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Author Topic: Dr Al's workbench - Fowler 2-6-4T  (Read 59307 times)

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Offline Delboy

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Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
« Reply #480 on: May 27, 2019, 11:09:11 AM »
Seconded.
Excellent work Alan.
She who must be obeyed says I am spending too much time on this forum. I love her dearly but what does she know?

Offline Bulliedman

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Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
« Reply #481 on: May 28, 2019, 09:55:40 AM »
Hi Alan

Which wheels did you use to re-wheel the compound ?

Andy

Offline Dr Al

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Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
« Reply #482 on: May 28, 2019, 10:00:22 AM »
Which wheels did you use to re-wheel the compound ?

Farish A4/Duchess/Castle/King (they are all the same).

They needed crank pins drilling out to accept the pins used on the 4P.

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.” – Dr. Carl Sagan

Offline Stevie DC

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Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
« Reply #483 on: May 28, 2019, 11:28:09 AM »
Farish A4/Duchess/Castle/King (they are all the same).

You fooled me here Alan, I thought they were open spokes! :goggleeyes:

Excellent work all round!

Offline Dr Al

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Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
« Reply #484 on: May 29, 2019, 09:30:57 AM »
You fooled me here Alan, I thought they were open spokes! :goggleeyes:

The front bogie wheels are, the rest aren't.

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.” – Dr. Carl Sagan

Offline CarriageShed

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Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
« Reply #485 on: May 29, 2019, 10:02:00 AM »
First is a Farish 4P. This model is pretty elderly, and will never be a stunning representation, but there's lots to be done.

Modifications include the following:
- Replacement Bachfarish wheels throughout.
- front end detailing, lamp irons, coupling hook, vac pipe
- cylinder tops re-shaped
- larger front bogie wheels fitted and modified front bogie to accommodate them (clearing the cylinders is a real challenge on this model)
- a new scale BH Enterprises tender, modified with pickups (necessary for this model)




Lovely work as always. The only thing I can spot missing is the cab handrails, but that's an easy fix :)

I have several of these 4Ps for my layout and they all need to be converted into 2Ps by removing the cylinders. I've also bought a Union Mills complete front bogie to see if that will work as a replacement for the Farish one. Failing that I have UM front bogie wheels on their own to try out. One day I'll actually get around to trying it!

Offline Bulliedman

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Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
« Reply #486 on: May 29, 2019, 10:37:15 AM »
First is a Farish 4P. This model is pretty elderly, and will never be a stunning representation, but there's lots to be done.

Modifications include the following:
- Replacement Bachfarish wheels throughout.
- front end detailing, lamp irons, coupling hook, vac pipe
- cylinder tops re-shaped
- larger front bogie wheels fitted and modified front bogie to accommodate them (clearing the cylinders is a real challenge on this model)
- a new scale BH Enterprises tender, modified with pickups (necessary for this model)




Lovely work as always. The only thing I can spot missing is the cab handrails, but that's an easy fix :)

I have several of these 4Ps for my layout and they all need to be converted into 2Ps by removing the cylinders. I've also bought a Union Mills complete front bogie to see if that will work as a replacement for the Farish one. Failing that I have UM front bogie wheels on their own to try out. One day I'll actually get around to trying it!
Turned a couple into 2Ps for the same reason, the Chimney needs some work, I am replacing with N Brass one and one is going to have a Johnson/Deeley Tender from a Bachmann Farish 4F to represent the two that ran in that form up until the mid 50s.

Offline CarriageShed

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Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
« Reply #487 on: May 29, 2019, 11:36:59 AM »
Turned a couple into 2Ps for the same reason, the Chimney needs some work, I am replacing with N Brass one and one is going to have a Johnson/Deeley Tender from a Bachmann Farish 4F to represent the two that ran in that form up until the mid 50s.

What's wrong with the chimney? I have photos of 2Ps with exactly the 4P's chimney so I can't see the need to change it at all unless you're working on a specific loco that underwent changes.

Offline Dr Al

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Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
« Reply #488 on: May 29, 2019, 11:40:26 AM »
In terms of conversion to 2P, I kind of don't see there's much point nowadays, as a superior 2P can be obtained from Union Mills. It's good as it has a better scale boiler diameter.

