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Author Topic: Introducing Revolution Trains  (Read 32480 times)

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Offline Truffles

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Re: Introducing Revolution Trains
« Reply #120 on: February 08, 2015, 01:23:31 PM »
Personalty I would like to see 'Revolution' concentrate on real gaps in the market that allow a whole layout to be suddenly viable.... doing things like 'Kestrel', 'Lion' etc would just be gimmicky one off locos that have no real value in terms of people getting a model that suddenly makes a layout viable.

Revolution has the potential to really open up a market for the development of more interesting layouts and change the perception of N Gauge generally. So I would personally lobby for more EMU's and DMU's that are dreadfully under represented in the N Gauge market.

Offline red_death

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Re: Introducing Revolution Trains
« Reply #121 on: February 08, 2015, 01:46:25 PM »
Some very interesting comments!

Just to be clear - I did check with Tank before I posted this thread.

Advertising vs engaging with modellers is a difficult one. I don't have the answer on where one ends and the other begins but there is no doubt that for our business model to continue to work that we really need to work with the modelling community - alternatively we only offer what we are interested in and then stop which would seem to be a shame and a wasted opportunity. We can produce models that the mainstream manufacturers would not take a chance on. Final point on advertising etc is that we are very aware that every £ we spend ultimately gets passed through to customers. I don't think Tank would mind at all if Farish or Dapol wished to engage directly with us!

On whether we are a commercial enterprise etc - the simple answer is yes in that we offer things for sale, but not all companies are the same! There is a big difference between doing something in your spare time to hopefully benefit the N gauge community and a manufacturer out for profit. I've no problem with either model but they are not the same. As Ben said we set up the ltd company to run the accounts of the Pendolino through (we'd have been mad not to) and realised if it worked that we could use the same model potentially for other projects.

Cheers Mike



Offline woodbury22uk

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Re: Introducing Revolution Trains
« Reply #122 on: February 08, 2015, 01:53:05 PM »
I think you have something there Truffles. Strangely enough the Pendolino grew out of contention that electrics were poor sellers. Now we are to have a train that runs between London, the Midlands and the North West and Scotland, with the potential to unlock layout possibilities over wide areas for which for which some existing models already exist.

Are there similar iconic trains that would unlock other regions, or do we have those already with Voyagers, HSTs, IC225s, and Class 67 push-pull trains for the current era and covering the past 35+ years? Is it just the multiple units, and maybe some specialised freight vehicles that will widen the appeal of the GW Mainline and branches since the 1970s?

For the (earlier) hauled stock periods the main BR stock from Mk1 onwards is being addressed, albeit with a lack of modern a/c Mk2 models, and the earlier still period is also being addressed with ex-Big Four coaches. The difficult area is steam locomotives where the co-ordinated view is harder to achieve because of region specific usage.

I have a feeling that the multiple unit route has the best potential.
Mike

Over-user of brackets and quotation marks.

Wondering how many pedants can dance of the head of a pin.


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Re: Introducing Revolution Trains
« Reply #123 on: February 08, 2015, 02:11:21 PM »
I think truffles is right there is a woeful lack of Multiple units on offer in reality from the end of steam to current day with off the top of my head there been fewer that 20 such models for us to choose from.
However to concentrate mostly on them is a tunneling the view, granted every era and area is missing a lot of stock from the big 2 may it be either the class 81 - 85 series for the 1970s / 80s west coast to the 180s on the great western and the long list of other candidates.

This is he chance the N gauge community as a whole has a chance to have their say and put out money where our mouth is (not loads of money but a big mouth in my case   :-[ ) I am sure Ben and Mike will have every success in getting models to the market, even if models don't sell anywhere near what Farish and Dapol would look at if we as a community show them what we want in the models then they will have to start looking not only at more models but at the supporting products such as scenics.

I firmly support what Mike and Ben are doing and will be following revolution both in terms of interest and models I want that they feel there is demand to offer as I see it as a positive step for US as a community as a whole!

Offline Richard G Dallimore

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Re: Introducing Revolution Trains
« Reply #124 on: February 08, 2015, 02:41:08 PM »
Advertising vs engaging with modellers is a difficult one. I don't have the answer on where one ends and the other begins but there is no doubt that for our business model to continue to work that we really need to work with the modelling community - alternatively we only offer what we are interested in and then stop which would seem to be a shame and a wasted opportunity. We can produce models that the mainstream manufacturers would not take a chance on. Final point on advertising etc is that we are very aware that every £ we spend ultimately gets passed through to customers. I don't think Tank would mind at all if Farish or Dapol wished to engage directly with us!

On whether we are a commercial enterprise etc - the simple answer is yes in that we offer things for sale, but not all companies are the same! There is a big difference between doing something in your spare time to hopefully benefit the N gauge community and a manufacturer out for profit. I've no problem with either model but they are not the same. As Ben said we set up the ltd company to run the accounts of the Pendolino through (we'd have been mad not to) and realised if it worked that we could use the same model potentially for other projects.

Cheers Mike

On Advertising I feel that most of use who advertise via a banner on here are in the same boat as you and we have to try and cover the cost of it from the mark up on products ie pass it on to the customer. To say that you can not afford a banner on here because you will have to pass it on is a bit disingenuous when it cost very little and your turn over is going to be 100's of thousands of pounds a year.
Regards
Richard
Formerly NtasticShop
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Offline Branchie

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Re: Introducing Revolution Trains
« Reply #125 on: February 08, 2015, 04:25:06 PM »
Sounds like an interesting development Ben & Mike. Good luck with your endeavours.

