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Author Topic: Dapol 57xx Pannier = Puzzled newb  (Read 4810 times)

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Offline silly moo

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Re: Dapol 57xx Pannier = Puzzled newb
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2014, 04:17:29 PM »
I had similar problems when I first started out, it should be possible to run any make of loco on any make and radius of track but it isn't. I had such problems with Atlas track and Farish locos that I nearly gave up N gauge altogether!

After a lot of gnashing of teeth and swearing I changed all my track for Peco. A friend of mine has always used Fleischmann track but with larger radius curves. I have heard that Fleischmann points can be problematical with British outline stock too.

All this is very frustrating and costly for beginners so you have my sympathies.

Welcome to the forum and I hope this doesn't put you off N gauge.

 :welcomesign:


Offline Dr Al

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Re: Dapol 57xx Pannier = Puzzled newb
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2014, 04:38:48 PM »
I have heard that Fleischmann points can be problematical with British outline stock too.

Fleischmann have had mostly for a long time very coarse wheel standards as compared recent British outline stock - it's therefore not surprising that there are compatability issues.

Even running on Peco track, which is designed for maximum compatability, I found on the Fleischmann 0-4-0 I had to turn the wheel flanges down to stop it getting beached on Peco turnouts.

Cheers,
Alan
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Offline DonH

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Re: Dapol 57xx Pannier = Puzzled newb
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2014, 07:49:06 PM »


















No, the track is not fixed, and I have already done what you suggested, and that is how I got to the point of discovering last night that the whole thing ran fine anticlockwise, both with and without wagons, pulling of pushing.

It did reveal when running anti clock wise that curves and straights can induce a derail but after a period of about 15 minutes or more, and mostly that happens when pushing stock, but has only once happened while pulling. It happens at multiple locations.

There is a more pronounced thud/click at curve joints on the smaller radius curves than on the larger ones.

The track is all brand new (4-6 weeks at most). The previously fine track was sourced from a German model shop. Faults have only been noted since introducing the first radius curves, from a well known major UK retailer via Amazon. They do appear to have a lightly different colour for the track bed and show slightly less crisp detail in it too. That batch are all a bit harder to connect together. They are harder to align and also more resistant to being closed together. Not really sure what to conclude about those issues. They do seem to connect cleanly in the end, just require a firmer push. I use a metal straight edge where possible to ensure all track is laid straight and clean shape wise.

I'm not able to see how to disassemble the wagons to add weight as it feels like that could help in my view. There are two tiny screws in the bottom of the unit, one at each end, and a central hole with one or two small objects at the bottom of it, which even using a 4 inch magnifying glass I can not resolve. If they are indeed screws too then I have no idea where one could even source a screwdriver that small; it would have to be significantly smaller than a triple zero posi type, and that is already very small indeed. :hmmm:

I shall try and rig up some sort of extreme macro lens, but I don't know if there is enough light until next summer for that to be effective. It's a bit frustrating in all  truth. ::)
[/quote]

I wouldn't give up yet, do some more running in in both directions things may settle after a while (I have found some of my bigger steamers have taken some time to settle in on my 11.1 inch radius kato track, once they have settled in they have no problems taking those curves at full speed). I have seen posts on this forum where a member has run various British locos on 6 and 7.5 inch kato track.
Just a thought.

Don

Offline Hailstone

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Re: Dapol 57xx Pannier = Puzzled newb
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2014, 09:05:31 PM »
I would imagine the locos that run around such tight curves are VERY short wheelbase such as a Minitrix dock tank or a Farish class 03 or04 - I would not expect a Dapol pannier to negotiate a curve of less than 9 inches, which is Pecos set track minimum.

Offline Ancient Hermit

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Re: Dapol 57xx Pannier = Puzzled newb
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2014, 06:49:08 PM »
If I used Peco ST-12 and ST15, along with ST5 and ST6 points, would I be reasonable in expecting the Pannier to be fine?

I may later want to go for a Dapol Class 22, and I am wondering if that being two short wheelbase trains chasing each other then that might be ok too?

I've tested the pannier on larger radius (Fleishmann 9125s) now, and that has run for an hour in each direction with no issues, and that is broadly the same as using the ST12s (228mm), the ST15s (263.5mm) being larger still.