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.” – Dr. Carl Sagan

Offline CarriageShed

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Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
« Reply #489 on: May 29, 2019, 11:53:31 AM »
There's a bit of a budget constraint factor in my collection. I needed three or four, and second-hand Farishes were less than half the price of new UMs at the time.

Offline Bulliedman

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Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
« Reply #490 on: May 29, 2019, 12:26:14 PM »
Turned a couple into 2Ps for the same reason, the Chimney needs some work, I am replacing with N Brass one and one is going to have a Johnson/Deeley Tender from a Bachmann Farish 4F to represent the two that ran in that form up until the mid 50s.

What's wrong with the chimney? I have photos of 2Ps with exactly the 4P's chimney so I can't see the need to change it at all unless you're working on a specific loco that underwent changes.

Looking at the pictures of 2Ps at Bath IMHO the 4P Compound has a Stove Pipe Chimney and the 2P has a far more elegant chimney which is curved top and bottom , and has no lip at the front. I used a N Brass 4mm chimney on my first attempt and it improves the look and proportions of the front end. Given that the smoke box comes off as a unit its quite easy to do.

Dr Al did you also add the framing on the front footplate ?

Andy P

Offline Dr Al

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Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
« Reply #491 on: May 30, 2019, 09:53:29 AM »
Dr Al did you also add the framing on the front footplate ?

The framing is slightly extended, though that particular detail was done by a previous owner prior to me.

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.” – Dr. Carl Sagan

Offline Dr Al

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Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
« Reply #492 on: July 02, 2019, 11:47:55 PM »
Occasionally, you stumble upon an absolute gem on the secondhand market, and this must be such.

It's a scratchbuilt (well, based on some various Farish parts) western region 47xxx 2-8-0. I have no idea who the builder was, but the model is a very nice representation of the real thing. It was pretty paint-rough, and with damage to the tender top as pictured.







It looks to be the following:
- Farish Hall rear body
- Farish Castle or hall front end
- Farish Hall tender top
- Farish Hall tender frame
- Farish Prairie wheels, cylinders and connecting rods, with scratchbuilt coupling rods
- Scratchbuilt loco chassis block (free wheeler)
- Scratchbuilt tender drive mechanism with Mashima open frame 5 pole motor driving Farish worms and intermediate gears, very similar to a Union Mills drive.
- Farish front bogie with Minitrix wheels.

I have not figured out the source of the tender wheels. Running wise, it ran, but the loco had a limp as did the tender.

As an 'interesting oddity' this is ideal for a sympathetic refurbishment, trying to retain as much of the original model as possible in respect to the original builder.

The first task was modernisation, and hopefully removal of the loco limp. This comprised a wheel replacement, with the Prairie wheels replaced with modern Farish 3MT new tool wheels. Remarkably the rods fit over the crank pins perfectly without being too loose or needing opened out, apart from one hole that seemed slightly out of place and needed opening out. I suspect this was part of the cause of the original limp.



I also took a little of the heavy paint off to see what horrors may lay below, but fortunately none - some nice rivet detail on the cab roof has become more visible, and so far no massive filler amounts or suchlike. Whoever built this certainly had a fair idea what they were doing.

Second task was tender top - this unfortunately is beyond reasonable repair, so a replacement was sought and substituted. This too is a Farish top, so identical to the original. I have started adding some extra detail in the rear handrails to match the loco. I hope to only have to re-line this to match the loco once it is painted, as lining is missing on one side, but paintwork is otherwise crisp.



The original tender was crammed with lead which will need to be transferred across. But after all this the model now runs better, with no limp on the loco and a tender wobble that's almost certainly down to traction tyres, so this should be easy to put right.

Next will be more cleaning back, probably replacement buffers, and thoughts on a backhead as the cab is completely empty (would have had a motor there in the original Hall).

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.” – Dr. Carl Sagan

Offline Stevie DC

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Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
« Reply #493 on: July 03, 2019, 12:33:51 AM »
That looks rather nice Alan, I'm sure that it will be an enjoyable restoration job for you.  8)

Offline thebrighton

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Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
« Reply #494 on: July 03, 2019, 09:13:08 AM »
A great find and, as you say, a well built model originally.

 

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