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Author Topic: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's  (Read 15931 times)

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Offline BernardTPM

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Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2011, 11:17:28 PM »
I'm not sure about the exact changeover to BR blue (think it was about 1967/8) but I'm sure someone on the forum can place it for you.
Blue from 1965, with full yellow ends from 1967.

Offline bees

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Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2011, 01:48:33 PM »
I have three of the 101's -

2 with the full 8wd chassis and they have split gears, and I now know, thanks to this thread, that I need to check every gear!!!

The other, 4wd motor bogie, is an excellent runner and has actually been taken from the 101 and used in my 123 kit, happy days!!! :thumbsup:
I like to start each day the same, sit up and take a deep breath!
First objective for the day achieved, woohoo!!!

Offline Les1952

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Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2012, 08:59:27 AM »
My class 101 is a four-car set, made by swapping ends over and getting a power underframe from a scrapper to make the second "power" car.

Still a bit rough, but as the brake is in the right place it looks OK from a distance.

Shame they're not making a 4-car set of the new one ("ever" to quote Colin A when I asked him).  Upgrading my 4-car is going to involve making a 4-car and a power twin from two three-car sets - expensive and delicate.

All the very best
Les

Offline greenlaneman

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Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2012, 09:52:40 PM »
Just bought my first - second hand - 8133 green eight wheel drive, which, with a bit of tinkering, now runs reasonably but is it supposed to be this slow? I know it has a geared down drive but!!!
Homeopathic warfare - the smallest army wins!
Terry Pratchett

Offline EtchedPixels

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Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2012, 10:23:44 PM »
Just bought my first - second hand - 8133 green eight wheel drive, which, with a bit of tinkering, now runs reasonably but is it supposed to be this slow? I know it has a geared down drive but!!!

They are noisy and their top speed is relatively slow (although it should be somewhat over the real scale top speed). If it's very sluggish then check the motor isn't really hot after running it for a bit. If it is suspect bearings or lubrication problems.
"Knowledge has no value or use for the solitary owner: to be enjoyed it must be communicated" -- Charles Pratt, 1st Earl Camden

Offline siriushardware

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Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2013, 12:36:00 AM »
Hi all - my first post here, and bumping an old discussion to add to it, as the subject at hand is the same, so trying to keep it all in one place.

After decades away from railway modelling, I have decided to revive my interest in a minor way and my first purchase has been a second hand Farish (Poole) BR Green 101 DMU, with a single motor bogie (which has brass gears) in the power car.

After a few hours of running in, I find that I can take it down from a higher speed  to a very slow speed before it stops, but sometimes when I wind the power slowly up from zero to full (12V) it lurches forward a millimetre and then sticks - if I put an ammeter in series with it under these conditions I can see it is drawing 200mA or so, so the problem is not loss of power or open circuit - more likely the gearbox jamming.

Looking at the brass gears, they look pretty worn and there is quite a lot of free play not only between them but side to side. Is it still possible to obtain replacement gears? (I'm aware of the existence of BR lines in Guisborough, and as it happens I spend my weekends in that area, but I would like to get an idea of whether repair / servicing is even feasible before I bother them).
« Last Edit: December 09, 2013, 10:10:18 PM by siriushardware »

Offline Dr Al

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Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2013, 09:06:25 AM »
Looking at the brass gears, they look pretty worn and there is quite is a lot of free play not only between them but side to side. Is it still possible to obtain replacement gears? (I'm aware of the existence of BR lines in Guisborough, and as it happens I spend my weekends in that area, but I would like to get an idea of whether repair / servicing is even feasible before I bother them).

The gears are meant to be like that. They tend to appear loose, but as long as they are meshing and held in place with the bogie frame it's fine. The ones on the base of the bogie are very unlikely to be worn - it's most likely that the worm may be wearing, and the main reason it's sticky is almost certainly that it just needs a good overhaul, clean etc. Bear in mind Farish stopped making the motor bogies with brass gears in around 1983/4, meaning they are now 30 years old.

So some TLC in the form of a basic overhaul will probably be very welcome!!

The only thing that can wear is the brass worm - this can be changed out easily (although it's attached to the armature, you don't need to replace the full armature) - the single 12 tooth gear it meshes with can be changed for a plastic one so this won't happen again.

HTH,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.” – Dr. Carl Sagan

Offline oreamnos

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Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2013, 05:14:25 PM »
I know you said it had brass gears in the bogie, but while I know it is hard to believe I have actually had a Poole Farish brass axle gear split on me just like the plastic ones are prone to do.  I do wish I could find what I did with it because I'd post a picture.  I've also had the brass gears on another bogie (from a Class 25?  This was some time ago.) bind up a bit in the same place at each rotation of the wheels.   Even after much careful study I could never see anything visibly wrong, though.  After I replaced the geared axles with plastic geared ones all was fine.

Given the age of this model Alan is correct that it most likely needs a thorough cleaning.  Doing that is most definitely feasible.  While you have it apart, you might wish to replace the gears.  BR lines do sell them, part number B7101-2, £11.40 for a set of four.

Matt
« Last Edit: December 09, 2013, 05:16:02 PM by oreamnos »

Offline siriushardware

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Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2013, 10:07:01 PM »
Thanks for the replies.

Alan, I realise I'm listening to the voice of experience but I really am sure the axle / between axle gears are worn, as the teeth on each are noticeably indented where they have been rubbing / wearing against their neighbours. I'll try to upload a photo in due course. There appears to have been some recent attempt at maintenance because the gears are thinly coated with a very light grease, which looks quite fresh.

Incidentally, this is the five pole motor version, at least according to the sticker on the box. Another sticker identifies it as model #8143. The middle car and dummy power car are free-running, they set off at a gallop on the slightest of inclines.

