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Author Topic: Cant Cove (and Penmayne)  (Read 543190 times)

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Offline Chris in Prague

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Re: Cant Cove (and Penmayne)
« Reply #1095 on: January 01, 2015, 02:23:14 PM »
In view of the success of the "Santa Specials", the local BR management at Wadebridge having decided to leave the temporary wooden platform near Weaver Cove in place for the already being discussed Easter and Summer specials. (Just like, later, at the wooden Boscarne Exchange Platform, at Boscarne Junction, opened in 1964, the Weaver Cove platform is provided with paraffin oil lamps for illumination.)

Offline port perran

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Re: Cant Cove (and Penmayne)
« Reply #1096 on: January 01, 2015, 05:25:08 PM »
I'd say 25 mins from Wadebridge to Trepol Bay and a further 20 minutes to Newquay would be a reasonable assumption.
I'm spending the whole day working on Tepol Bay today (stopped for lunch and glue/paint drying just now). It's a lot of detailed work today so won't be much to see later but I will try to take a photo or two.
Very mild here (12 degrees) , windy and slightly damp - very overcast.

Thanks, Martin: 25 mins from Wadebridge to Trepol Bay and a further 20 minutes to Newquay, it is. Wadebridge to Trepol Bay services would have to fit in with the Wadebridge - Newquay - Truro services which would also be complex as I'm assuming the joint SR and WR Wadebridge - Newquay - Truro (junction) line would be single track with passing loops at stations? Some Wadebridge - Trepol Bay services would go on to Newquay and some would go on to Truro? The summer timetable would be busier of course, especially at weekends, with the holidaymaker changeover day on Saturdays seeing the peak service. However, I'm assuming long distance trains to Newquay were routed via Par.

Weaver Cove would be 20 minutes from Wadebridge and only five minutes from Trepol Bay; however, it never had a regular passenger service, passengers changing at St. Issey (the station before Weaver Cove East Junction on the Wadebridge - Newquay 'mainline') where railway buses or local taxis took the few tourists on to Weaver Cove.

Yes, Trepol Bay has a through line with passing facilities. I envisage that it will see Wadebridge to Newquay services and Wadebridge to Truro services (some of which will be via Port Perran).
Yes, trains from up-country for Newquay would normally have bee routed via Par but in Summer months I'm going to assume that on Saturdays(due to congestion on the Par to Newquay line) occasionally some (shorter) trains ran the "long way round" via Truro, Port Perran and on to Newquay.  It was , of course, also a useful diversionary route.
Trepol Bay has a very mixed past as will become apparent when you start to see a mixture of former GW and LSWR buildings emerging.  Essentially, I'm assuming it to be an LSWR station but.....the original line, down to the harbour from the Newquay direction was a former GW freight only line. Originally the two were unconnected until an agreement was reached in 1901 to construct a connecting line for passenger services.  Up until that time Trepol Bay was an LSWR terminus.
If it looks right then it most probably is right.


Offline Chris in Prague

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Re: Cant Cove (and Penmayne)
« Reply #1097 on: January 01, 2015, 07:14:18 PM »
Thank you, Martin. I am still working on the 'back story' of the railways around Wadebridge. In my history things happened two decades' earlier and whilst the Bodmin Road to Wadebridge line was built by a GWR ally, but opened in 1867, the Wadebridge to Cant Cove (and a year later, to Penmayne) line was built by a company, backed by the Trevelvers, allied to both the LSWR and the GWR, which opened the same year.

That leaves the history of the 1893 North Cornwall Railway extension from Wadebridge to Newquay and Truro. In Cornwall there was widespread disquiet with having to rely on the GWR in those parts of the county where the LSWR had failed to penetrate so I would expect that the line would have been backed by allies of the LSWR. However, by this time, (not least through the efforts of the Trevelvers), the enmity between the Associated Companies (as the GWR and its allies were called) and the so-called narrow gauge companies—the LSWR and its allies had abated, so a line run by the LSWR but with GWR running powers would be a realistic outcome.

Offline Chris in Prague

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Re: Cant Cove (and Penmayne)
« Reply #1098 on: January 01, 2015, 09:37:00 PM »
The LSWR, although supporting and, after opening, operating the North Cornwall Railway (NCR) did not absorb it and it remained a separate company until 1922, probably (given its desire to extend to Truro even in the twentieth century) to avert strain with the GWR. However, the employment of the LSWR’s engineering consultants ensured the big company’s practices and standards. The rental and leasing arrangements meant that the LSWR managed just about everything on the NCR. Although references are made to ‘standard’ NCR buildings, it was really an LSWR design evolved during the 1870s (e.g. Mortehoe, 1874). Similarly the goods sheds and signal boxes followed current LSWR practice as did the permanent way materials.

