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Author Topic: Sand Traffic  (Read 1808 times)

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Offline joe cassidy

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Sand Traffic
« on: February 15, 2014, 06:58:06 PM »
Does anyone know anything about the transport of sand to glassworks in the "big 4" era.

I have built (one) LMS sand wagon kit from Mill Lane Sidings and I was wondering whether this vehicle would have been used to transport sand to glassworks.

Presumably glassworks used hundreds of tonnes of sand every week. I believe that Pilkington, the most famous, is near Liverpool. Did they get their sand from the Mersey estuary or did it come by rail ?

Thanks in advance.

Best regards,

Joe

Offline MikeDunn

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Re: Sand Traffic
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2014, 07:17:14 PM »
I believe that Pilkington, the most famous,
Really ?  I'd dispute that ... I'd say that Pyrex was the most famous ... after all how many houses don't have Pyrexware in them ?

But it's a good question ... from what I recall, Pyrex had a spur on the other side of the road to the glassworks, where their stores where ...

Mike
(who lived on the other side of the river to Pyrex, and who's father ran the hand-blown German shop there - and I don't mean retail  ::); I have memories as a nipper of heading into the works with him when it was pay-day & his day off; never be allowed these days !)

Offline joe cassidy

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Re: Sand Traffic
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2014, 09:34:33 PM »
Pyrex is a brand of heat-resistant glass kitchenware.

I was thinking more of the thousands of tonnes of window glass produced every year.

Best regards,

Joe

Offline ColinH

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Re: Sand Traffic
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2014, 10:38:55 PM »
Don't know what happened historically but glass is made from silica and some of this is quarried here just outside King's Lynn and sent by rail to Ellsmere Port and Goole. That has certainly been the case since I moved here in 1980 when British Industrial Sand (had a camel as their logo) owned the quarry. Was taken over by Hepworth Minerals and then by WBB. The 'sand train' from Middleton Towers to King's Lynn is a regular and has its own siding loop next to King's Lynn station.

Generally trouble free but interesting occurrence in November last year when one of wagons in center of train derailed and blocked the level crossing.

http://www.kingslynn-forums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6667&p=48988&hilit=Lynn+%26+Hunstanton+Railway#p48988

Other bits of Real Railway items on this link as well
My layout Much Puffindun can be seen at http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=17426.msg173415#msg173415
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Offline MikeDunn

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Re: Sand Traffic
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2014, 11:32:57 PM »
Yes, I'm fully aware of what Pyrex is mainly known for; I would point out, however, that the factory made a damn sight more than kitchenware (although they made thousands of tonnes of that) - for example, you will find Pyrex brand laboratoryware.  They took the 'Queens Award for Industry' for quite a few years that I'm aware of ...

Given you didn't state the specific sub-industry you were referring to, only the generic term 'glassworks', I would still argue that Pyrex is more famous (how many times do you hear someone refer to their 'Pilkington window' compared with their 'Pyrex dish' ?).  But that's beside the point.

Borosilicate glass (such as Pyrex) is a better glass than the soda-lime-silica that Pilkingtons (and others) use; for example, superior thermal expansion, and better transparency (it is a crown glass, unlike soda-lime-silica).  However, soda-lime-silica glass is the cheaper product.  Think of a specialist loaf compared with the mass-produced plastic stuff the supermarkets love ...

As an aside : if anyone has modern Pyrexware (ie last 10 years or so), treat it carefully and don't use at the temperatures you can with the older Pyrexware - it is not the same material as the older Pyrexware; the new owners (World Kitchen) are cutting corners & using soda-lime, with all the problems that entails ...  If you are thinking of getting some, buy a different brand that is borasilicate ....

Mike

Offline Bob Wild

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Re: Sand Traffic
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2014, 12:05:10 AM »
My vote goes to Pilkington - there are far more car windows than measuring jugs. And I have noticed that recent Pyrex jugs loose their measuring graduations after a few excursions in the dishwasher.

Offline zuccah98

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Re: Sand Traffic
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2014, 12:40:00 AM »
This may be of some use:
http://www.igg.org.uk/gansg/12-linind/m-sand.htm
And this page which is specifically about glass works:
http://www.igg.org.uk/gansg/12-linind/glass.htm
Chris
A layout across the pond

Offline joe cassidy

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Re: Sand Traffic
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2014, 08:18:57 AM »
Thanks Chris

Interesting that the Pilkington factory is at Mill Lane in St Helens !

Best regards,

Joe

Offline MikeDunn

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Re: Sand Traffic
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2014, 09:54:17 AM »
And I have noticed that recent Pyrex jugs loose their measuring graduations after a few excursions in the dishwasher.
More cost-cutting ... people would have been sacked if this had happened in the Jobling days ... although Cornings may not have been that bothered; the new owners certainly aren't !

Offline cycletrak9

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Re: Sand Traffic
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2014, 09:59:44 AM »
I always thought that the Pyrex factory was in Cornwall - everybody has heard of Pyrex of Penzance.

I'll get my coat....................

ParkeNd

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Re: Sand Traffic
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2014, 10:11:27 AM »
I always thought that the Pyrex factory was in Cornwall - everybody has heard of Pyrex of Penzance.

I'll get my coat....................

No. It's in the Caribbean - and they move the sand in ships.

Offline 1936ace

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Re: Sand Traffic
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2014, 11:41:12 AM »
Hi joe
Thanks for an interesting topic. I only read last while searching through the ngs shop & came across the particular kit, mill lane. I did not know that sand was transported that way, I thought they were just 5 plank wagons.
I made me think what a great idea some sand wagons & I found the article that came with the page on the ngs very informative. In the morning I'm going to look through all my wagons to see if any of the LCMs 5 planks don't have the side door so I can gave some sand wagons as unless I read it wrong those kits are not made any more.
Were the loads covered in the open wagons
Bart

Offline zuccah98

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Re: Sand Traffic
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2014, 03:56:43 PM »

Were the loads covered in the open wagons
Bart
[/quote]
After trawling through the link posted above, it seems that in post war era sand was transported in covered 5 plank wagons and in the br era in covered hoppers.
Chris
A layout across the pond

Offline port perran

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Re: Sand Traffic
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2014, 07:01:58 PM »
This is an interesting topic.
In the late 1800s sand was used as a fertiliser by farmers and indeed in this area sand dredged from Bude was carried inland by canal and to a limited extent later by rail.
On my own layout, I have assumed that this practise still existed in the late 50s/early 6os and have a sand train running with 5 or 6 open wagons.
If it looks right then it most probably is right.


Offline EtchedPixels

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Re: Sand Traffic
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2014, 07:44:42 PM »
The BR era also included sand opens, although I believe they spent almost their entire working life in departmental use.

Paul Bartlett has an encylopædic collection of images here

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brsand

and the sand opens were done by Parkwood, and are now in the NGS range (they came in a pair with a four wheel steel coil wagon).
"Knowledge has no value or use for the solitary owner: to be enjoyed it must be communicated" -- Charles Pratt, 1st Earl Camden

 

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