New Server: Thank you for your patience. We moved to our new server. Everything should be back to normal EXCEPT for the Gallery. We will have that restored shortly and will make an announcement. If you see something that is not working please report it here: Server Upgrade.

!!

Not Registered?

Welcome!  Please register to view all of the new posts and forum boards - some of which are hidden to guests.  After registering and gaining 10 posts you will be able to sell and buy items on our N'porium.

If you have any problems registering, then please check your spam filter before emailing us.  Hotmail users seem to find their emails in the Junk folder.


Thanks for reading,
The NGF Staff.

Author Topic: New coupler development (was Coupling survey)  (Read 30347 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline talisman56

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 23209
  • Posts: 1291
  • Country: england
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Coupling survey
« Reply #45 on: June 13, 2014, 03:02:02 PM »

And not directly coupling-related, but the most popular area of modelling interest by a mile is steam/diesel transition era. So where are all those early 60s layouts?


One (still under (re-)development) described in the thread below: vvv

I have a small supply of Dapol conversion kits and working and dummy Dapol couplings which I was going to start converting my fleet with, but the hacking about that will be needed on the non-NEM stock has brought me to a pause at the moment. I will be very interested to see what you come up with that will be different and meet all the criteria that your survey reveals.

Yes I did answer it, and although not quite a ten-thumbed bodger, still want to retain some resale value in my stock...
My inspiration - never let a setback get you down...

My layout thread - Hambleside East: http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=18364.0
My workbench thread: http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=19037

Offline Karhedron

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 19444
  • Posts: 2250
  • Country: 00
    • Awards
Re: Coupling survey
« Reply #46 on: June 13, 2014, 03:03:54 PM »
I don't possess any Dapol stock, presumably they have the type of pockets required to make the delayed action work properly. But if Dapol couplers only work 100% reliably when fitted to Dapol products, they aren't as useful as we all hoped they would be.  I don't blame Dapol: the NEM standard seems to have assumed that Rapido would be the standard N gauge coupler for evermore, and Dapol have done the best they can with what they have to work with. (Although it would have helped a bit if the knuckle were smaller, so that the tongue could be closer to the vehicle centre line.)
I suppose a possibility is to remove the Farish NEM pockets and replace them with the Dapol ones (which they helpfully sell separately). I can confirm that the Dapol pocket does permit sideways movement. I guess it is not Dapol's fault if Farish have not followed the NEM standard.

If you prefer not to modify your stock then the other option is to scatter uncoupling magnets around your shunting yards. If you use the small rare earth magnets that I have used, it is not very expensive as they work out at pennies each when bought in bulk. Delayed action is not needed so much if you have magnets in convenient locations.
Well, that's just not good enough. Some fount of all knowledge you are!  :no:  ;)

Offline SmileyFace

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 42
    • Awards
Re: Coupling survey
« Reply #47 on: June 13, 2014, 04:08:55 PM »
I have to admit, I used the rare earth magnets to save money and avoid me having to dig up track and fit the Dapol magnets. I assumed that the rare earth ones would not be as good as they were smaller and not designed specifically for the task but perhaps they work better than the Dapol own-brand ones.  :-\

My other question is what stock are you using? My experiments have been Dapol couplers in Dapol stock. I have heard that some of the older Farish NEM pockets are a very tight fit which might impede the swing action of the coupler. Apparently their latest releases have fixed this issue and the NEM pocket is the correct size.
All the magnets work well for delayed uncoupling of Microtrains couplings but they are somewhat smaller than the Dapol couplings.

Stock is a mixture of Dapol and Farish. For example, my Dapol 67's couplings will definitely not move sideways over a track magnet and neither do my Dapol CargoWaggon couplings. My latest Farish DRS coach couplings are similarly very tight and only the knuckles will move.

I would dearly like to adopt Dapol couplings for ease of fitment but the lack of the delay feature makes me reluctant. Yes, you can use lots of magnets around the layout but if you always have to leave stock over the magnet then it has to be pushed well clear before it can be recoupled.