Offline Chris in Prague

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Re: Cant Cove (and Penmayne)
« Reply #1099 on: January 02, 2015, 02:12:10 PM »
So, here is my proposed 'back story' for the Wadebridge-Newquay-Truro line:

"Following the success, the previous year, of the NCR obtaining its authorising Act of Parliament, in 1883 a Parliamentary Bill, supported by the Trevelvers and their allies, was prepared to authorise the North Cornwall Extension Railway in the form of a mainly single track line southwards from Wadebridge to Truro; four ‘Railways’ were proposed. No.1 was to run from a junction at Wadebridge station via St. Issey, St. Eval (bypassing both Weaver Cove and Trepol Bay), and Mawgan to a new station at the increasingly popular resort of Newquay. No.2 from Newquay to a terminus south of Truro city, with a spur at Wadebridge for direct running to Newquay from Penmayne. Railway No.3 was to be a spur from the north of Truro to the existing GWR line and station. Nos.3 and 4, together, formed a line from Wadebridge, around the south side of Truro to Penwithers Junction. The Bill included running powers for the North Cornwall Extension Railway from Truro over the GWR to Falmouth and Penzance.

However, despite strong support from Falmouth, Newquay, St. Agnes, Truro, and Wadebridge, as well as the Trevelvers and their allies around Penmayne, the LSWR would not support the North Cornwall Extension Railway. The Chairman of the NCR, J.C. Tremayne, however, met James Grierson, the first General Manager of the Great Western Railway (1863-1887), in November 1884 to ask for assistance. Once again, the Trevelvers’ lobbying skills paid off. When the LSWR Chairman learnt that the GWR was willing to support and invest in the extension, the LSWR changed its mind and, brokered by the Lord and Lady of Trevelver Castle, agreement was reached for the North Cornwall Extension Railway to be built, using the LSWR’s consulting engineers, and operated by the LSWR’s ally, the North Cornwall Railway (NCR), but with extensive running powers for the GWR. All of West and South Cornwall was Great Western and the GWR was loathe to allow its rival into its territory but faced with local demand to allow competition from the LSWR the agreement brokered with its rival giving the GWR running powers throughout the expanded and still nominally independent NCR (running from Halwill in Devon to Penmayne in Cornwall via Launceston, Camelford and Wadebridge then on from Wadebridge, via Newquay, to Truro, with loop lines serving Weaver Cove and Trepol Bay) seemed the best solution, although the north of the Royal Duchy was to largely remain dominated by the LSWR, through the NCR."

Offline Chinahand

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Re: Cant Cove (and Penmayne)
« Reply #1100 on: January 02, 2015, 03:19:19 PM »
Blimey Chris. This backstory is starting to rival War & Peace. Great imagination though and I look forward to some of the the consequences of this story line materialising on the layout.

Happy New Year.
Regards,
Trevor (aka Chinahand)
(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

Offline Chris in Prague

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Re: Cant Cove (and Penmayne)
« Reply #1101 on: January 02, 2015, 09:03:31 PM »
Thanks, Trevor. The backstory became more complicated as I wanted to incorporate Martin's layouts and Jon's.

Offline Chris in Prague

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Re: Cant Cove (and Penmayne)
« Reply #1102 on: January 02, 2015, 09:55:46 PM »
I am now thinking that the North Cornwall Extension Railway would not actually have been built beyond Newquay as it would have made more sense to simply grant the LSWR running powers from Newquay to Truro over the GWR! After all the GWR already had 3 ways of reaching Newquay including via Chacewater.

Offline port perran

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Re: Cant Cove (and Penmayne)
« Reply #1103 on: January 02, 2015, 09:57:23 PM »
I am now thinking that the North Cornwall Extension Railway would not actually have been built beyond Newquay as it would have made more sense to simply grant the LSWR running powers from Newquay to Truro over the GWR! After all the GWR already had 3 ways of reaching Newquay including via Chacewater.
I think that is quite sensible.
If it looks right then it most probably is right.


Offline Chris in Prague

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Re: Cant Cove (and Penmayne)
« Reply #1104 on: January 02, 2015, 10:13:35 PM »
I am now thinking that the North Cornwall Extension Railway would not actually have been built beyond Newquay as it would have made more sense to simply grant the LSWR running powers from Newquay to Truro over the GWR! After all the GWR already had 3 ways of reaching Newquay including via Chacewater.
I think that is quite sensible.

