How bad, really, are Dapol and Farish

[mk1gtstu]

Stu

I'm honestly torn between the two sides of the argument. On the one hand I feel the points I've posted above are valid, yet on the other, I see your point about Poole Farish not being without its faults and you having 3/50 faulty locos (still a lot mind) and so I think I'm going to sit on the fence from now on, with an acceptance that there are valid arguments on both sides 

Still would like to see the stuff made in the UK though ... but hey ho, hum hum ... 

Yes I can see what your saying, there is good & bad on both sides I think 

cheers, Stu.

[Dr Al]

I think competition surely is the reason.

Which is where the N gauge market differs completely from others.

There simply isn't the size of market for direct competition, i.e. the same model from different manufacturers. We've seen this with the B1s, where the Farish one appeared to sell well, and the Dapol ones are still knocking about various retailers, and have been heavily discounted to shift them. equally, Bachmann scrapping plans for a 9F when Dapol produced one - they clearly believed there was just not room out there for two competing models, even if theirs is better.

The other difference is that these items are still at least partly hand made - unlike cars or large production items that folk cite, more hands on detail work is still required (and mechanising this would cost a lot) - look at the pics out there of Kader factory with many many folks assembling all our models. I'm sure if we had 1000 sets of black 5 pickups to assemble we might not get them all right.

This isn't an excuse, but just an observation that the means of manufacture and the market they serve are very different to many others.

Cheers,
Alan

[DCCDave]

I think you've hit the nail on the head with regards to accepting sub-standard items / making excuses for poor quality. We just wouldn't stand for it with other products. I think competition surely is the reason.

It's my view that not only with model locos but across consumer products of all kinds we British struggle to differentiate between 'cheap' and 'value for money'. I've worked in all kinds of sectors where 'cheap' wins, remember that old show called 'Never mind the quality feel the width'.

Do you remember British Leyland cars, which were generally a heap of .... and yet millions of them sold until something at a similar price point came along which were more reliable, better built and better equipped. Buyers in the UK had always had the option to buy more expensive cars (BMWs, Mercs and the like) but millions bought British because they were cheap and were good enough. Seems to me that the tenor of this thread is that us modellers are slowly arriving at the 'not good enough' view.

Like Dr Al, I think that if Dave Jones can deliver what he's promised then the others will have to follow suit or risk loosing market share. Dave has yet to deliver anything so we'll have to wait and see but at least he's openly recognised and is looking to address the problem. More power to his elbow!

Cheers
Dave

 

[mark100]

Not enough BR Blue stuff,

Dapol did class 86's in liveries that a lot people spat at? now they are being sold cheap everywhere.

Farish/Bachmann had a spate of doing 1 off liveries for a while, in how many years was the last decent BR blue 31 released? Sista Dora ?

But at least Lima decided to give it up with the king kong sized N Gauge locos.

Everyone is asking Gareth and Andrew for resprays for periods from 1960's to 1980's

Dapol have got it right with the westerns class 22s 56s etc

I saw a photo of a new farish 31 in magazine (railway modeller iI think) last December and it still is not out yet?

Kids ask for stuff for Xmas and have to be let down because it is not ready. It would be better for them to announce stuff a month before it hits the shelves and that way, no one gets let down or keep posting on forums about delays.

Mark

[DesertHound]

I think you've hit the nail on the head with regards to accepting sub-standard items / making excuses for poor quality. We just wouldn't stand for it with other products. I think competition surely is the reason.

It's my view that not only with model locos but across consumer products of all kinds we British struggle to differentiate between 'cheap' and 'value for money'. I've worked in all kinds of sectors where 'cheap' wins, remember that old show called 'Never mind the quality feel the width'.

Do you remember British Leyland cars, which were generally a heap of .... and yet millions of them sold until something at a similar price point came along which were more reliable, better built and better equipped. Buyers in the UK had always had the option to buy more expensive cars (BMWs, Mercs and the like) but millions bought British because they were cheap and were good enough. Seems to me that the tenor of this thread is that us modellers are slowly arriving at the 'not good enough' view.

Like Dr Al, I think that if Dave Jones can deliver what he's promised then the others will have to follow suit or risk loosing market share. Dave has yet to deliver anything so we'll have to wait and see but at least he's openly recognised and is looking to address the problem. More power to his elbow!

Cheers
Dave

Funny you should mention British Leyland Dave - that's exactly who I was thinking of when I went off on my diatribe about everything being "offshored". Sadly we need to up our game in so many areas. Whilst I'm unashamedly patriotic and like to buy home grown products, they at least have to do what they said they'd do on the tin ... sadly history is littered with examples of the opposite!

Dan

[DesertHound]

Kids ask for stuff for Xmas and have to be let down because it is not ready. It would be better for them to announce stuff a month before it hits the shelves and that way, no one gets let down or keep posting on forums about delays.