It's news to me that this is such an old model (not nineties, but earlier, evidently) but I suppose that if the gears had not been brass they would all be in a sorrier state by now- it's alarming to hear that even the brass ones can split as well, though.

First step would obviously seem to be an inspection - excuse my ignorance, but how do I release the motor bogie from the power car? (I don't want to try to prise apart anything which isn't supposed to be separated).
« Last Edit: December 09, 2013, 10:14:39 PM by siriushardware »

Offline Dr Al

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Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2013, 11:00:59 PM »
Alan, I realise I'm listening to the voice of experience but I really am sure the axle / between axle gears are worn, as the teeth on each are noticeably indented where they have been rubbing / wearing against their neighbours. I'll try to upload a photo in due course. There appears to have been some recent attempt at maintenance because the gears are thinly coated with a very light grease, which looks quite fresh.

Incidentally, this is the five pole motor version, at least according to the sticker on the box. Another sticker identifies it as model #8143. The middle car and dummy power car are free-running, they set off at a gallop on the slightest of inclines.

It's news to me that this is such an old model (not nineties, but earlier, evidently) but I suppose that if the gears had not been brass they would all be in a sorrier state by now- it's alarming to hear that even the brass ones can split as well, though.

It's definitely not a 5 pole unit unless it's been meddled with in the past. The 5 pole armatures only came in with the later nylon gears in 1983/4. So either your unit has had the armature changed (indicative of previous problems) or is in the box from a later model.

The gears may look worn but I'm pretty sure you'll find them to be ok. The Worm may not be, but you won't be able to see that without removing the motor bogie. It's likely that years of crud and previous lubricant will be making the gears look worse than they really are - nowadays I remove the geared part of the bogie and scrub it down in warm water to remove all this and bring the gears back to being clean. This usually frees them up and reveals nice shiny gears, as good as new. It's certainly not worth contemplating changing them until you've done this kind of altogether more basic maintenance.

Plastic gears would be in a fine state unless mishandled in some way - the white nylon and later black gears simply don't wear in this way when meshed with other plastic gears. They can, though mishandling wear at the worm, but are otherwise pretty hardy (newer Bachmann Farish do have problems there though).

HTH,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.” – Dr. Carl Sagan

Offline siriushardware

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Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2013, 12:54:41 AM »
It's definitely not a 5 pole unit unless it's been meddled with in the past. The 5 pole armatures only came in with the later nylon gears in 1983/4. So either your unit has had the armature changed (indicative of previous problems) or is in the box from a later model.

Since the stickers on the box look original, I would say that I have an early 3-pole model in a later box. To be fair, the original owner did not make any specific claim about the age of the model, and he did say it was the single-bogie motor version. The only other statement he made was that it ran, which it does, generally not too badly.

The gears may look worn but I'm pretty sure you'll find them to be ok. The Worm may not be, but you won't be able to see that without removing the motor bogie.

How do I go about doing that? The last DMU I took apart was a Hornby '00' one of approx. 1960s vintage, some time in the 1960s. The roof could be unclipped and then the top securing / pivot screw for the motor bogie was revealed. I haven't noticed anything so obvious on this model yet.

Plastic gears would be in a fine state unless mishandled in some way -  (newer Bachmann Farish do have problems there though).

That's quite amusing, in the sense that I only ended up buying this particular model because I found that I could no longer buy the 2010-2013 version Farish Green 101 DMU new - it appears to have sold out completely and it doesn't look like there are any more coming. Did I have a narrow escape after all?

Offline NinOz

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Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2013, 05:58:29 AM »
It's definitely not a 5 pole unit unless it's been meddled with in the past. The 5 pole armatures only came in with the later nylon gears in 1983/4. So either your unit has had the armature changed (indicative of previous problems) or is in the box from a later model.
HTH,
Alan
Does that apply only to the 101; I have in front of me a Grafar class 25 with brass gears and a 5 pole motor.
It has never been meddled with.
To be called pompous and arrogant - hell of a come down.
I tried so hard to be snobbish and haughty.

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ParkeNd

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Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2013, 08:45:06 AM »
This is quite a scary thread. Virtually all bad news.

Are these problems going to beset the new green 108 (assuming only the body is different from a 101) that I have on quite expensive pre-order at Hattons. I mean poor speed control, growling motor, and splitting  gears even on new models ?

Wrong rivet profiles and oversize buffers I can live with but the listed problems with 101s would really put me off
« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 08:48:55 AM by ParkeNd »

Offline Dr Al

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Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2013, 09:09:12 AM »
Are these problems going to beset the new green 108 (assuming only the body is different from a 101)

No. The 101 we are discussing here is the old tool model. The new 108 and 101 have completely different mechanisms.

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.” – Dr. Carl Sagan

Offline Dr Al

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Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2013, 09:14:08 AM »
How do I go about doing that? The last DMU I took apart was a Hornby '00' one of approx. 1960s vintage, some time in the 1960s. The roof could be unclipped and then the top securing / pivot screw for the motor bogie was revealed. I haven't noticed anything so obvious on this model yet.

The motor bogie will either be screwed to a little swivelling bracket under the vehicle roof, or be connected via a 'U' shaped frame that simply clips into the sides of the underframe. The latter can be got out by carefully edging it out with a screwdriver.

That's quite amusing, in the sense that I only ended up buying this particular model because I found that I could no longer buy the 2010-2013 version Farish Green 101 DMU new - it appears to have sold out completely and it doesn't look like there are any more coming. Did I have a narrow escape after all?

The new tool models are way better than the older ones. There are isolated cases of the top drive gear wearing, but largely they are very smooth quiet and reliable.

However, the old tool models can be made to run well with care, particularly the motor bogie version you have.

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.” – Dr. Carl Sagan

 

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