Thanks, Martin. I have made that change. The LSWR can still run to Truro and on to Falmouth and Penzance thanks to running powers over the GWR as well as the Port Perran loop off the GWR’s Newquay to Chacewater line. The question then arises for how long BR SR would have run to Truro from Wadebridge, let alone Falmouth and Penzance!

I'm assuming that Trepol Bay was served by a BCK off the "Atlantic Coast Express" at Wadebridge, however, I cannot see it making sense to serve Newquay, let alone Truro as it would be far quicker via the GWR?

Offline port perran

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Re: Cant Cove (and Penmayne)
« Reply #1105 on: January 03, 2015, 01:59:26 PM »
I'm not sure that practically the LSWR would have been able or likely to run to Falmouth or even Penzance for that matter. Certainly as far as locomotives were concerned. 
Running into Truro via Chacewater (accessed via Wadebridge then Newquay) would be fine. However, on reaching Truro the locomotive would be facing East. In order to run on to Penzance or Falmouth the loco would have needed to run round the train and turn on the Truro table.  It is, I guess, possible that through carriages could have continued onto Penzance (or Falmouth via Penwethers Jct) but probably either hauled by a WR loco or attached to a through WR train.
I think it more likely that if running powers were agreed it would only be to Truro unless we can imagine a triangle at Chacewater (which would solve the Penzance problem).
If it looks right then it most probably is right.


Offline Chris in Prague

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Re: Cant Cove (and Penmayne)
« Reply #1106 on: January 03, 2015, 03:01:49 PM »
I agree with you, Martin. Truro would, probably, have been the limit. Falmouth was a big attraction (as a 'packet port') before the passenger ships moved to Plymouth. After that it lost its attraction. I cannot imagine what the attraction of Penzance would have been for the LSWR, except, maybe goods traffic (premium traffic from the Scilly Isles: flowers and vegetables)? Through carriages were far more popular in the late 19th and early 20th centuries so LSWR carriages could have continued onto Penzance (or Falmouth via Penwethers Jct) but probably attached to a through GWR train. For example, in the 1930s winter timetable a through coach off the "Cornish Riviera" was attached to the "Atlantic Coast Express" (ACE) between Barnstaple and Ilfracombe. (However, the "Cornish Riviera" left Paddington half an hour before the ACE left Waterloo!) I cannot imagine a through coach off the "ACE" going to Truro, let alone Penzance?

I think the BR SR would have not run beyond Truro and even a through carriage of the "ACE" to Newquay would be unlikely. However, in the summer up to the early 1960s, I can imagine trains from Wadebridge to Newquay being popular.

Offline Chris in Prague

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Re: Cant Cove (and Penmayne)
« Reply #1107 on: January 03, 2015, 05:53:59 PM »
Of course, in the summer, particularly on Saturdays, the single BCK off the "ACE" to Trepol Bay could have a SK or even two added. The SK(s) could be Maunsells, Bulleids or even, at a stretch, a BR Mark 1, depending on which year in the 1960s you're modelling. The BCK would be a Bulleid or, in 1964, a late model BR Mark 1 with Commonwealth bogies and aluminium window frames.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2015, 05:55:27 PM by Chris in Prague, Reason: Updated. »

Offline port perran

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Re: Cant Cove (and Penmayne)
« Reply #1108 on: January 03, 2015, 06:54:24 PM »
Of course, in the summer, particularly on Saturdays, the single BCK off the "ACE" to Trepol Bay could have a SK or even two added. The SK(s) could be Maunsells, Bulleids or even, at a stretch, a BR Mark 1, depending on which year in the 1960s you're modelling. The BCK would be a Bulleid or, in 1964, a late model BR Mark 1 with Commonwealth bogies and aluminium window frames.
I am quite flexible in my timescale both with Port Perran and Trepol Bay. I never intended to stick with a particular year. I'd say I cover (very roughly) the period 1958 to 1968.
That allows me to run a variety of trains and locomotives and , as you know, I even have a couple of locos outside of that era !
If it looks right then it most probably is right.


Offline Chris in Prague

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Re: Cant Cove (and Penmayne)
« Reply #1109 on: January 03, 2015, 07:21:13 PM »
I'm modelling c. 1961 - 1968 which is, of course, almost the same period, but I'm beginning to realise what a perfect year 1962 was! I do have timetables for different periods and aim to replace Maunsells with Bulleids as appropriate for the year and reduce Bulleids for Mark 1s as the 1960s progress. I have once crimson and cream BR WR Mark 1 and some Blue and Grey Mark 1s but none are WR. I also have no BR Blue diesel hydraulics which, eventually, I would like to have. I don't want any plain Blue DMUs or railcars, though.

 

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