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Author Topic: Dapol Class 142 'Pacer'  (Read 75072 times)

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Offline Pengi

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Re: Dapol Class 142 'Pacer'
« Reply #30 on: October 17, 2012, 07:27:33 PM »
I'm not saying the ride was bad but I always ensured I had an empty stomach before travelling on one.





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Offline EtchedPixels

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Re: Dapol Class 142 'Pacer'
« Reply #31 on: October 17, 2012, 09:23:54 PM »
The 121/122s ride pretty well. Not as nicely as the modern stock but nothing like the 142 vomit comets.

I checked not long ago in fact going to Cardiff Bay.
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Offline Sprintex

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Re: Dapol Class 142 'Pacer'
« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2012, 10:23:25 AM »
I'm not saying the ride was bad but I always ensured I had an empty stomach before travelling on one.

That's exactly what one of the managers of First North Western advised when he was interviewed on an episode of Trainspotting ;D


Paul

Offline Les1952

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Re: Dapol Class 142 'Pacer'
« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2012, 11:22:13 AM »
Getting them to bounce shouldn't be too difficult.  Enough people complain about the flangeway on Peco points causing stock to bounce about as it passes over.....

Perhaps a case of making a virtue out of a design compromise?

Just a thought
Les

Offline dr deltic

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Re: Dapol Class 142 'Pacer'
« Reply #34 on: October 19, 2012, 09:44:01 PM »
love or hate them, 28 years on they are still with us!!

And i want at least 3 if the man who estimates orders at Dapol is watching but please can we have GMPTE Orange and brown!!!

Offline bees

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Re: Dapol Class 142 'Pacer'
« Reply #35 on: October 20, 2012, 11:04:42 AM »
Well there's a surprise! Another year before it's released, i'm sure! Probably be Warley!!!  hahaha
Dapol, as usual, to busy competing with Bachmann, bringing out the same class, A4 the latest!!!
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Offline Ollie3440

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Re: Dapol Class 142 'Pacer'
« Reply #36 on: October 20, 2012, 02:46:22 PM »
Well there's a surprise! Another year before it's released, i'm sure! Probably be Warley!!!  hahaha
Dapol, as usual, to busy competing with Bachmann, bringing out the same class, A4 the latest!!!

Without wanting to drag the thread off topic... Are you saying you'd rather we didn't have the new A4 and were still stuck with the Farish one?

Back to the Pacer, i've had a pair of Northern Units on order for a while now and if the continuing delays mean an improved models then i have no complaints.

Ollie
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Offline Matthew-peter

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Re: Dapol Class 142 'Pacer'
« Reply #37 on: October 20, 2012, 04:23:48 PM »

Back to the Pacer, i've had a pair of Northern Units on order for a while now and if the continuing delays mean an improved models then i have no complaints.

Ollie

If they improve it too much it wont be realistic  :laugh: haha, all jokes aside however Im willing to wait as long as it takes meself, its a unit I personally am very fond of and would really like to see on my layout.
OK who took my cake?

Offline Donkey

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Re: Dapol Class 142 'Pacer'
« Reply #38 on: October 20, 2012, 11:42:06 PM »
Well there's a surprise! Another year before it's released, i'm sure! Probably be Warley!!!  hahaha
Dapol, as usual, to busy competing with Bachmann, bringing out the same class, A4 the latest!!!

Without wanting to drag the thread off topic... Are you saying you'd rather we didn't have the new A4 and were still stuck with the Farish one?

Back to the Pacer, i've had a pair of Northern Units on order for a while now and if the continuing delays mean an improved models then i have no complaints.

Ollie

Could not agree more Ollie  :thumbsup:

Marty

Offline Les1952

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Re: Dapol Class 142 'Pacer'
« Reply #39 on: October 23, 2012, 08:55:24 PM »
at the Dapol Open Day someone in our tour group asked Dave about lengthening time to get stuff to market.  One problem is that although Dapol have increased their business with the factory in China there has been no corresponding increase in factory capacity, and this includes on the tooling machines.

The number three was mentioned in this respect, and that it takes the best end of a month to get an item tooled from CAD on each machine.  Hence the bottleneck.

Dave also mentioned that each revision to the tooling is charged for as an extra tooling- which makes them VERY expensive.  If there are any issues with the CAD not being exactly right they have to be corrected before tooling.   Other models have nothing at all to do with this part of the process.

All the very best
Les

Offline Anthony Lloyd

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Re: Dapol Class 142 'Pacer'
« Reply #40 on: October 23, 2012, 11:36:20 PM »
Well there's a surprise! Another year before it's released, i'm sure! Probably be Warley!!!  hahaha
Dapol, as usual, to busy competing with Bachmann, bringing out the same class, A4 the latest!!!

