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Author Topic: Farish Bulleid Coaches  (Read 33776 times)

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Offline Chris in Prague

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Re: Farish Bulleid Coaches
« Reply #90 on: January 03, 2014, 04:49:33 PM »
The standard SR three-car set, 3L, was formed of Bulleid BSK (Semi)+CK+BSK (Semi), if you can stretch to buying another BSK (Brake Third) you can run a 3L instead.

Offline talisman56

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Re: Farish Bulleid Coaches
« Reply #91 on: January 03, 2014, 05:52:13 PM »
A question to those more informed than me. Could i run a brake 3rd as a train with a corridor composite as a loose coach? Thinking i coould add a brakecomp assuming it gets released at some point?
Simon


There was one 2-car set formed as BSK-CK between 1962 & 1964 solely as the Swanage portion  of the Royal Wessex.

Several 2-car sets were formed BCK-SK during the period 1965-1967, some for use on Bournemouth are local services & branch lines

dodger


According to Gould (Bulleid's SR Steam Passenger Stock), the 2-car sets formed SK-BCK between 1964-66 were the then remaining 2-sets 'R' with their BSK(SO) replaced by a Diag.2019 SK (as modelled by Farish). These were sets 63,68-70,72,73.

The 2-set Swanage portion of the Royal Wessex was formed from CK 5922 and BSK(SO) 2530 and numbered 864; neither of these are Farish-modelled vehicles. According to the SEMG in http://www.semgonline.com/misc/named_04.html the post-1957 version of the Royal Wessex was formed of Mark 1 stock, the coaches allocated to the Swanage portion were CK 15022 and BSK 34155, but were not numbered as a set. The SEMG 'coach sets' spreadsheet shows set 864 being formed in 1962*, presumably as a replacement of the Mark 1 duo: in view of the 1957 image of the RW being an elite service, the substitution of the modern Mark 1s with 'old' SR stock was a retrograde step...

*by the removal of the second BSK(SO) (2529) from the 3-set originally numbered 864.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2014, 06:00:29 PM by talisman56, Reason: added * postscript »
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Offline Chris in Prague

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Re: Farish Bulleid Coaches
« Reply #92 on: January 03, 2014, 07:04:53 PM »

. . . the post-1957 version of the Royal Wessex was formed of Mark 1 stock, the coaches allocated to the Swanage portion were CK 15022 and BSK 34155, but were not numbered as a set. The SEMG 'coach sets' spreadsheet shows set 864 being formed in 1962*, presumably as a replacement of the Mark 1 duo: in view of the 1957 image of the RW being an elite service, the substitution of the modern Mark 1s with 'old' SR stock was a retrograde step...

*by the removal of the second BSK(SO) (2529) from the 3-set originally numbered 864.

I believe the problem was that the use of all Mark 1s in the "Royal Wessex" was that they made the train excessively heavy.

Offline dodger

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Re: Farish Bulleid Coaches
« Reply #93 on: January 03, 2014, 07:22:23 PM »
Bulleid stock replaced the Mk1's on the Royal Wessex to increase the number of seats availiable. The Mk1 set utilised stock built for the Festival of Britain sets and all second class compartments had only 6 seats compared with the 8 in Buleid stock and later Southern Region Mk1 stock. Also Bulleid Brakes had twice as many seats as the Mk1's the replaced.

Dodger

Offline Chris in Prague

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Re: Farish Bulleid Coaches
« Reply #94 on: January 03, 2014, 08:14:23 PM »
Bulleid stock replaced the Mk1's on the Royal Wessex to increase the number of seats availiable. The Mk1 set utilised stock built for the Festival of Britain sets and all second class compartments had only 6 seats compared with the 8 in Buleid stock and later Southern Region Mk1 stock. Also Bulleid Brakes had twice as many seats as the Mk1's the replaced.

Dodger

Yes; I should have written excessively heavy for the reduced number of passengers they could carry.

Offline ajc

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Re: Farish Bulleid Coaches
« Reply #95 on: January 04, 2014, 12:11:42 PM »
In the Bulleid Coach Sets referred to above are the coach types as follows:
      BTK - Graham Farish 374-430/374-431
        TK - Graham Farish 374-440/374-441
        CK - Graham Farish 374-460/374-461
        TO - Graham Farish 374-450/374-451
Did the Br (SR) Green Livery replace the BR Crimson & Cream Livery as the Coach class changes to Second from Third?

Alex

Offline Chris in Prague

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Re: Farish Bulleid Coaches
« Reply #96 on: January 04, 2014, 02:03:19 PM »
I believe that, apart from on SR Boat Trains, 1956 saw both the end of 'third class' and the return of regional colour schemes. The Western Region promptly adopted GWR chocolate and cream livery for carriages used on its named express trains and lined BR maroon for its other passenger stock. The Southern Region reverted to green (very quickly for ex-Southern Railway stock, less so for Mk1s) and the other regions adopted the standard BR maroon. 1960 saw Southern Region adopt the now familiar yellow cantrail above first class and red above dining cars. By 1963 these stripes were found on all first and dining carriages. In 1962 the Western Region abandoned the use of its chocolate and cream livery.

