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Author Topic: Completely Knocked Down  (Read 3804 times)

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Offline joe cassidy

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Completely Knocked Down
« on: March 27, 2014, 06:18:01 PM »
When I was a kid in the 60s Triang used to sell a range of rolling stock kits under the "Completely Knocked Down" (CKD) sub-brand.

These were basically identical to items in the RTR range except that they were supplied as a kit of components to be assembled by the buyer.

The price was significantly lower than the RTR version.

Is this something that could be revived by Farish or Dapol ?

I for one would be happy to pay 10 for a "CKD" coach instead of 20 for a RTR one.

Best regards,


Joe

Offline petercharlesfagg

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Re: Completely Knocked Down
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2014, 06:26:31 PM »
I remember them well!

I built or should I say constructed the CKD kit of the "Electra" with the overhead pantographs!  It ran beautifully once I had the electrical strips inside sorted!

Brilliant idea but I can imagine the tooling would push the price up again since RTR are reasonably cheap! (I say that tongue in cheek!)

Regards, Peter.
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Offline Karhedron

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Re: Completely Knocked Down
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2014, 09:03:02 PM »
Dapol offer some of their wagons unpainted at nearly half-price. This is handy if you plan to paint it in a livery they do not offer such as a crimson Siphon G.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2014, 08:48:32 AM by Karhedron »
Well, that's just not good enough. Some fount of all knowledge you are!  :no:  ;)

Offline E Pinniger

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Re: Completely Knocked Down
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2014, 09:17:06 PM »
This is an interesting idea given that nowadays assembly as well as tooling costs are a very significant factor in determining the price of models (hence Hornby's "design clever" method for their newer OO locomotives where as many details as possible are moulded integrally with the body rather than separately applied). It isn't very practical from a conventional shop retailing point of view (it means another range of items to stock that might not sell as quickly as regular assembled models) but with online retailing, especially when manufacturers sell direct (as Dapol do for example), it might work.

I would be sceptical of manufacturers actually doing this nonetheless, but Dapol already do it with their range of OO gauge LMS coaches (admittedly these are 1970s ex-Airfix RTR moulds). The kits are 10 compared to 15 for the assembled RTR model - a significant saving, and if you're planning to do any detailing or repainting work it's actually useful to start with the model in disassembled form.

Can't see Bachmann/Farish doing this as they are such a large company with so many ranges that it isn't worth their while, but Dapol might be a possibility, the fact that they sell their N gauge locomotive chassis separately definitely suggests a modeller-friendly attitude. Certainly if Dapol were ever to produce their rolling stock, especially coaches, in CKD/kit form I'd definitely buy some.

Peco's N gauge wagon kits are basically CKD versions of their RTR range, though unpainted (not an issue if you like to repaint + weather wagons anyway but I do wish they'd include decals, finding suitable commercial decals for some of them requires a fair amount of effort and extra expense)

Offline Bealman

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Re: Completely Knocked Down
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2014, 10:57:46 PM »
An interesting post. I too, remember the Triang CKD range very well! Of course, the Triang offerings were already the correct colours. My painting skills are absolutely terrible (and I mean terrible), and that is what puts me off building kits such as the Peco wagons, and the various locomotive kits that are available.

But certainly food for thought - if nothing else for reminding us of those nostalgic CKD models!

Thanks for posting!  :thumbsup:
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

Offline joe cassidy

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Re: Completely Knocked Down
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2014, 05:57:32 PM »
Now I come to think of, the Mike Howarth Stanier coaches were based on the CKD concept.

There were very few parts : roof, one piece body, underframe, seating, corridor partitions, glazing and bogies.

Everything was moulded in the correct coloured plastic, so painting was not necessary, except for the internal bits which were black.

I probably bought about a dozen of these, most of which have now been converted to other Stanier coaches with Ultima etched sides.

Best regards,


Joe

Offline Ditape

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Re: Completely Knocked Down
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2014, 01:29:34 PM »
I to remember fondly the Tri-ang CKD kits/models, I would certainly like to see the idea revived in n-gauge.
Diane Tape



Offline Bealman

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Re: Completely Knocked Down
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2014, 01:50:53 PM »
I think that all of us who remember the Triang CKD series would like to see the idea  in N, but, in all honesty, it ain't gonna happen.