If there are any issues with the CAD not being exactly right they have to be corrected before tooling.
But surely this is the point at which using UK based 3D printing is a sensible option for testing the CAD before sending for what is a very expensive tooling to be created.

The Pacer covers almost 30 years of British railways, in the North, South West and Wales in as many liveries as there have been units so why continue to delay it. Dapol announce "surprise" items, often with new tooling, while those of us who have placed pre-orders for the pacer are left to wait it out. While I am not complaining about the Dapol A4 (although I don't personally own one), I suspect that on the list (so to speak) it would have been better released next year, with it being the anniversary of the speed run and all that.

At the same time, I suspect the problems with the Pacer are still more technical that just awaiting a space at the factory. Getting the prototypical bounce is easy ... slightly oval wheels ;-) ... the problem I think is the getting the drive to the single axle(s) and still collecting power unless they are fixed formation like Hornby did the OO one... that and still having enough play in the wheels to allow it to actually go round a corner less than a (probably) 15 inch radius curve - unfortunately we don't all have huge exhibition size layouts or end to end shelf layouts.

Tony

Offline EtchedPixels

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Re: Dapol Class 142 'Pacer'
« Reply #41 on: October 24, 2012, 12:41:05 AM »
But surely this is the point at which using UK based 3D printing is a sensible option for testing the CAD before sending for what is a very expensive tooling to be created.

It's a bit more complicated than that

- If you outsource your production to China then the Chinese tend to force you to do it their way and also to ensure they keep hold of the CAD and tooling (and people have had horrendous problems trying to get hold of tools they notionally own when they try to move them).

- Some of your tooling problems are in material flow, shrinkage, heat and so forth. Your CAD may be fine in terms of portraying the model but it does not mean a tool cut to it will actually work with plastic. 3D print can't really test that and it's an art which is 50% science 50% magic at best.

I am waiting with interest for the day when 3D print is good enough finish and strong enough to use for RTR products - either self coloured or sprayed and tampo printed. It's going to turn the industry on its head. Bachmann are owned by a plastics company so it will be most "interesting" for them while Dapol have in UK factory for some stuff already.

But your assumptions are right in most industries where the manufacturers are not low volume, minor interest bit players in a contract market. In that world a lot of 3D printing is now done before any tooling is produced, often as part of the design with cycles of design and rethinking that simply wouldn't be viable long ago.

Alan
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Offline Les1952

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Re: Dapol Class 142 'Pacer'
« Reply #42 on: October 24, 2012, 02:34:31 PM »
[
If there are any issues with the CAD not being exactly right they have to be corrected before tooling.
But surely this is the point at which using UK based 3D printing is a sensible option for testing the CAD before sending for what is a very expensive tooling to be created.
Tony

I was very surprised at the detail on the CAD that Dave displayed- it wasn't just the outside but ALL of the internals were there in layers.  The CAD includes the motor, gears, and wheels etc, which are all coded into the final version (don't ask me how).  The tooling machines incorporate computers that break that CAD down into achievable sub-assemblies and make the tools to actually achieve these.  The processing power needed for this I would imagine to be a long way beyond that needed to make single 3D printed components- no matter how complex the components themselves.

Dave demonstrated using the CAD of the Class 22 to move the PCB that the DCC chip plugs into by a couple of millimetres to give a little more finger room. 

All the very best
Les

Offline EtchedPixels

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Re: Dapol Class 142 'Pacer'
« Reply #43 on: October 25, 2012, 04:57:32 PM »
and wheels etc, which are all coded into the final version (don't ask me how).  The tooling machines incorporate computers that break that CAD down into achievable sub-assemblies and make the tools to actually achieve these.  The processing power needed for this I would imagine to be a long way beyond that needed to make single 3D printed components- no matter how complex the components themselves.

Dave demonstrated using the CAD of the Class 22 to move the PCB that the DCC chip plugs into by a couple of millimetres to give a little more finger room. 

Thats routine with any modern CAD tools. even the pretty basic stuff. Its the kind of thing any reasonable home PC can run these days without trying - way less compute intensive than the physics in many of the games !
"Knowledge has no value or use for the solitary owner: to be enjoyed it must be communicated" -- Charles Pratt, 1st Earl Camden

Offline B757-236GT

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Re: Dapol Class 142 'Pacer'
« Reply #44 on: February 07, 2013, 02:56:09 PM »
Is there any late updates on this project as they could be useful.
Richard
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