Offline Karhedron

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 19444
  • Posts: 2250
  • Country: 00
    • Awards
Re: Coupling survey
« Reply #48 on: June 13, 2014, 08:48:54 PM »
Even in Dapol pockets, you coupling arms do not swing?  :hmmm:

Probably a silly question but are you sure the couplings are pushed all the way into the pockets until they click? The pivot point needs to be seated in the small hole provided for the purposes. If it is not pushed all the way home, I can imagine that it might be too stiff to swing.

The reason I ask is that the arms swing on all my Dapol stock so it seems strange that they will not swing at all on yours.
Well, that's just not good enough. Some fount of all knowledge you are!  :no:  ;)

Offline BobB

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 27926
  • Posts: 513
  • Country: za
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Coupling survey
« Reply #49 on: June 13, 2014, 09:48:31 PM »
Given that almost every (or should that be every) British outline vehicle is currently supplied with a working coupling, perhaps we should be looking at the simplest replacement from what we have.

How about chopping off the coupling at the end of the shaft (using either saw or maybe just a very sharp knife).

The existing Dapol coupling could be modified to have a socket with a square hole, tapered internally to suit different manufacturers sizes and just a spot of glue inserting the magnetic coupler over the square shaft. I think we could all cope with that. Those who want close coupling can cut the shaft a bit shorter.

OK, still a bit large but quite a bit better than what we have.

How about it Dapol ?

Offline belstone

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 891
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Belstone blog
    • Awards
Re: Coupling survey
« Reply #50 on: June 13, 2014, 10:35:36 PM »
just a spot of glue

I'm not sure the plastic used in most Rapidos is very glue-friendly. But I like your thinking. Surprising that Dapol haven't yet made an EasiShunt with a Rapido T-shank.  Perhaps they're working on it.

Offline Chris in Prague

  • Trade Count: (+14)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 24400
  • Posts: 11426
  • Country: cz
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Coupling survey
« Reply #51 on: June 14, 2014, 06:32:00 AM »
77 responses now which is far more than I expected. I am deeply grateful to everyone who took the time to respond.  The pattern of answers hasn't changed much since the first 20, so I think I am safe to draw some conclusions. 

Yes, well-done to you and everyone who answered. 77 replies (and more, now?) is an excellent result and tells us that there is a lot of interest in the topic. Also, the fact that the pattern of answers hasn't changed much since the first 20 shows us that, from those who are interested enough to reply, it is reasonable to draw some conclusions.

I am watching this thread with great interest but still don't plan on changing my rolling stock's couplings as a priority.

Offline SmileyFace

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 42
    • Awards
Re: Coupling survey
« Reply #52 on: June 14, 2014, 11:42:09 AM »
Even in Dapol pockets, you coupling arms do not swing?  :hmmm:

Probably a silly question but are you sure the couplings are pushed all the way into the pockets until they click? The pivot point needs to be seated in the small hole provided for the purposes. If it is not pushed all the way home, I can imagine that it might be too stiff to swing.

The reason I ask is that the arms swing on all my Dapol stock so it seems strange that they will not swing at all on yours.
When pushed with a finger the Dapol coupling's arm will swing but not when under the control of a track magnet.

As the magnets are only 6.5mm wide (so as to clear the wheel flanges) the maximum swing in either direction, when everything is perfectly set up, is only ever going to be 3.25mm. This just doesn't seem to be  enough for both the knuckle to be fully deflected sideways and then for the arm to swing in addition to this. As your rare earth magnets are mounted close up to the rails maybe that's why yours are ok and swing both the knuckles and the arm, (they may also be stronger magnets too).

Thanks  for your interest anyway.
SF

Offline belstone

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 891
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Belstone blog
    • Awards
Re: Coupling survey
« Reply #53 on: June 14, 2014, 12:29:02 PM »
I had wondered whether very strong magnets mounted on the outer edge of the rails might work, with the tops a little above rail height. I don't have any suitable magnets to try.

Offline Newportnobby

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+63)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • N Gauge Society Number: 21962
  • Posts: 29974
  • Country: england
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Coupling survey
« Reply #54 on: June 14, 2014, 01:28:53 PM »
I had wondered whether very strong magnets mounted on the outer edge of the rails might work, with the tops a little above rail height. I don't have any suitable magnets to try.