We have kits, etched sides, etc available these days. All excellent products by fantastic folk who advertise on this forum. Their products come close and even better than the CKD concept, and look heaps better into boot. Sure there is a bit of extra work involved (the painting worries me - 'cos I know my limitations, thank you, Clint Eastwood), but in N, I think that is as close as you're going to get to the CKD concept. The two major British players will not want to entertain it.
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

Offline twinklekev

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Re: Completely Knocked Down
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2014, 02:21:09 PM »
As has already been said, an excellent idea. And as has already been said, Dapol do offer unpainted wagons for the buyer to finish off so why not extend this to their coaches and loco's as well. As far as loco's are concerned; can not Bachman/Farish and Dapol not offer their locomotives painted but without decals, numbers, etc., so that we can do that for ourselves instead of having to remove the existing numbers etc., so we can apply a different number. They do this for the American model railroad market; unpainted and painted but unlettered/numbered varients of the fully finished models so the modeller can apply the decals/numbers and paint finish of their choice.

Just a thought kind of thing.

Offline NeMo

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Re: Completely Knocked Down
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2014, 03:06:47 PM »
can not Bachman/Farish and Dapol not offer their locomotives painted but without decals, numbers, etc., so that we can do that for ourselves instead of having to remove the existing numbers etc., so we can apply a different number.
Dapol did exactly this with one of the large logo Class 73s. Apparently sold extremely poorly, and if I recall correctly, the one I got was discounted because of that.

That said, like others here, I'd enjoy putting together a Dapol or Farish locomotive supplied as finished, painted parts. But the soldered wires, sockets and plugs inside (for example) the Dapol 86 are so fiddly it's easy to break them just opening up the model, let alone assembling them. Be more careful, you might reply, but what happens with warranties then? How would the retailer determine whether a faulty model was broken before he sold it or only broke when it was being assembled by the purchaser?

Cheers, NeMo
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Offline twinklekev

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Re: Completely Knocked Down
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2014, 03:37:04 PM »
Hmmm, curious?

So we won't buy an unpainted or painted loco and apply all the decals, numbers etc., but we'll buy a fully finished loco and then spend who knows how long getting the numbers off without damaging the paint finish just so we can put a different number on.

We railway modellers truly are an odd bunch :D

Regards, twinklekev

Offline Roy L S

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Re: Completely Knocked Down
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2014, 03:42:04 PM »
can not Bachman/Farish and Dapol not offer their locomotives painted but without decals, numbers, etc., so that we can do that for ourselves instead of having to remove the existing numbers etc., so we can apply a different number.

Dapol did exactly this with one of the large logo Class 73s. Apparently sold extremely poorly, and if I recall correctly, the one I got was discounted because of that.


Dapol did in response to alleged demand. As you say it was a dismal flop and the models had to be heavily discounted to shift them.

As far as locos are concerned I suspect it will take too long to sort box and package individual components, and I would also think they are designed for factory production using assembly jigs etc and not really suitable for a CKD type approach.

As far as wagons and coaches are concerned it may be easier but I would say that the same applies (and it may not be immediately obvious but there are numerous separate fittings on a Farish Mk 1 or Stanier coach!).

I am of the view that CKD worked well because of the bigger market and simpler designs prevalent then.

I think kits need to be specifically designed as such.

Roy

Offline Calnefoxile

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Re: Completely Knocked Down
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2014, 06:38:16 PM »
can not Bachman/Farish and Dapol not offer their locomotives painted but without decals, numbers, etc., so that we can do that for ourselves instead of having to remove the existing numbers etc., so we can apply a different number.

Dapol did exactly this with one of the large logo Class 73s. Apparently sold extremely poorly, and if I recall correctly, the one I got was discounted because of that.


Dapol did in response to alleged demand. As you say it was a dismal flop and the models had to be heavily discounted to shift them.

Roy

Not wanting to hijack this thread, but in my humble opinion, Dapol missed a trick with the un-numbered BR Blue 73, because they didn't bring the BR Blue one out until they'd produced all the other myriad of schemes, including some obscure ones, and so when they eventually did produce the BR Blue & unnumbered one, most people had already bought the heavily discounted, non-selling liveried ones and resprayed them.

Regards

Neal.

Offline Train Waiting

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Re: Completely Knocked Down
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2020, 09:07:20 AM »
With regard to @Bealman 's interesting comments on Tri-ang's 'Completely Knocked Down' (CKD) range in his brilliant 'Tri-ang Catalogues... 1962-1967' thread, I think that at least part of the reason behind the introduction of these kits was to exploit the rules governing the application of Purchase Tax.  That might help explain to considerable price differential.

Best wishes.

John
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The Table-Top Railway is an attempt to create, in British 'N' gauge,  a 'semi-scenic' railway in the old-fashioned style, reminiscent of the layouts of the 1930s to the 1950s.

For the made-up background to the railway and list of characters, please see here: https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=38281.msg607991#msg607991

Offline Bealman

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Re: Completely Knocked Down
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2020, 09:17:03 AM »
Cheers, John!  :beers:

I knew we had a thread about CKD on here somewhere! Thanks for directing me here!  :thumbsup:

I think you might be correct. I seem to remember seeing a similar assertion - somewhere!
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

 

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