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Author Topic: European N gauge goofs  (Read 6488 times)

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Offline Hiawatha

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Re: European N gauge goofs
« Reply #30 on: November 19, 2017, 10:11:50 AM »
BTW, it bears a lot of resemblance to another Fleischmann Starter set loco, of the 'Edelweiss Privatbahn'. Again, this is one I am unsure about its origin and authenticity. Ref is 737104, and these pics show the similarity. Seems the latest is a modification of the earlier issue to me, with different coaches etc, but perhaps you may be able to provide clarity:

737104 -

I note that some sellers show the operating company merely as 'Verschiedene', or various.


While the red version is indeed pure fantasy with nothing to be found in Switzerland that's remotely resembling the model, for the blue Edelweiss Lokalbahn one Fleischmann had a concrete prototype in mind: the Bavarian Zugspitzbahn.


© Gerd Hahn – from http://www.bahnbilder.de/name/galerie/kategorie/Erste/hierarchie1/Deutschland/hierarchie2/Zahnradbahnen/digitalfotografie/288.html

However, being 1000-mm narrow-gauge, the Zugspitzbahn locomotives were much smaller (6.9 m long vs 8.7 m for the E69 05). Although it looks that way in the photo, they weren't cog locomotives and were only used for the valley portion. The real cog locomotives were boxcabs and inspired the older Fleischmann ELB track-cleaning/cog locomotives 7969/7305.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 06:28:40 AM by Hiawatha, Reason: postimage links restored »
Peter

Offline daffy

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Re: European N gauge goofs
« Reply #31 on: November 19, 2017, 10:30:53 AM »
Thanks for that detail Hiawatha. :thumbsup:

With so many real Swiss locos that could be modelled, it is somewhat irritating, for whatever economic reasons they may have, that a manufacturer produces these fictions. If they were of the ilk of 'Thomas the Tank engine' origin it would be understandable, and perhaps buyable as a bit of fun, but they are not, and I won't.

Not that my ranting will change things one iota! :D

 :beers:
Mike

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Offline bbaldwin7

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Re: European N gauge goofs
« Reply #32 on: July 31, 2019, 06:22:11 AM »
FLEISCHMANN Cog Railway Box-Cab /Jack-Shaft Electric Loco

Yes, this is a pure fantasy design, but quite a bit of thought probably
went into the model’s final configuration.

Fleischmann's impetus in offering an N-scale rack & pinion mountain
railway can certainly be assigned to its ability to climb gradients. Cog
trains could offer a fifth, or even a sixth, level of track on layouts where
normal mainline trains could only hope to climb through two, or two-and-
a-half, levels within the same surface dimensions.

Decades ago, when the manufacturer decided to offer their cog railway
system in N-scale, they also found that they really needed a generic
type loco.  While most cog (rack & pinion) German regional railways
were not standard-gauge, the model maker never contemplated anything
but a standard-gauge entry.  They wanted its cars and locos to be
interchangeable with 9mm N-gauge track.

Of course, this meant that any locomotive the manufacturer chose
would have to be scaled-up.  While there were quite a few cog line
operations to pick from, Fleischmann took the most universal approach. 
They planned for fictional-generic unit with a good variety of paint liveries
in hopes of broadening appeal. Anyone who wanted those extra track
levels on their model railway would have to buy into the fantasy. 

To date, the resulting locomotive has been offered in a variety of paint
schemes —  Zugspitzbahn (blue and white, Edelweiss), Swiss Railways
(red and white),  old Bahnstrecke (Munich-to-Garmisch-Partenkirchen,
green with yellow trim),  and a solid blue unit which sports what appears
to be a Bavarian checkered-crest in white (as seen on KPEV and
Zugspitzbahn liveries). The latter loco was offered as a train set with
several gravel hopper wagons. There was also a DRG/Third Reich
design in white and gray.

What the Fleischmann designers cooked-up appears to be of 1925-30
vintage, and strongly suggests several Bavarian prototypes as its inspiration.
The body reflects a mix of the small Zugspitzbahn blue box-cab loco and the
Bavarian Railway’s E70 variants (EG 503-505 series), later to be classified
EP3, with some repositioning of doors, windows, and machinery spaces.

The six jack-shaft driver-wheels of the new cog locomotive would partially
reflective the E70’s running gear, though they would be enlarged as per the
E36 prototype of WW1 years.  The wheels grew bigger still on the E32 from
the mid-1920s.  From a model manufacturer’s standpoint, the E32, with its
large six-wheel jack-shaft configuration, probably suggested itself as the best
candidate for the running gear, as it was already in the Fleischmann catalog,
when their cog railway locomotive appeared.

In 2015, Fleischmann introduction the E69 steeple-cab electric in both
Edelweiss, Swiss, DB-green, and DB-red liveries.  While the E69 was
never a cog railway engine, its lines suggest a steeple cab engine of
slightly reduced profile, once in service with the Zugspitzbahn.  The E-69
also saw use on the Bavarian short line from Munich, which connects to
the Zugspitzbahn (via a short spur to Murnau-Garmisch).

