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Author Topic: Spares and repair discoveries  (Read 254076 times)

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Online Snowwolflair

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Re: Spares and repair discoveries
« Reply #1020 on: November 08, 2016, 11:31:05 AM »
That's helpful

Blow up does not show any lining.




On the contrary - it clearly shows the horizontal lining around the cabside number.

Cheers,
Alan


In both photos its a shadow of a painted over line but no wear or weathering is that consistent to remove all signs of a white line, especially as the number is so clean.

Offline Dr Al

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Re: Spares and repair discoveries
« Reply #1021 on: November 08, 2016, 11:38:01 AM »
Sorry, but I disagree - if you look at pictures of the steam age the numbers stand out, even on filthy locos (e.g. this absolutely filthy B1 https://www.flickr.com/photos/tibshelf/15720454664/ ), and looking above and below clearly shows lining.

The second picture I posted is definitive - taken just before the first (summer 1961, the inconclusive one being Sept 1961). It even shows the faded electrification warning flashes on the tender, still with early crest.

I suspect the reason this loco remained in early crest so long is that the paintwork was very well maintained in  the early/mid 1950s as this loco was a normal star performer on the southern's "Golden Arrow" and was reputedly always turned out immaculately for this. In lined green, with golden arrow arrows and headboard.

Cheers,
Alan
« Last Edit: November 08, 2016, 11:40:24 AM by Dr Al »
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.” – Dr. Carl Sagan

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Re: Spares and repair discoveries
« Reply #1022 on: November 08, 2016, 11:44:42 AM »
Lined... Green...  with an out of date logo...   could be in which case it is irrelevant to this conversation, which is about unlined black. 

Offline Dr Al

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Re: Spares and repair discoveries
« Reply #1023 on: November 08, 2016, 12:04:58 PM »
Lined... Green...  with an out of date logo...   could be in which case it is irrelevant to this conversation, which is about unlined black.


Well not really - the photo was posted as evidence of black livery on this loco, and I don't believe this was the case.

Even the official BR publicity photo when it was shiny and sparkling and new, in lined green  ;) , shows that the red and black express passenger lining does not jump out as all that clear. No wonder the photos then become misleading and interpretable in other ways when it's filthy.

http://www.davidheyscollection.com/userimages/00-0-a-n-johnson-BR-70004.jpg

There's simply no evidence this loco was ever black thereafter (other than from dirt staining toward the end). It's a useful exercise in showing the minefield of even using photos to guide modelling (I've been caught before when using indistinct pics!). Multiple photos are needed, 70004 again being a useful exercise as there are loads of definitive photos all through its life, both in southern days, Golden arrow and immaculate, right through to filthy LM days, close to her demise:
http://www.davidheyscollection.com/userimages/00-0-a-70004-L-Hanson-1769.jpg
http://www.colour-rail-prints.com/p/409/no-70004-iron-duke-chelsfield-great-britain-5089747.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/7a/b6/58/7ab658613c95c7e136ad1d6b7e161e87.jpg
http://www.time-capsules.co.uk/images/pf-time-capsules/2520.jpg
https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/7181463872/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/7281235282/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/tcs-pics/7189972314/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/alastairwood/5346454788/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/7281234288/

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.” – Dr. Carl Sagan

Offline Papyrus

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Re: Spares and repair discoveries
« Reply #1024 on: November 08, 2016, 12:08:37 PM »
I've dug out a 1975 book 'BR Standard Britannia Pacifics', edited by G Weekes. All the photos are monochrome with the exception of the front cover which shows 70014, looking black but probably just dirty. However, the first photo shows 70000 with the caption: "Completed early in January 1951, No. 70000 ran trials between Crewe and Carlisle, after a period of running-in, and then emerged from the paintshop in standard BR green livery..." which implies it was only black for a very short time.

Cheers,

Chris
"Outside of a dog, a book is probably man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."  Groucho Marx

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Re: Spares and repair discoveries
« Reply #1025 on: November 08, 2016, 12:19:50 PM »
Lined... Green...  with an out of date logo...   could be in which case it is irrelevant to this conversation, which is about unlined black.


Well not really - the photo was posted as evidence of black livery on this loco, and I don't believe this was the case.

Even the official BR publicity photo when it was shiny and sparkling and new, in lined green  ;) , shows that the red and black express passenger lining does not jump out as all that clear. No wonder the photos then become misleading and interpretable in other ways when it's filthy.

http://www.davidheyscollection.com/userimages/00-0-a-n-johnson-BR-70004.jpg

There's simply no evidence this loco was ever black thereafter (other than from dirt staining toward the end). It's a useful exercise in showing the minefield of even using photos to guide modelling (I've been caught before when using indistinct pics!). Multiple photos are needed, 70004 again being a useful exercise as there are loads of definitive photos all through its life, both in southern days, Golden arrow and immaculate, right through to filthy LM days, close to her demise:
http://www.davidheyscollection.com/userimages/00-0-a-70004-L-Hanson-1769.jpg
http://www.colour-rail-prints.com/p/409/no-70004-iron-duke-chelsfield-great-britain-5089747.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/7a/b6/58/7ab658613c95c7e136ad1d6b7e161e87.jpg
http://www.time-capsules.co.uk/images/pf-time-capsules/2520.jpg
https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/7181463872/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/7281235282/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/tcs-pics/7189972314/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/alastairwood/5346454788/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/7281234288/

Cheers,
Alan


Bit of an OTT response.

