggest UK customer which doubtless runs into many hundreds of thousands of pounds and Hattons by having a massive hole in it's inventory for which people will shop elsewhere.


My own personal perception of the way Bachmann operate is that is appears to be too rigid and lacks he agility it really needs in this day and age, it is all very well to have policies that on the face of it are very laudible but that is no good if sales and market share suffer on an ongoing basis because there is no flecxibility.


Roy

Online Dr Al

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Re: Hattons and Farish
« Reply #76 on: Yesterday at 11:15:54 AM »
Firstly I do not think Bachmann's practice of limiting discounts (initially on new releases) does anything to push up prices. The wholesale price at which they sell to retailers would be the one that impacts ability to discount, and there is no suggestion that this had radically changed in relation to RRP that I can find anywhere.

I think the rigidity of not offering the same wholesale discount to smaller buyers is the thing here - and in this case I think they are helping kill off the small retailer - ability to compete here would be far better.

I think that the truth is Bachmann have seen that they (and Hornby, and all other traditional manufacturers) are at real risk from new starts like Hattons. Why? Not because of quality, or the product, but of simple economics - Hattons immediately cut out the middle man (i.e. a intermediate manufacturer that also has to earn a profit), so their margins can only be substantially higher.

I suspect the means by which models are made and sold may move increasingly quickly from manufacturer and separate retailer, to direct retailers who manufacture fairly rapidly assuming Hattons are successful, giving them more control, and more margin.

Cheers,
Alan

Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

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Offline red_death

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Re: Hattons and Farish
« Reply #77 on: Yesterday at 11:40:56 AM »
Except that with Hattons also wholesale-ing their own products they are losing some of that advantage both in terms of margin and exclusivity. So swings and roundabouts!



Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Hattons and Farish
« Reply #78 on: Yesterday at 11:55:41 AM »

I think the rigidity of not offering the same wholesale discount to smaller buyers is the thing here - and in this case I think they are helping kill off the small retailer - ability to compete here would be far better.


I would go along with that. Some years ago I wanted 5 Farish locos and went to my local dealer first. I asked if they could provide any discount for such a purchase (at the time some £350-£400) and I was told 'No way - we'll lose money'

simple economics - Hattons immediately cut out the middle man (i.e. a intermediate manufacturer that also has to earn a profit), so their margins can only be substantially higher.


Maybe I've misunderstood this but surely Hattons/whoever has to pay someone to make their models and that someone will need to make a profit.
Example - the Hattons Garrett will not be made at break even by someone so Hattons can make a killing.

Online longbow

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Re: Hattons and Farish
« Reply #79 on: Yesterday at 12:12:03 PM »
By going direct Hattons benefit by eliminating Bachmann's sales margin (ie their mark-up over manufacturing cost). Bachmann would also lose their in-house manufacturing profit to whoever supplies Hattons.

Offline class37025

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Re: Hattons and Farish
« Reply #80 on: Yesterday at 01:28:09 PM »
maybe slightly off topic, but I tend to use Hattons as my go to retailer because I can normally get what I want in one place / one parcel.

might be paint / glue / scenics / N gauge / or 1:76 for wargames vehicles.

as I see it, if I need to go elsewhere for Farish N gauge, I might also be able to get the rest there as well, so why split my order ?

I would add that I am not one of those people who do their weekly shop at about six different supermarkets, saving a penny here, a penny there, and spending a quid on fuel  :no:

so if Hattons cannot be my one-stop retailer, they might lose all my business [ SWMBO is around so I decline to commit suicide by adding what that might cost  :-[ ]
typed by fur box mechanic - dictated by brain on a chain

Offline njee20

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Re: Hattons and Farish
« Reply #81 on: Yesterday at 03:29:27 PM »
Surely any distributor offers quantity discounts to retailers who are buying larger volumes, thatís just basic economics, and nothing to do with evil Bachmann out to screw over the humble local shop.

My standard anecdote on this... some years ago I was buying some brakes for a new bike. They were £200 each, which is pretty high end, so low volume. The distributor offered discounts for 2, 4 and 8 brakes, something like 2%, 5% and 10% discount respectively. I placed my order, and was told it was delayed as Chain Reaction (the Hattonís of the cycling world) has ordered 200 of them. What sort of discount must you be able to negotiate on those volumes?! Although Iíve read itís not the case I canít believe that the big retailers donít get better trade margins. 

Online jacowin80

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Re: Hattons and Farish
« Reply #82 on: Yesterday at 07:04:39 PM »
The smaller retailers can also put in the same size of order as the likes of Hatton's and Rails and will (probably) get the same kinds of discounts.  It all comes down to if they can afford the outlay and are willing to take the risk.  My dad managed his own shops for most of his working life and as a sole retailer he never got the kind of discounts that chains did.  His big selling point was good old fashioned customer service like you get in a lot of little model shops!

As far as Hatton's not stocking Farish how many people will be happy with a Dapol 66 in the livery they are wanting be? and as for most things coming away with nothing at all!  I know I will look for a while but eventually I will have to go elsewhere.  Unless Hattons are planning on duplicating the whole Bachmann range surely they are on to a no win. 

Offline austinbob

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Re: Hattons and Farish
« Reply #83 on: Yesterday at 07:38:16 PM »
I must admit that whilst I used to buy a fair number of items from Hattons as my online retailer of choice I now prefer to support my local(ish) model shop in Alton Hampshire. This shop is one of a dying breed giving excellent service and advice and a reasonable discount. So I'm not too bothered about Hattons problems, although I hope they sort out the problems with Bachmann for the benefit of our hobby in general.  :beers:
Size matters - especially if you don't have a lot of space - and N gauge is the answer!

Bob Austin

 

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