In all, it was a fantasy design with some intelligence behind it.

« Last Edit: July 31, 2019, 11:47:17 AM by bbaldwin7, Reason: Adding 2nd of two photos to forum. »

Offline Railwaygun

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Re: European N gauge goofs
« Reply #33 on: July 31, 2019, 10:25:56 AM »
No sign of any bBaldwin photos in the gallery!



If you PM  me, i can arrange an email exchange and I will post the pics
« Last Edit: July 31, 2019, 12:48:12 PM by Railwaygun »
This has been a public service announcement
It may contain alternative facts

Caveat lector

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Online ntpntpntp

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Re: European N gauge goofs
« Reply #34 on: July 31, 2019, 10:32:55 AM »
NOTE: Missing Illustrations -- 2 pictures, showing 5 locomotives -- failed to upload to this forum. They are in "the gallery" for this date, and under my name  -- bbaldwin7.

Should be easy to fix, and easiest with two browser tabs open:
1) edit your post in on tab
2) bring up the gallery image in the other tab, and copy the "BB Code"
3) paste the BB code into your main post where you want the image to appear.
4) Preview the post to make sure all is ok
5) Save the post.


Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!

Offline Railwaygun

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Re: European N gauge goofs
« Reply #35 on: July 31, 2019, 02:00:07 PM »




This has been a public service announcement
It may contain alternative facts

Caveat lector

The largest Railwaygun, Armoured Train & Military Rail group in the world!
https://groups.io/g/railwaygun/topics

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10mm / N armour Threads
https://www.10mm-wargaming.com/

Motto: Semper ubi, sub ubi

Offline Railwaygun

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Re: European N gauge goofs
« Reply #36 on: July 31, 2019, 02:12:26 PM »
I have found you on the Random photos gallery so you do exist!

Your pic is 4mb - perhaps Tank has changed the limits? There has been some discussion

@tank


Select the picture, and then copy the BB code below it and paste it into the message, as above

Please delete your pics so that we can save some disc space!
« Last Edit: July 31, 2019, 02:19:02 PM by Railwaygun »
This has been a public service announcement
It may contain alternative facts

Caveat lector

The largest Railwaygun, Armoured Train & Military Rail group in the world!
https://groups.io/g/railwaygun/topics

My Military Rail Pinterest area
https://uk.pinterest.com/NDRobotnik/

10mm / N armour Threads
https://www.10mm-wargaming.com/

Motto: Semper ubi, sub ubi

Offline Railwaygun

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Re: European N gauge goofs
« Reply #37 on: July 31, 2019, 04:24:55 PM »
The US army emulated a WW2 project to put a K5 onto 2 panther chassis! ( picture to follow)



They also added atomic shells.

I gather the US version was a beast to manoeuvre ,!

« Last Edit: July 31, 2019, 04:39:53 PM by Railwaygun »
This has been a public service announcement
It may contain alternative facts

Caveat lector

The largest Railwaygun, Armoured Train & Military Rail group in the world!
https://groups.io/g/railwaygun/topics

My Military Rail Pinterest area
https://uk.pinterest.com/NDRobotnik/

10mm / N armour Threads
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Motto: Semper ubi, sub ubi

Offline bbaldwin7

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Re: European N gauge goofs
« Reply #38 on: August 01, 2019, 05:36:23 AM »
The US army emulated a WW2 project to put a K5 onto 2 Tiger chassis! ( picture to follow)



They also added atomic shells.

I gather the US version was a beast to manoeuvre ,!



My elderly veteran friend said it was very difficult to maneuver through muddy hillside roads, close to the Korean Front.  That was ultimately why the cannons were pulled out. There were six pieces in his 900 man artillery battalion.  Keeping 15 kiloton nuclear shells in harm's way, just 20 or so miles from the front, represented too much risk of capture.

By 1964, the US Army had developed 205 mm nuclear artillery that was, relative to size, just as powerful.  Later still, they perfected 105 lb. nuclear shells for cannons that amounted to standard-tow artillery pieces.  All shells for these weapons were destroyed by 2004.  Surface to surface missile delivery had rendered the large cannon concept obsolete by 1958.  I believe nine of the twenty 11-inch pieces are preserved as exhibits throughout the US, though most have lost their tractors. 

Weighing only 78 metric tons (less tractors), with a collapsing barrel mount and incorporating its own turntable, the US design offered great advantages in flexibility over the K5E rail gun.  Its two prime movers were a third of the weight of a Tiger tank chassis, which hardly would have offered a practical means of movement any distance from the railhead.

All considered, it was less than half the weight of the German K5, and claimed a much lower profile.  The barrel was not as long or heavy and this cut down on the extreme range of the "Atomic Annie" relative to "Anzio Annie".  The former was designed for a service range of only 20 miles, with detonation of air burst shells at an altitude of 525 feet.  In the 1953 Frenchman's Flat test, the target burst was only 6.25 miles away.  At Anzio, the K5 lobbed maximum-elevation shots to a distance of 33 miles. If the projectile fell within a 300-meter circle, it was considered on-target.





