Gone back to dc

[James C]

As I started at scratch in N, having come from OO and sold it all due to lack of space, I felt that going DCC was a sensible thing to do as I had to do everything in either one or the other. Had I already had a selection of N stock, as much as I do love DCC I don't think I would have gone to the hassle of the conversions I've had to do.

Yes it's a good learning experience, but as I currently run my (under construction) layout from the PC using JMRI it can be a bit of a hassle getting it setup when for once you just want to "play trains" for half an hour.

The additional expense of decoders don't phase me too much, it's the technical side of the control and initial setup of locos that I sometimes roll my eyes at and wonder why I do it.

Still love it though and wouldn't go back to DC, although I do maintain a simple loop stuck to the coffee table that's geared up to DC for running in.

[kevin141]

It seams like i have opened a can of worms,do not get me wrong dcc can be fun and my time using it was fun but with 35 locos converted and these were the easy ones and another 15 to go which were the hard or difficult ones to do because some of these are my favorites i made the decision to go back to dc .So as far as i can see in this great hobby of ours there is room for all systems and most of all enjoy what you do.Can i ask the mods to please keep a eye on this topic and if it gets out of hand please lock.Most of all i would like to thank everyone who has made a comment and hope it has helped some to make the right decision for them and as i said in other post i just like to take my trains out of the box and run them.
kevin 141   

[Newportnobby]

If it's a can of worms then it is a very interesting can (maybe the worms are of the multi-coloured variety )
I have seen no evidence that people are doing anything other than responding in a polite and informative way, and am glad you posted this thread as most folks move from DC to DCC and in all my time on the forum I have never seen the reverse, so thanks for starting the discussion

[ngauger]

Hi Ngauger,

I could counter some of your points about limits of DC, but actually, what I think it comes down to is - what's not to like......all that computer/digital malarkey!  I have enough of all that thrust upon me by work and social expectations!
Cheers  Jon 

Hi Jon
I work with computers all day, so believe you me, the last thing I want to do is mess with them at home!  That being said, I have found the software (JMRI Decoder & Pane Pro) to be so reliable, that I have never had to troubleshoot it in the 4 years plus I have been using it.  If you don't want to turn on your PC (or Mac in my case) (as JamesC said in previous post), then all you need do is to use your physical throttle that you bought when you set your DCC system up.  TBH, if it weren't for the software, I'd forget how many loco's I had!  As it stands, they're all listed in the roster, complete with a photo of each loco/DMU including manufacturer info etc.
I just wanted to clarify that, as I'd hate somebody new to the hobby reading something that would put them off!  I think the whole thrust of my DCC postings, is that any newcomer to the hobby, should at least get a demo of the system, then make their choice based upon their budget/requirements. 
I truly believe that DCC is best thing ever to happen to model railways, I wouldn't make all this noise if I really didn't believe that, wish it'd been around back in the 70's!

Maybe the words coals & Newcastle spring to mind here?!

I'll put my soapbox away now guys!!

Andy

[Brooksy]

It seams like i have opened a can of worms,

I don't think so - just an interesting debate. We frequently hear the praises of DCC, so it's good to hear about the advantages of DC for a change. I'm currently a DCer with hankerings after a fully automated DCC layout and reading what you and others have written has made me think a little more about it. I think I still do eventually want to go the DCC route but it's made me a bit happier with DC in the meantime. 

[James C]

I should point out that my layout is done through a Sprog and JMRI, so I *have* to turn the PC on to play with mine, which makes DCC a little bit more of a PITA

[PostModN66]

I just wanted to clarify that, as I'd hate somebody new to the hobby reading something that would put them off!  I think the whole thrust of my DCC postings, is that any newcomer to the hobby, should at least get a demo of the system, then make their choice based upon their budget/requirements. 

Excellent point Andy, and I quite agree.  More people attracted to the hobby can only be a good thing for all of us, and in this Smartphone era it might be what younger people expect.

And don't worry about a "soapbox" - good to have enthusiastic people, even if DCC is not for me!

Cheers  Jon   

[kevin141]

Just to add what ever system you chose it will be right for you so enjoy.
kevin141

[ngauger]

I should point out that my layout is done through a Sprog and JMRI, so I *have* to turn the PC on to play with mine, which makes DCC a little bit more of a PITA

Ah, I guessed that may have been the case!  Fair enough, but once you've held a 'Powercab' in your hand, you'll not want to put it down!

And Kevin141: You're absolutely right, the system you chose will be perfectly right for you!