Mark

Mark

I think you mean dads keep asking for stuff and have to be let down ... 

[EtchedPixels]

have to do what they said they'd do on the tin ... sadly history is littered with examples of the opposite!

Dan

We may have had British Leyland ("all the parts falling off this car are of the finest British manufacture") but we also built Landrovers: Union Mills are British and in the finest Landrover tradition IMHO. Simple, reliable, solid.



Alan

[DesertHound]

We still do build Land Rovers Alan, unfortunately we don't own the means of production anymore though.

Must admit though, they're doing pretty well these days, even if they are now in foreign hands.

Dan

[Dave95979]

this may be a stupid question but how do you tell if you are byeing a pool loco rather than the newer ones ? i know i am unhappy with my steamers but my deltic and 04 shunter i cant fault at all well the shunter does wobble a bit but i can live with that as it spends all the time moving realy slowly

[Dr Al]

this may be a stupid question but how do you tell if you are byeing a pool loco rather than the newer ones ?

Poole locos have silver deep flanged wheels, come in card boxes.

Newer locos can still be of the Poole design, but will come in Bachmann Farish plastic boxes with card outers. They have finer profile wheels and better quality printing and finishing, but otherwise the chassis are essentially the same for the steam, the diesels used interim improved chassis design with a different motor. Any model available in Poole days also came out from Bachmann in this way, apart from the LMS 4P and 101 DMU as both had tooling close to life expired.

HTH,
Alan

[silly moo]

Poole locos have the words 'Made in Britain' printed on the chassis baseplate, Bachmann Farish have the words 'Made in China' printed on the baseplate. The newer locos have chemically darkened wheels and the newest ones are DCC ready.

If you are buying off eBay it's best to check with the seller as to which type he is selling.

[Dr Al]

Poole locos have the words 'Made in Britain' printed on the chassis baseplate, Bachmann Farish have the words 'Made in China' printed on the baseplate.

As long as they haven't had parts swapped over.... 

Cheers,
Alan

[mark100]

Kids ask for stuff for Xmas and have to be let down because it is not ready. It would be better for them to announce stuff a month before it hits the shelves and that way, no one gets let down or keep posting on forums about delays.

Mark

Mark

I think you mean dads keep asking for stuff and have to be let down ... 

I think my Wife would Divorce me if I started up another hobby, Its expensive as it is with our Son wanting everything he sees on here and eBay and our Daughters are worse for wanting stuff, although they have not asked for railway items yet! We have a Dapol Class 50 on order from Hattons and are hoping we get this before Xmas otherwise we will have to get him something else and the class 50 will then become a birthday present.

Why announce stuff then make people wait for over a year for it to arrive.

If it is to pre-warn the rival company that you are releasing a specific item then its stupid, it would be better if Dapol and Farish did release the same loco classes as long as they looked identical, (the class 66s from both companies look different because of the way the chassis is housed) but it would give more options on running numbers and enable those who wanted a large fleet to build one up quicker.

It would also be better if nothing was announced until it was ready for sale, then they could put up on the website "COMING NEXT MONTH" it would prevent a lot of stress for a lot of people on here, who don't have the patience to wait for things and who get angry at the slightest thing.

  Mark

[DesertHound]

Mark

Agree with you. Unfortunately I think it's to do with marketing ... put it out there, build anticipation, pent up the demand and then bring it to market. I don't follow the new releases but I "feel your pain brother!"

Dave95979, as to your question re Poole (UK) vs Chinese production, it's not a silly question at all. You'll get to know the models and their differences over time (if you're really into Farish n) and I think the posts you've received pretty much sum up what to look for.

One note if caution, however, is that some of the older (UK) models have had their wheels changed over to the Chinese wheels. Therefore you could be fooled into thinking it's a UK model when in fact it's a Chinese model. It's unlikely to be the other way around though (UK wheels on a Chinese chassis).

A few of the UK models at the very end had blackened wheels, but I think the numbers are insignificant in terms of you having to worry about it. I find the advice in the boxes (card vs square hard plastic) is a good starting point.

Poole locos have the words 'Made in Britain' printed on the chassis baseplate, Bachmann Farish have the words 'Made in China' printed on the baseplate.

I want to cry ...  :'(

[Dr Al]

A few of the UK models at the very end had blackened wheels, but I think the numbers are insignificant in terms of you having to worry about it. I find the advice in the boxes (card vs square hard plastic) is a good starting point.

These are highly distinct though, as they are the old Poole Pizza cutters that are blackened. These aren't the same as the later chinese production which had completely retooled wheels of different profile, steel axles instead of brass.

Incidentally, the blackened Poole ones are pretty rare on some locos, so worth holding onto if you're a collector.

Cheers,
Alan