« Last Edit: December 11, 2019, 11:57:30 PM by Railwaygun »

Offline dickrowland

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Re: European N gauge goofs
« Reply #39 on: December 11, 2019, 07:06:29 PM »
In N Bahn Magazin 3/2019 there is a reference to

The E 2015 Luxembourg - Westerland on the Lahn Valley Railway with a 216 and behind it two SNCF UIC-Y, in green/beton livery, in the last year of this train's traditional run in 1979. This would then of course also be valid for the Moselbahn, although probably not with the 216.

 In 1972 the run had been extended to Luxembourg, thus exceeding the 1,000 km mark. Three SNCF UIC-Y wagons (A9u, B10u, B5Dd2) were now also partly in the service of the CFL.

« Last Edit: December 11, 2019, 07:34:06 PM by dickrowland »

Online swisstrains

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Re: European N gauge goofs
« Reply #40 on: January 30, 2020, 09:12:37 PM »
Do we have any Swiss Postauto experts on the forum? I'm not sure if this is an N Gauge goof or not.
This Setra S431 DT is one of the latest offerings from Lemke Minis but I can't find any evidence of them actually being operated by Swiss Postauto. I don't usually buy models in fantasy liveries but I really liked this one. ::)
John

Offline Globibahn

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Re: European N gauge goofs
« Reply #41 on: January 30, 2020, 09:16:16 PM »
Do we have any Swiss Postauto experts on the forum?

Here's the fleet vehicle list.... :hmmm:

https://www.postauto.ch/en/search/vehicle-fleet

It mentions a double decker then proceeds to not show one! :smiley-laughing:

from minibus and articulated bus to the comfortable double-decker.

Ammended -
Hang on, found similar, but does not mention Setra!
https://www.postauto.ch/en/vehicle-double-decker-postbus
« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 09:22:21 PM by Globibahn »

Online swisstrains

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Re: European N gauge goofs
« Reply #42 on: January 31, 2020, 09:36:51 AM »
Thanks Matt. These are the double-deckers that I found also and as you say no mention of Setra.
I have seen double-deckers in St.Gallen but they were the British built Alexander Dennis ones.
The Setra 431 design is older than it looks so perhaps Postauto did have some in their fleet at some stage but not now.
John

Offline daffy

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Re: European N gauge goofs
« Reply #43 on: January 31, 2020, 12:54:09 PM »
Odd that i’m just about to order one of these today.

I see PostAuto say they had 211 Setra vehicles in their fleet as at 2015 (seem to be the latest figures they show online) and also that the total number of double deckers in their fleet is 24. But as you found Matt, no mention that any of those are Setra.

I can find d/decker pics online for the Dennis Enviro 500’s, Van Hool, and also a  Neoplan N1122/3 C Skyliner in use in Post Auto colours. The latter has a similar look to the Setra model and the pic i’m looking at is dated 2017, and sited in Chur.

That said, I’ll still go ahead with an order cos they look good anyway. :D And I did find a yellow Setra 431 DT real version pic, but sadly the vehicle is not identified either by the photo taker, or with any applied livery:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=postauto+setra+doppelstock&client=safari&hl=en-gb&prmd=nisv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjCtfCS763nAhXkuXEKHeEfBlcQ_AUoAnoECA0QAg&biw=1024&bih=666#imgrc=7y9zeE67n3dMmM

Post script:
DM Toys give the following detail against this model, but sadly it doesn’t say whether they were actually used by PostAuto. The detail confirms what you said about the age of these John ( @swisstrains  ) so maybe they were used at one time.
Quote
MINIS SETRA S 431 DT PTT Schweizer Post

The S 431 DT is a double-decker touring coach from the Setra brand, which has been manufactured by Evobus since 2002. It is the only double-deck model of the Rheie TopClass 400. In 2013 there was oneModel maintenance, in which the vehicle was mainly technically revised and a Euro 6 engine was introduced. A new cockpit was also introduced. Daimler announced a total of 2,500 vehicles delivered by June 2015. The vehicle was built at the Setra plant in Neu-Ulm, a Setra S431 DT costs around 470,000 euros depending on the equipment.

The S431 DT also gained importance particularly due to the rapidly growing long-distance bus business.

length: 89.6mm

Perhaps the Swiss Railways Society Publication ‘Swiss Postbuses’ by Martin Fisher, recently revised and expanded, may shed some light. I may pick up. acopy some day.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2020, 01:52:12 PM by daffy, Reason: additional info »
Mike

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Online swisstrains

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Re: European N gauge goofs
« Reply #44 on: January 31, 2020, 06:56:22 PM »
………………………………….

Perhaps the Swiss Railways Society Publication ‘Swiss Postbuses’ by Martin Fisher, recently revised and expanded, may shed some light. I may pick up. acopy some day.

I have a copy Mike. It's a great book but no mention of the Setra S431 DT. :no:
John

 

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