ATB

Take care

Andy

[Robin2]

In the past, the same type of large American layout often used a more complex type of DC controller, where you had additional controls to set up the starting and maximum voltages for a loco before driving the train - effectively giving the DC controller the equivalent of a DCC speed table.  You'd be surprised at how much of a difference this made.  There were even a few digital DC (yes, DC) controllers that actually let you set up speed tables with loco ids/names, then select a loco by name or class before running it.  This type could even give you a calibrated speedometer by reading the back EMF!

Alas, these DC types have all but vanished,...

It should be fairly easy to build that type of DC controller with an Arduino Uno. OK, you would need a PC to create the Arduino code but when that was done there would be no need for a PC while you operate trains.

Of course, what I like about model railways is the opportunity to include computer stuff which is an equally important hobby for me.

...R

[1018509]

I gave up DCC in favour of battery powered radio control. I was always too lazy to keep my wheels and track clean enough - now I don't have to - they just work.

I haven't tested it myself but someone else said that locos get better adhesion on dirty track, which sounds reasonable.

...R

I had trouble every day with dirty track until I bought a rectangular block of artists graphite. It is slightly wider than the track and I liberally ran it along all tracks and dusted some, using a sharp blade, over each crossing.

I've had two failures since both with class 03/04 shunters when the wheels shorted on the accumulation of graphite dust in the frog area of the points, easily rectified with a soft brush. I got the graphite recommendation from this forum but didn't realise how good it is until I tried it. The extra blackness round the points areas adds to the realism too. I do still clean the locos' wheels occasionally.

[MikeDunn]

It should be fairly easy [...] with an Arduino Uno

Why re-invent the wheel though 

I should point out that my layout is done through a Sprog and JMRI, so I *have* to turn the PC on to play with mine, which makes DCC a little bit more of a PITA

No need ... get a Raspberry Pi and a small low-cost touch-screen, and use that instead ...  Move all the running of JMRI into the RasPi, and have the interface on the small screen (say a 7" one); or go headerless, and use a smartphone for the throttle ... or both    Have the screen for general usage, (inc internet such as reading this Forum  ) as well as the "front" of JMRI, and use a phone for playing with the layout 

Mike

[daveg]

A really interesting thread, so thanks to all the contributors.

Returning to the hobby after a very long break just over a year ago, I encountered the DC/DCC challenge a couple of months in to 'layout planning' and what has been a mad, fun-filled spending spree.

DCC sounded great but expensive so early on I opted for a Gaugemaster D controller. Now, with a collection of 30 locos and 12 of them definitely not DCC compatible, I've decided to stick with DC. Loads more wire but what the heck! 

Dave G

[ngauger]

DCC sounded great but expensive
Dave G

Ok, at the risk of hammering this thread into the ground!  I initially bought a Gaugemaster duo DC controller, which cost the best part of £80 from a 'local' model shop.  My (pride & joy) NCE Powercab cost £120 from another shop in Bromsgrove.  £40 difference, but just look at all the things the Powercab does, versus the Gaugemaster controller, which, well, turns on and off!
I rest my case.

Oh, plus you need a £15 chip in each of your loco's/DMU's.  When was this hobby ever 'cheap'?

Andy

[trainsdownunder]

I'm not going to use the old debates about cost as we all have our budgets (Budget - that's the fictitious number we make up each year to bust or beat isn't it ? My boss once said)

It was essentially developed in its current form in conjunction with the traditional big American-style layout, where a driver (sorry, engineer) takes control of a train then drives it right around the layout, shunting as he goes.  It is less effective when you have to keep selecting and de-selecting locos, and even worse if you have to hand them off to the next operator on a signal box to signal box type of layout ("what was that loco number again?" he shouts). 

For me this sums it all up.

Ask yourself what your layout is to you and the way you run it. The signalman in us will want full route control and the driver will want to drive. Add to that we are all "Fat Controllers" deciding what locos run and when ?

For most I think DCC/ DC is a combination. I still run full DCC for my locos, but have converted turnouts back to switches (Kato). I find it easier to quickly to  look at the position of the turnout switch (usually positioned at the board edge nearby) to establish the route. Far too much button pushing required not too mention memory of an elephant needed to remember which turnout/which number when DCC.

Not sure I would ever want full automation - although I admire Martink's layout and control system.

My layout gives me a sense of control that I am happy and that's what counts.

DC  or DCC - no real answer. Just a preference.