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Author Topic: NGS Collett BG  (Read 82809 times)

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Offline Ben A

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Re: NGS Collett BG
« Reply #450 on: April 01, 2017, 07:44:36 PM »

Hi Chris

That is not quite right.

With the models produced by Farish the deal is that they own the tooling from the off - we have exclusive use of it for two years, then they can use it themselves.

With Dapol we actually own the tooling, so the models can only be made with our permission or to our order.

At the moment we are focussed on the Carflat, HUnslet and sellling the remaining Thompsons, but once stocks are low on a few more of the Collett types we could well reorder.  We have done second runs of Snowploughs and Stove Rs in the past.

Cheers

Ben A.



Offline leachsprite4

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Re: NGS Collett BG
« Reply #451 on: April 01, 2017, 08:52:23 PM »
Ben,
I thought that was the case although the comment on dapol digest suggested they would be producing a full brake

https://digest.dapol.co.uk/forum/n-gauge-models/rolling-stock/collett-coaches/801-availability-of-maroon-stock


From the n gauge society website only the maroon version is sold out. I have two one gwr and one br crimson both lovely models at good prices. I'm tempted by chocolate one but no longer an n soc member.


Graham

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Re: NGS Collett BG
« Reply #452 on: April 01, 2017, 09:14:02 PM »
@Mirrlees  interesting re above!!



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Re: NGS Collett BG
« Reply #453 on: April 01, 2017, 09:42:24 PM »
You don't say which model you are after but we still have most in stock

Gill
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Offline Ben A

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Re: NGS Collett BG
« Reply #454 on: April 01, 2017, 10:18:42 PM »

Hello Graham,

I think it is just a typo.  The code mentioned on the Dapol Digest actually refers to a brake composite, not a full brake.

Cheers

Ben A.



Offline leachsprite4

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Re: NGS Collett BG
« Reply #455 on: April 01, 2017, 10:32:56 PM »
Hello Ben,
Thank you for that it is reassuring.
Graham

Offline chris newman

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Re: NGS Collett BG
« Reply #456 on: April 02, 2017, 12:19:24 AM »
Ben & Gill,
                as stated when I phoned about Wednesday (0151-606-4561) I believe I spoke to the membership secretary), last week particularly enquiring about K41 BG, I asked specifically about lined Maroon, I was told this was out of stock, I then asked about the possibility of a re-run as it fitted exactly in the time scale I modelled, I was told quite emphatically but very politely there would be no re-run.

             I am not wishing to complain or cause trouble for someone, I was just stating what I been told,  believing it to be true.

      Ben, pleased to hear that there is a possibility.  So if there is a re-run what sort of time scale do you realistically think might be possible, if you can think that far ahead?

Chris

Offline Ben A

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Re: NGS Collett BG
« Reply #457 on: April 02, 2017, 10:27:27 AM »
Ben, pleased to hear that there is a possibility.  So if there is a re-run what sort of time scale do you realistically think might be possible, if you can think that far ahead?

Chris

Hi Chris,

I am only really involved in assisting the Product Development Officer in researching and bringing the models to the range.  Further runs are up to the shop.

Cheers

Ben A.



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Re: NGS Collett BG
« Reply #458 on: April 02, 2017, 12:20:47 PM »
I'm sure many have been interested in this thread, and thank you Ben A for clarification on who owns what etc with the tooling.
Like any club/association members will be coming and going for a variety of reasons. For those just joining the NGS and wanting a particular NGS previous commision I can understand their wishes.

Many of us will have seen our NGS exclusive members models on ebay, invariably at inflated buy it now prices. That's life and there it is. Being a member of the NGS needs to bring some benefits, and the kits,rtr exclusives, Modelmaster decals, and of course the Journal will surely play a big part in people joining, and subsequent renewal of their membership.

I think a question to be asked is whether future exclusives are best produced by Dapol, or future Farish NGS exclusives are re-negotiated whereby "we" own the tooling. Of course some liveries will always sell out  faster than others. Given that the society shop product range has (understandably IMO) been reined in, perhaps the ongoing availability of NGS exclusives (where possible) needs to be seriously considered.

Please be totally assured I'm not having a pop at anyone, simply looking at it from the perspective of a new/ish member wishing to benefit from joining and purchasing one or more exclusive model/s.  Not all of them will be able or willing to patronise the ebay "opportunists" / sharks,and should they really have to? ...

Offline DJM Dave

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Re: NGS Collett BG
« Reply #459 on: April 02, 2017, 01:07:33 PM »
Hi,

Being the instigator of the NGS snowplough and StoveR projects actually being owned by the NGS, i always suggested that by owning the tooling, provided that they made the tooling monies back (and there's the rub), that they should do so, as they would be 'masters of their own destiny' as it were. It would create even more reason to become a member of the Society.

