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Author Topic: 5 pole Class 101 motor  (Read 394 times)

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Offline Dr Al

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Re: 5 pole Class 101 motor
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2019, 01:44:52 PM »
I advise against removing the gears on the armature and drive shafts - if they are not split then they should not come off.

I don't agree - I've done over 70 of these chassis since 1997, and did no less than 5 just last week. Removing the gears is no issue, and there is good reason to remove them, to clean (and occasionally replace) the bearings.

Of course, most will remove themselves as they'll be split!

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.”Dr. Carl Sagan

Offline DesertHound

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Re: 5 pole Class 101 motor
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2019, 01:47:14 PM »
My experience has been that removing them can then loosen them when you reattach them to the shaft, giving you a rotating gear on a stationary shaft - hence my advice.

Best

Dan
Visit www.thefarishshed.com for all things Poole Farish and have the confidence to look under the bonnet of your locos!

Offline Garyf

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Re: 5 pole Class 101 motor
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2019, 01:48:08 PM »
BR Lines have the type 3 armature GF8169 which has bearings and gears in place, £17.50 plus postage, is that the correct version.

Gary

Offline DesertHound

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Re: 5 pole Class 101 motor
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2019, 01:51:05 PM »
Hi Gary

Yes, this is indeed the armature you require.

Best

Daniel
Visit www.thefarishshed.com for all things Poole Farish and have the confidence to look under the bonnet of your locos!

Offline Dr Al

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Re: 5 pole Class 101 motor
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2019, 01:55:26 PM »
Never ever seen that happen in 22 years - have removed and replaced plenty of these un-split with no trouble. As supplied from factory they were way, way too tight anyway (the core cause of the splits), so they need reaming anyway.

Same happened on some of the late 1990s finer wheelsets where these gears were also used - they *always* split.

Having said that, the oldest of these chassis is now 35 years old - so if the gear hasn't split by now it probably won't now. I've certainly not seen any trouble on taking off and putting on again, but have in the early days seen un-reamed new replacements split again due to being overstressed. Basically this was a repeat of what happened to the originals from the factory - reaming and careful interference fitment is the prudent solution.

Generally if you want to use these chassis it's prudent to have a couple of the 16 and 25 tooth gears in stock just in case replacement becomes necessary.

Cheers
Alan

Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.”Dr. Carl Sagan

Offline Dr Al

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Re: 5 pole Class 101 motor
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2019, 01:57:07 PM »
BR Lines have the type 3 armature GF8169 which has bearings and gears in place, £17.50 plus postage, is that the correct version.

Gary

This is the armature, but the type 2 armature GF8029 is identical (and £2.20 cheaper) if you have undamaged gears and bearings that you can re-use.

GF8169 is also is unlikely to have correctly fitted gears (if they've not been reamed and just pushed on), so don't be surprised if they end up splitting!!

Cheers,
Alan
« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 02:04:01 PM by Dr Al »
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.”Dr. Carl Sagan

Offline Garyf

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Re: 5 pole Class 101 motor
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2019, 04:15:11 PM »
It looks as though the existing one has already been repaired as the gears are different colours black/white, not sure if I want to risk removing them if they have already been fiddled with.

Gary

Offline DesertHound

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Re: 5 pole Class 101 motor
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2019, 04:39:20 PM »
Hi Gary - this one’s definitely been messed around with then. The older DMU’s had the white nylon gears, and the later ones the black plastic ones. I personally keep all gears of the same type of material and plastic, but that’s your decision.

I agree with you on not taking the gears off the shafts if they are press-fitted.

Best

Daniel
Visit www.thefarishshed.com for all things Poole Farish and have the confidence to look under the bonnet of your locos!

Offline Dr Al

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Re: 5 pole Class 101 motor
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2019, 04:41:46 PM »
It looks as though the existing one has already been repaired as the gears are different colours black/white, not sure if I want to risk removing them if they have already been fiddled with.

That means they've been off before, so if they are intact it shows it's no logical problem in remove them again for re-use. The gear moulding, tooth pitch etc is all the same, so there is simply no issue with some being different.

The white gears are actually better in terms of strength (they only split on very rare occurrences), so if you've the option of using any number of them, it is superior and desirable. Unfortunately Farish only used these for a year or two, before going to the black plastic that led to the epidemic levels of split gear failures.

Interestingly, in more recent times, Bachmann have gone back to using this white nylon (a good thing!) - as even recent production black plastic new tooled models can still suffer split gearing, despite thicker gears and softer material being used.

Cheers,
Alan
« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 04:49:55 PM by Dr Al, Reason: more detail added »
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.”Dr. Carl Sagan

Offline DesertHound

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Re: 5 pole Class 101 motor
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2019, 04:51:26 PM »
Not necessarily been off before Al - equally likely that a black geared motor has been dropped into an original white chassis, or white geared motor with black geared shafts. Any combination of fettling could give mixed gears.

Good to hear Bachmann are going back to white nylon. Are you aware of these gears being produced in 12/16/25 tooth varieties?
Visit www.thefarishshed.com for all things Poole Farish and have the confidence to look under the bonnet of your locos!

Offline Garyf

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Re: 5 pole Class 101 motor
« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2019, 04:58:01 PM »
One end of the armature shaft has a black gear, the other a white one. I doubt it came out of the factory like that.

Gary

Offline Dr Al

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Re: 5 pole Class 101 motor
« Reply #26 on: May 17, 2019, 05:26:07 PM »
One end of the armature shaft has a black gear, the other a white one. I doubt it came out of the factory like that.

Definitely didn't!

I'd at very least retain both gears for future use as spares - there's no point in wasting them with the discarded armature - I hate seeing perfectly functional parts getting wasted!

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.”Dr. Carl Sagan

Offline Dr Al

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Re: 5 pole Class 101 motor
« Reply #27 on: May 17, 2019, 05:29:11 PM »
Good to hear Bachmann are going back to white nylon. Are you aware of these gears being produced in 12/16/25 tooth varieties?

No. They are all different (and more specific) sizes tailored for very specific models, e.g. 14 tooth, 17 tooth, wide ones and suchlike. But hopefully that means for those models the need for spares and the chance of split gears will have been reduced. It's possible there's a 16 tooth, but if so it's not yet being supplied to BR Lines.

Time will tell though - the black gears they've used are already showing prime candidates with many splits starting to emerge, even on new tool tender drive steam models, new tool 47s, even moreso on 57s and 66s.

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.”Dr. Carl Sagan

 

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