Offline keithfre

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Re: Farish Bulleid Coaches
« Reply #97 on: January 04, 2014, 02:36:22 PM »
1960 saw Southern Region adopt the now familiar yellow cantrail above first class and red above dining cars.
Does that mean that pre-1960 no coaches on BR(S) sported those cantrails, Chris?

Offline Chris in Prague

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Re: Farish Bulleid Coaches
« Reply #98 on: January 04, 2014, 02:59:36 PM »
1960 saw Southern Region adopt the now familiar yellow cantrail above first class and red above dining cars.
Does that mean that pre-1960 no coaches on BR(S) sported those cantrails, Chris?

Yes, that is indeed so, Keith, which is why Bachman Graham Farish produced at least SR Green BR Standard Mark 1 BCKs without the yellow cantrail stripe -- I have some and will need to add the stripe for my period. I believe the SR was first to introduce the continental standard cantrail stripes because of its closer links with the continent. Interestingly, post-BR, the use of theses cantrail stripes seems to have finished but I may be wrong about that?

Offline talisman56

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Re: Farish Bulleid Coaches
« Reply #99 on: January 04, 2014, 04:39:01 PM »
From my travels recently, the stripes are still there on some ToCs stock: where it is, it isn't as prominent as during BR days. Sometimes it gets 'lost' in all the variations in colour in the livery.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2014, 04:40:13 PM by talisman56 »
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Offline Chris in Prague

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Re: Farish Bulleid Coaches
« Reply #100 on: January 04, 2014, 04:41:17 PM »
From my travels recently, the stripes are still there on some ToCs stock: where it is, it isn't as prominent as during BR days.

Thanks for that. I thought it was an International Union of Railways standard but it would appear that ToCs do not care about such things.

Offline keithfre

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Re: Farish Bulleid Coaches
« Reply #101 on: January 04, 2014, 04:53:46 PM »
What would the proportion of Bulleid vs. Mk 1 coaches have been on the Western portion of BR(S) in the late fifties/early sixties? Would one or the other have been more common on long-distance vs. local trains?

Offline Chris in Prague

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Re: Farish Bulleid Coaches
« Reply #102 on: January 04, 2014, 05:08:19 PM »
What would the proportion of Bulleid vs. Mk 1 coaches have been on the Western portion of BR(S) in the late fifties/early sixties? Would one or the other have been more common on long-distance vs. local trains?

That's a difficult question to answer succinctly but, to over-simplify, the SR was not keen on using BR Standard coaches and kept using Bulleid design coaches to about 1967 and Maunsell designs to about 1964 on the Western portion of BR(S). Local trains were predominantly Maunsells in the late 1950s and even into the early sixties with some Bulleids becoming more common in the 1960s. BR Standard coaches did appear around 1964, with BCKs replacing Bulleids on the "ACE" that year (which was a mix of Bulleids and BR Standards at the end; with Maunsells common earlier) and I've a photo of a 3-car set of BR Standards on the Torrington line. After the WR took over, BR standards became more common along with such oddities as a rake of Stanier design coaches used on trains to Bude, a Thompson coach in BR Maroon, WR Chocolate and Cream BR standards, and BR Maroon liveried Bulleids. (I have photos of all of these on the North Cornwall Line in the WR period.) BR Maroon ex-GWR stock (I presume Hawksworths) were also seen. Hope this helps.

Offline talisman56

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Re: Farish Bulleid Coaches
« Reply #103 on: January 04, 2014, 05:13:51 PM »
In the Bulleid Coach Sets referred to above are the coach types as follows:
      BTK - Graham Farish 374-430/374-431
        TK - Graham Farish 374-440/374-441
        CK - Graham Farish 374-460/374-461
        TO - Graham Farish 374-450/374-451
Did the Br (SR) Green Livery replace the BR Crimson & Cream Livery as the Coach class changes to Second from Third?

Alex

From the ends of the boxes:
374-430 - Bulleid Semi-Open Second Brake Coach BR Green (SR)
374-431 - Bulleid Semi-Open Third Brake Coach BR Crimson & Cream
374-440 - Bulleid Second Corridor Coach BR Green (SR)
374-441 - Bulleid Third Corridor Coach BR Crimson & Cream
374-450 - Bulleid Second Open Coach BR Green (SR)
374-451 - Bulleid Third Open Coach BT Crimson & Cream
374-460 - Bulleid Composite Corridor Coach BR Green (SR)
374-461 - Bulleid Composite Corridor Coach BR Crimson & Cream

So Farish have correctly noted that C&C coaches were thirds and the corresponding Green ones are seconds. Between 03/06/1956 (the date of abolition of third class) and the early 1960s (when the last C&C coaches were repainted), one could find C&C coaches with second class accommodation, but the BR(SR) green painted ones never had seating designated as 'third', unless you can find out whether the SR repainted any between May 1956 (when BR officially changed from C&C to Maroon (or a permitted regional variation) and June 1956...
My inspiration - never let a setback get you down...

My layout thread - Hambleside East: http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=18364.0
My workbench thread: http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=19037

Offline keithfre

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Re: Farish Bulleid Coaches
« Reply #104 on: January 04, 2014, 05:32:05 PM »
Thanks, Chris, I've made a note of all that.

I've a photo of a 3-car set of BR Standards on the Torrington line.
Any idea of the date?

I have a good collection of photos in books myself, but don't know how to distinguish between Mk 1s and Bulleids. Is there an easy way?

 

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