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Author Topic: Gra Far B1 tender lifting on one side  (Read 208 times)

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Offline JW62005

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Gra Far B1 tender lifting on one side
« on: May 16, 2019, 09:44:19 AM »
Hello,

I've just bought a second hand B1 from a seller on ebay and I really like the model.  It is second hand but only tested out of the box + has had a dcc fitted.  Unfortunately in reverse one side of the tender partially lifts and this results in a loss of traction.  This is problematic for me because my layout involves backwards and forwards running pulling coaches.  So, the power loss is much more noticeable hauling coaches to the extent that it can't really pull five coaches backwards.

Any advice you can offer would be great.  I have a video of this I can upload if helpful?  What I think might be happening is some of the wheels in the tender are a little loose and/or the motor is possibly out of line through fitting the DCC?  The chassis of the tender appears to be inline and not wobblying when I test it (try to rock it) with a finger on the track.  I plan to contact the seller but wanted to know if this is a common and/or easily fixable problem.  So that I might be able to do it without returning to the seller. 


Thanks for any help/advice that can be offered.

Online Dr Al

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Re: Gra Far B1 tender lifting on one side
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2019, 09:49:00 AM »
First thing to check is whether all the traction tyres are all present and correct, and none are missing.

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.” – Dr. Carl Sagan

Offline JW62005

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Re: Gra Far B1 tender lifting on one side
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2019, 09:51:37 AM »
Many thanks - will do when i get home this afternoon (think they were) but need to check, for sure!

Online Bob G

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Re: Gra Far B1 tender lifting on one side
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2019, 01:26:42 PM »
I had this on a (supposedly new but bargain price) Farish Standard 4 2-6-0 from Rails. Similar tender drive design.
I couldn't figure it out. Running was really bad in one direction (reverse I think), not the other, and it was on DC.
I sent it back.

I think it could be to do with the traction tyres and/or the tender taking up the slack in the gears differently in one direction.
Certainly one of the traction tyres on my new model was loose, tempting me to think it was already a returned item, but Rails refunded me OK.

Hope you get a good solution - at best you can reject it and EBay will refund you. You may have to return it at cost however.
I don't think its worth keeping unless it was a really good price, and you think you can fix it.

Good luck.
Bob

Offline JW62005

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Re: Gra Far B1 tender lifting on one side
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2019, 04:52:40 PM »
Thanks Alan and Bob,

I've checked the tyres and one on each of the wheels on the rear axel. Could well be the gears. That may be beyond my skills. I'm quite keen to try to fix rather than send back. I haven't contacted the seller yet, for that reason. I have an old B1 that is not working so well and could do with a service. So potentially this can help to learn the skills and have looked up other threads on the forum on this.

So any further advice on the loss of traction due to it leaning to one side in reverse would be great.

Thanks

Jonathan

Online Dr Al

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Re: Gra Far B1 tender lifting on one side
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2019, 05:58:05 PM »
Obvious next checks are common sense ones:

- is the baseplate loose or not fully screwed down - there are two screws at either end of the baseplate, but also two between the first and second wheelsets. They don't want to be overly tight, but worth checking also that they aren't overly loose allowing slop.

- check all the gearing for garbage, ballast, scenics that might be lodged between teeth to give a lift or rough running.

- while the base is off, check for any illicit modifications, or suchlike. It's unlikely, but if someone has been in there filing things out or whatever, then it could cause problems (would be definite grounds for a return). Unlikely, but worth ruling out.

- post pictures here of how it looks. There may be something obvious that jumps out at folks reading the thread.

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.” – Dr. Carl Sagan

Offline PLD

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Re: Gra Far B1 tender lifting on one side
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2019, 11:19:24 PM »
Sounds similar to a fault I encountered with a Black 5 tender drive.
 It ran perfectly one way but really rough the other...
After much head scratching, I eventually identified that the shaft for one of the intermediate idler gears had shifted sideways and the opposite end was out of the bearing hole in the chassis block. One way, it ran fine because the thrust from the adjacent gears kept it in mesh. Running in the opposite direction, the thrust was in the opposite direction, so it was jumping in and out of mesh.
Pushing the gear shaft back in to place and a dab of pva to stop further movement cured it.

Online Bob G

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Re: Gra Far B1 tender lifting on one side
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2019, 07:45:35 AM »
Sounds similar to a fault I encountered with a Black 5 tender drive.
 It ran perfectly one way but really rough the other...
After much head scratching, I eventually identified that the shaft for one of the intermediate idler gears had shifted sideways and the opposite end was out of the bearing hole in the chassis block. One way, it ran fine because the thrust from the adjacent gears kept it in mesh. Running in the opposite direction, the thrust was in the opposite direction, so it was jumping in and out of mesh.
Pushing the gear shaft back in to place and a dab of pva to stop further movement cured it.

You have just very eloquently described what the issue was with mine. I hope this is the OP's problem too, if it is fixable.

Bob

Offline JW62005

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Re: Gra Far B1 tender lifting on one side
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2019, 06:00:30 PM »
Hello all,

Thanks very much for the advice. I pretty much have the loco working 100% now. I dismantled parts of the tender and gave it a clean - it was over oiled and there were bits of debris mixed in the oil on the gear cogs. I did this a couple of times and then switched wheels with my old B1 and seems to be working fine now. I'll reassemble the old B1 later and have cleaned the gears and pickups on this too, so hopefully will run better as well.

Thanks again,

 

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