However, for decisions internally, it was decided to make a model every other year with a manufacturer to even things out fairly. I totally understand that premise.

But with 1 project you own the tooling and all the benefit thereof, for the other you basically buy the tooling for the manufacturer to use (by guaranteeing a set purchase amount at a set price) free and for gratis although you get a limited exclusivity on models from that tooling.

I could never understand how this is fair to, the then, both manufacturers.

I also note that in recent years there has been no tender process for projects, as i certainly havn't received an offer to quote. That's not bitterness by the way, there are obviously internal reasons why the NGS don't want to go down that route, and fair enough i suppose.

As a non member and manufacturer though, it troubles me that , as i understand it, the new locomotive is an NGS sourced, manufactured and owned model, cutting out the UK based manufacturers completely, and as such 'possibly' doing harm to those manufacturers who have supported the hobby for umpteenth years to a position were it is today.

I'd be glad to be corrected though, if only to set the record straight.

Just my tuppenth worth.

Cheers
Dave
N gauge Model Railway locomotive and rolling stock manufacturer.

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Re: NGS Collett BG
« Reply #460 on: April 02, 2017, 01:43:50 PM »
the new locomotive is an NGS sourced, manufactured and owned model, cutting out the UK based manufacturers completely, and as such 'possibly' doing harm to those manufacturers who have supported the hobby for umpteenth years to a position were it is today.

At the end of the day it's down to two words, economics and trust.

The NGS want to celebrate 50 years by producing something new so if they have to go abroad in order to keep the cost down well that's the world economy nowadays i.e. get it where you can for as little outlay as possible and make a bit of a profit if you're lucky.  In today's risk adverse society the NGS should be commended for pushing the boat out.

As for trust, well we've done that old chestnut to death down the years.

Offline Ben A

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Re: NGS Collett BG
« Reply #461 on: April 02, 2017, 03:01:04 PM »

Hello all,

Apoligies for the essay... feel free to skip but I thought it might be helpful to set some context around how we decide to produce models.  I think I have written most of this before on other threads or forums!


The NGS is a small organisation of volunteers, and as with all voluntary groups there comes a point where individuals need to take responsibility for anything to happen.

Working with the Product Development Officer I work with the Committee to research and select models to produce, so this is my area of responsibility.

THe first RTR model in which I was involved was the Taunton cargowaggon, a simple repaint created for our 40th anniversary.  I learnt a lot from the experience of producing the artwork and packaging for this model, and working with our friends at Dapol.

The good working relationship with Dapol then evolved into a project to produce our first "exclsuive" RTR model, the much-requested Stove R which was a considerable success. 

Following this I looked for other projects and I approached Dapol about producing the Snowplough because they had already produced a similar model in 00 for Flangeway, and it seemed sensible to take advantage of their expertise in this prototype.

There were then some rumblings within and without the NGS about us focussing too much on Dapol so the next two models (QM brakevan and LMS Inspection Saloon) were commissioned from Farish following a very productive meeting at Barwell.

With these models we also discussed the possibility of their leading to other models - with Southern bogies for Bulleid coaches, or LMS 50'underframe for the BG - for the manufacturer, and this became a secondary consideration for future production.

We returned to Dapol for the Collett BG with, at the time, the intention of alternating production.

Unfortunately this became untenable due to the length of time taken to deliver the model; we selected Farish for the Thompson BG (partly in the hope it would spur them on to produce a range of Thompsons, which it has) and their progress was significantly speedier, so we selected them for the Carflat too.

The idea of owning the tooling is nice, but Bachmann just won't work that way.  Yes, we could then refuse to produce any more models with them but we have preferred to be pragmatic and accept their terms, on the basis that as I explained earlier we are able to kick-start other ranges.

When I identified the Hunslet for the 50th anniversary model my primary criteria was that it HAS to run well.

I was also aware that the opportunity had arisen to work with Colin Allbright, the former Farish design engineer and creator of Ultima models who, having designed the Farish 03, 04 and 08, has unparalleled experience in designing small shunters in N, in my view.

So the selection of Colin was something of a no-brainier.  Yes, we could have asked Farish, Dapol, DJM and even Union Mills to "tender" for it but all would then devote valuable time to find a factory, come up with a detailed design specification, work out component supply chains etc and this takes time and costs money.

We are not building an airport here, these are all small companies and  I felt it was disrespectful to ask them to go through a process when, frankly, our minds were already made up.

The only Briitsh company we might have worked with is Peco, and we are: on a range of wagons for the 50th anniversary in liveries specified by our area groups. 

Everyone else gets their models made in China at this time.  If a plausible alternative becomes available then we would consider it in the future.

Cheers

Ben A.



 

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