If those Peco track parts were to prove ok, then I could just fit a semi decent track in the space I have available. That feels like a step forward. :)

If that looks like a plan, then I may go ahead and order 8 of each of the Peco ST12s and ST15s.

I hate ballasting, but it looks like I am going to be stuck with doing it.  ::)
« Last Edit: December 14, 2014, 06:50:26 PM by Ancient Hermit, Reason: two thoughts one set of words »
Cheers,
Ian
Using 100% Kato Unitrack, Kato DC controller, Dapol locos and rolling stock, so far.

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Dapol 57xx Pannier = Puzzled newb
« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2014, 08:39:53 PM »
The ST5/6 set track points are 9" radius and I can't see you having any issues with either the pannier or the class 22 (my class 22 runs round 9" curves with no problems).

BUT - with the ST5/6 being insulfrog points you might experience the pannier stalling on them. :uneasy:

Offline Ancient Hermit

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Re: Dapol 57xx Pannier = Puzzled newb
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2014, 09:55:49 PM »
BUT - with the ST5/6 being insulfrog points you might experience the pannier stalling on them. :uneasy:

Thanks so much NPN;

Might it also be that the Class 22 would not suffer in that way? And that in the main the pannier is the most prone of the two?

If so then that might change my preferred order of execution for the few (more or less firm) plans that I have made.

Interesting  :hmmm:
Cheers,
Ian
Using 100% Kato Unitrack, Kato DC controller, Dapol locos and rolling stock, so far.

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Dapol 57xx Pannier = Puzzled newb
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2014, 10:21:38 AM »
I wouldn't have thought you'd have stalling issues with the class 22 but the pannier will certainly be more prone to it. I don't use insulfrog points and haven't got the pannier you refer to, but I have had insulfrogs in the past, I do have small 0-6-0 tank locos and I have the class 22 so have some experience with the stalling issue.
Maybe someone with insulfrog points and the Dapol pannier can post their experiences :hmmm:

Offline Hailstone

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Re: Dapol 57xx Pannier = Puzzled newb
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2014, 04:13:58 PM »
I have 7 Dapol pannier tanks and can confirm that all of them went through the one set track point and then directly onto the only 9 inch radius curve that I have on my layout in both directions with no problems. similarly my 3 class 22's were tested in the same way again without incident, the only thing I would suggest is that speeds round such curves and through set track points should be kept down.

Regards,

Alex

Offline Ancient Hermit

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Re: Dapol 57xx Pannier = Puzzled newb
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2014, 04:19:49 PM »
I have 7 Dapol pannier tanks and can confirm that all of them went through the one set track point and then directly onto the only 9 inch radius curve that I have on my layout in both directions with no problems. similarly my 3 class 22's were tested in the same way again without incident, the only thing I would suggest is that speeds round such curves and through set track points should be kept down.

Regards,

Alex

Many thanks indeed for that, it's good to know it can work!

I may be new to this but I am already a fan of the slowest speed any given controller will allow me to have!  :) That is just as well given my limited space!  ;)
Cheers,
Ian
Using 100% Kato Unitrack, Kato DC controller, Dapol locos and rolling stock, so far.

Offline Ancient Hermit

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Re: Dapol 57xx Pannier = Puzzled newb
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2015, 12:16:17 PM »
A bit of an update:

I have just bought a class 22 and what a difference it makes! Runs on both first and second radius Fleischmann piccolo.

Might be that I  consider some points next and see how that turns out, however I do feel fairly confident the class 22 will probably run on them without issues too.

It is possible that I could usefully try some Peco set track too I think. Slightly larger radius as fas as I understand. I sort of fancy a class 52 later and that would need a little more room I guess.
Cheers,
Ian
Using 100% Kato Unitrack, Kato DC controller, Dapol locos and rolling stock, so far.

Online port perran

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Re: Dapol 57xx Pannier = Puzzled newb
« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2015, 12:29:57 PM »
I have 3 of the panniers and a Class 22 and I have several ST5 and 6 Insulfrog points.
Class 22 has absolutely no issues but the panniers can stall at VERY slow speeds. I think the key to Insulfrog points is keeping them clean, if I keep mine clean, the panniers don't stall.
However, my 14XX does !
If it looks right then it most probably is right.


 

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