The photo was judged and aged by the logo.  If you are stating that this logo was used out of the normally accepted dates on Green livery locos I'm happy to go with that, which invalidates the photo for the purpose of this thread which was to identify Britannia locos in unlined black.

Offline Dr Al

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Re: Spares and repair discoveries
« Reply #1026 on: November 08, 2016, 12:59:45 PM »
The photo was judged and aged by the logo.  If you are stating that this logo was used out of the normally accepted dates on Green livery locos I'm happy to go with that, which invalidates the photo for the purpose of this thread which was to identify Britannia locos in unlined black.

Indeed - it's quite clear this loco survived with early crest well into 1961 from the multiple photos showing that. But 1963 it had late crest, so one can infer it gained this (or a tender swap) between Sept 1961 and 1963. Not OTT, but a useful exercise in the pitfalls of modelling from photos.

You're right to accept that the early crest therefore was not tightly bounded to the dates 1948-1956. There's loads of photo evidence showing other locos in the 1960s still with it - a five minute flickr pulls quite a few examples, and therefore I'm sure there are countless more:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/24041160@N02/7038197375/in/album-72157622423979643/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/24041160@N02/6061874800/in/album-72157622424314345/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/24041160@N02/6735915675/in/album-72157629366621902/

Ofter lesser types, but no surprise as it's reasonable to assume they would only be changed at major overhaul/repaint, so presumably locos that were 'shopped' just prior to 1956 change were likely to retain the early crest for longer.

There are a few even more obscure examples of non-standard things in BR days, e.g. the Aspinall 0-6-0 saddle tank that got its BR number but retained LMS on its tanks, another that never got its BR number, but did get the LMS number changed to BR Gill Sans, keeping its LMS number right through 1960, as well as photos of at least 1 GWR pannier retaining 'GW' lettering well into BR days.

All fun ones for Ozy to do  ;)

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.” – Dr. Carl Sagan

Offline Ozymandias

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Re: Spares and repair discoveries
« Reply #1027 on: November 09, 2016, 06:39:26 AM »
Here's the finished Britannia:





Brilliant work as ever I might have to send you one of my poorly Minitrix Ivatt 2-6-0 to work your magic on :(


Always open to commissions, Paul - and I promise I wouldn't paint it apple green! ;)
"Look on my works, Ye Mighty, and despair!"

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Re: Spares and repair discoveries
« Reply #1028 on: November 09, 2016, 10:40:12 AM »
Here's the finished Britannia:





Brilliant work as ever I might have to send you one of my poorly Minitrix Ivatt 2-6-0 to work your magic on :(


Always open to commissions, Paul - and I promise I wouldn't paint it apple green! ;)


Only if you really  promise not to paint her GREEN?

Offline Hailstone

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Re: Spares and repair discoveries
« Reply #1029 on: November 09, 2016, 12:38:04 PM »
Only Britannia itself was painted plain black, and this was only for a short period whilst it was under initial testing. it was repainted into lined green before it's naming ceremony at Marylebone on 30th January 1951

Regards,

Alex

Offline Ozymandias

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Re: Spares and repair discoveries
« Reply #1030 on: November 09, 2016, 01:33:42 PM »
Here's the finished Britannia:





Brilliant work as ever I might have to send you one of my poorly Minitrix Ivatt 2-6-0 to work your magic on :(


Always open to commissions, Paul - and I promise I wouldn't paint it apple green! ;)


Only if you really  promise not to paint her GREEN?


I absolutely promise! :)
"Look on my works, Ye Mighty, and despair!"

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Re: Spares and repair discoveries
« Reply #1031 on: November 09, 2016, 01:48:51 PM »
Here's the finished Britannia:





Brilliant work as ever I might have to send you one of my poorly Minitrix Ivatt 2-6-0 to work your magic on :(


Always open to commissions, Paul - and I promise I wouldn't paint it apple green! ;)


Only if you really  promise not to paint her GREEN?


I absolutely promise! :)


Yep, not green, he'll do it brilliant yellow with orange lining.

Cheers MIKE
(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)


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Online Snowwolflair

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Re: Spares and repair discoveries
« Reply #1032 on: November 09, 2016, 01:51:16 PM »
Here's the finished Britannia:





Brilliant work as ever I might have to send you one of my poorly Minitrix Ivatt 2-6-0 to work your magic on :(


Always open to commissions, Paul - and I promise I wouldn't paint it apple green! ;)


Only if you really  promise not to paint her GREEN?


I absolutely promise! :)


Yep, not green, he'll do it brilliant yellow with orange lining.


Colas Rail, and a little model of a driver with sunglasses. 8)

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Re: Spares and repair discoveries
« Reply #1033 on: November 11, 2016, 10:57:32 AM »
Some updates from the workbench...

A pannier goes LT, the Patriot conversion, a B1, the E2 and E5, a Jube and the German bo-bo in varying states of restoration:







The former "Sir Nigel of the Broken Nose", now Mallard - quite proud of this one, one of the very few I'm going to keep for myself!






I bought these A4s and a Flying Scotsman off eBay - they're all in a very sorry state, but I think I can make at least three good. The silver A4's axles had been glued into position and were locked solid - it's going to take me a lot of patient chipping to get it all out!

I bought some replacement cranks for the Scotsman from Shapeways - they seem to work nicely, and Shapeways' customer service was excellent.









"Look on my works, Ye Mighty, and despair!"

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Re: Spares and repair discoveries
« Reply #1034 on: November 11, 2016, 11:50:38 AM »
You have far too many loco's, Im jealous

You need to have a look at my poorly Minitrix Ivatt

 

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