That would certainly make fitting magnets much easier and avoid carving sleepers from the track. I'd be interested to know if anyone has successfully experimented with this :hmmm:

Offline NZModeller

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newbie
  • **
  • Posts: 3
  • Country: nz
    • Awards
Re: Coupling survey
« Reply #55 on: June 14, 2014, 01:38:18 PM »
Hi Everyone,

I've converted to Dapol magnetic couplings and on the whole I'm pretty pleased with them, however, I have basically given up on the delayed action as there are many factors that get in the way of this being reliable:

Curves before magnets
Short wheelbase stock
Short wheelbase locos i.e. shunters!
Sprung close coupling mechanisms

That's pretty much everything I want to shunt with.

I have, however found a way to retrofit the Dapol magnets under Peco code 55 so they are reliable and invisible so it's just a case of putting them in the right places.

Here's how

Remove 8 sleepers including all the plastic runners from the grooves in the rail and the ballast.
Fix the magnet in the gap temporarily and check for operation, adjust the height if necessary.
Take a spare section of code 55 and turn rails down, CAREFULLY pare off 8 sleepers flush with the rail (you may need to build a jig to do this. You should be left with a "ladder" of 8 sleepers around .5mm thick, complete with the runners between. The ladder can be slid into the grooves in the rails above the magnet and the track re-ballasted.  I've done about 10 of these and they are impossible to spot in general operation so you will need a marker of some kind.

Also, has anyone used the Etched Pixels NEM bar couplings for permanently coupled rakes? HST in particular.

Peter

Offline Karhedron

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 19444
  • Posts: 2250
  • Country: 00
    • Awards
Re: Coupling survey
« Reply #56 on: June 14, 2014, 07:03:54 PM »
Surprising that Dapol haven't yet made an EasiShunt with a Rapido T-shank.  Perhaps they're working on it.
Part of the problem is height. NEM specifies the height but rapido boxes can be at any height. The Dapol couplings need to be at the same height as each other to operate reliably. Rapidos can do it because the shape of the coupling hook will compensate for height differences but then it does not need to uncouple remotely.

That is why Dapol produced NEM pocket conversion kits rather than a Rapido version. Dave Jones said that attempts to make a Rapido version of the Easi shunt were not reliable enough.
Well, that's just not good enough. Some fount of all knowledge you are!  :no:  ;)

Offline Chinahand

  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 18337
  • Posts: 1025
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Skype
    • Awards
Re: Coupling survey
« Reply #57 on: June 14, 2014, 08:44:39 PM »
Hi Richard,

I've just completed your survey but would like to add a couple of clarifications.

The last question refers to the Micro-trains couplers which I did try but found that they required just too much 'surgery', particularly to steam locos, which I was not happy to do so I abandoned them.

Secondly, for permanently connected rakes of carriages or wagons I'm using the Tomix Scharfenberg couplers which I get from DCC Supplies and are a simple straight replacement for Rapidos but are far less intrusive and give much closer coupling. http://www.dccsupplies.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=3086
Regards,
Trevor (aka Chinahand)
(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

Offline Greybeema

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 22399
  • Posts: 993
  • Country: england
    • Awards
Re: Coupling survey
« Reply #58 on: June 15, 2014, 09:29:52 AM »
Chinahand,

Using the Sharfenberg couplers - what radius of track will they go around?

EP same question ref your Bar Couplings..
:Class414:
Worlds Greatest Suburban Electric - Southern
(Sparky Arcy 3rd Rail Electrickery Traction)

My Layout on NGauge Forum:- http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=12592.msg154278#msg154278

Offline Chinahand

  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 18337
  • Posts: 1025
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Skype
    • Awards
Re: Coupling survey
« Reply #59 on: June 15, 2014, 12:25:31 PM »
Not sure what their minimum radius is but the minimum on my layout is 15" and they have no problem dealing with that. However, I'm guessing that, because they give quite close coupling, smaller radii could result in buffer locking.
Regards,
Trevor (aka Chinahand)
(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

 

Please Support Us!
December Goal: £55.00
Due Date: Dec 31
Total Receipts: £120.00
Above Goal: £65.00
Site Currency: GBP
218% 
December Donations


Advertise Here
anything