Offline Pengi

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Re: Introducing Revolution Trains
« Reply #126 on: February 08, 2015, 06:51:37 PM »
Personalty I would like to see 'Revolution' concentrate on real gaps in the market that allow a whole layout to be suddenly viable.... doing things like 'Kestrel', 'Lion' etc would just be gimmicky one off locos that have no real value in terms of people getting a model that suddenly makes a layout viable.

Revolution has the potential to really open up a market for the development of more interesting layouts and change the perception of N Gauge generally. So I would personally lobby for more EMU's and DMU's that are dreadfully under represented in the N Gauge market.
Totally agree. For the current day 1/148 EMU modeller, there is only one train, the Farish 350 Desiro :(
Just one Pendolino, give it to me, a beautiful train, from Italy

Offline PostModN66

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Re: Introducing Revolution Trains
« Reply #127 on: February 08, 2015, 07:13:25 PM »
Personalty I would like to see 'Revolution' concentrate on real gaps in the market that allow a whole layout to be suddenly viable.... doing things like 'Kestrel', 'Lion' etc would just be gimmicky one off locos that have no real value in terms of people getting a model that suddenly makes a layout viable.

Revolution has the potential to really open up a market for the development of more interesting layouts and change the perception of N Gauge generally. So I would personally lobby for more EMU's and DMU's that are dreadfully under represented in the N Gauge market.
Totally agree. For the current day 1/148 EMU modeller, there is only one train, the Farish 350 Desiro :(

Me too.  I hope that the Pendo will encourage a flurry of WCML layouts that will drive demand for OHLE EMUs....

...but of course they have to be commercially viable.........fingers crossed!

Cheers Jon  :)
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Online Ben A

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Re: Introducing Revolution Trains
« Reply #128 on: February 08, 2015, 07:27:13 PM »

Hi Jon, Pengi

The point is that with Revolution we can offer a mechanism to put this to the test.  It's all well and good some of us saying OHLE doesn't sell because there aren't the variety of models needed to create a convincing picture, but with this mechanism we can offer it to people as a tangible possibility and let them decide whether they want to or not.

And once people have seen test shots of the Pendolino we'd like to think thoughts of WCML will crystallise in lots of minds...

cheers

Ben A.



Offline PLD

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Re: Introducing Revolution Trains
« Reply #129 on: February 08, 2015, 07:58:24 PM »
Out of interest, does anyone know if the models of unique engines Tornado and DELTIC sold well or not?
My understanding (without any figures to back it up) is that the set with the Deltic in sold very well, the individual locos less so. Possibly because the set was only a few pounds more than the loco on its own?

The first batch of Tornados (British Railways Apple Green) sold out very quickly, and the Brunswich Green batch were almost as rapid, but I believe the BR Blue ones have been significantly slower... Whether that is a refection of livery preferences, price increases, or market saturation I don't know...

Offline Roy L S

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Re: Introducing Revolution Trains
« Reply #130 on: February 08, 2015, 08:00:22 PM »
I think it would be a shame personally if all energy was focussed on OHLE EMU types solely.

It is of course up to Ben and Mike what projects they take on, and I know it is an area of personal interest to them but OHLE/Electrics will only ever be one comparatively "niche" area of British N and to me it would be a shame if that were the extent of their ambition.

Much better to grow British N as a whole (including OHLE as part of that) surely?

Roy

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Re: Introducing Revolution Trains
« Reply #131 on: February 08, 2015, 08:15:57 PM »
Roy,

I agree to solely aim at 25kv OHLE EMU fleets would be a shame, on the flip side any kind of EMU or in fact and kind of electric on the market has been largely ignored in some cases totally ignored.

Reality is electrics love them or hate them have been the most under represented area of interest for many a year and now Mike and Ben have given the modeller the say and the long wanted electric may have a chance to see daylight, this makes the demand for all the different types of electrics high. High enough to look into producing that's another story though.

Offline MikeDunn

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Re: Introducing Revolution Trains
« Reply #132 on: February 08, 2015, 08:22:31 PM »
The first batch of Tornados (British Railways Apple Green) sold out very quickly, and the Brunswich Green batch were almost as rapid, but I believe the BR Blue ones have been significantly slower... Whether that is a refection of livery preferences, price increases, or market saturation I don't know...
Oh please ... !  Many (all ?) LNER engines look awful in that blue !!!  Even the diseasals looked worse with that slapped on them than the previous green !

I'd certainly think long & hard if I had a choice of an ex-LNER in BR Blue or nothing ... and might go for nothing !

Reality is electrics love them or hate them have been the most under represented area of interest for many a year
And likely for good reasons ...  It's been widely said that the existing ones are poor sellers ... can you blame a large manufacturer not wanting to invest in such if the return will be 10 years coming instead of 1 or 2 ?

Offline Only Me

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Re: Introducing Revolution Trains
« Reply #133 on: February 08, 2015, 08:26:35 PM »
Personally I like the blue, however as many of you know my mind is warped and sense of humour twisted 😄

Off to get me coat.!

Offline red_death

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Re: Introducing Revolution Trains
« Reply #134 on: February 08, 2015, 08:56:26 PM »
And likely for good reasons ...  It's been widely said that the existing ones [electrics] are poor sellers ... can you blame a large manufacturer not wanting to invest in such if the return will be 10 years coming instead of 1 or 2 ?

Sure, but that is part of the point of setting up Revolution in that we are not bound by the same demands on return as the large manufacturers.

I think it would be a shame personally if all energy was focussed on OHLE EMU types solely.

As I posted just now on t'other place - we have no intention of just restricting things to EMUs.

As I also said, we'd much rather people focussed on the positives of why a particular project should be produced than the potential negatives of an alternative project that doesn't interest them so much - asking the difficult questions is our job  ;D

Cheers, Mike



 

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