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Author Topic: Hadley Wood  (Read 10820 times)

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Offline martyn

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Re: Hadley Wood
« Reply #120 on: February 18, 2019, 08:35:50 PM »
Steve;

I don't know the ex GNR mainline geography very well, but would it have been possible for Cambridge line (or, exceptionally, a Peterborough stopper) to have had ex GER stock?

A quick look through albums suggest there was a purge of GER stock around 1958, both corridor and non-corridor stock, and there seem to be few, if any, photos into the 60s.

Martyn

Offline Innovationgame

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Re: Hadley Wood
« Reply #121 on: February 18, 2019, 08:37:38 PM »
Yes, the pre-grouping stock lasted a long time, didn't it!
Given that the average stock life was between 30 and 40 years and the time lapse between grouping and nationalisation was 25 years, I expect that there was legacy stock from pre-grouping handed over to BR by all of the Big Four.
With kind regards
Laurence
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Offline martyn

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Re: Hadley Wood
« Reply #122 on: February 18, 2019, 08:57:10 PM »
Reply #121, Innovation game;

Yes, I think that's perfectly true, but due to the LNER's financial state during most of its existence, I think it likely-though I haven't proof-that a higher proportion of pre-grouping stock was used by the LNER and then handed over to BR than on other regions; but I may be wrong.

martyn

Online Stevie DC

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Re: Hadley Wood
« Reply #123 on: February 18, 2019, 09:18:49 PM »
Not that I've been able to find Martyn. Both the Cambridge 2.04pm and the Buffet expresses were made up of ex-GN stock. The local and outer suburban services were made of ex-GN and LNER built stock - with the very occasional ex-NER example. If there were ex-GE carriages in formations working on that section of the GNML, they don't seem to have made it down as far as Hadley Wood unfortunately.

Regarding the proportion of pre-grouping stock operated by the LNER, I've seen it suggested that between 65-75% of carriages were still of pre-grouping origins at the outbreak of war in 1939. I've found some formations containing six wheelers running out of King's Cross as late as 1938. Admittedly these are on lesser or Saturday/Sunday services (and comparatively few in number) but they would have been nearer to (or over) sixty years old by that point in time and still running on the mainline.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 07:46:00 AM by Atso »

Online Stevie DC

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Re: Hadley Wood
« Reply #124 on: February 18, 2019, 10:02:07 PM »
I love the earlier period stuff, but I an on a lining diet

Then line it in the period three scheme? I think that was done once the flush sided Stanier's came out. Not my area of expertise and I'll have to model some ex-North London four wheel carriages before I have to worry able LMS bogie stock.

Online Stevie DC

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Re: Hadley Wood
« Reply #125 on: February 19, 2019, 07:23:07 PM »
Based on the information I've found over the last couple of weeks, I've revised the fiddle yard design for Hadley Wood.



I've removed the turntable in preference for additional loco storage loops (middle bottom on the plan). I decided that it was probably better to have more motive power available than the ability to turn individual locomotives.

The upper fiddle yard (and top loop) has had two additional kickback sidings added - these curve around at the ends of the layout. These new sidings will hold the 'catering cores' for the expresses. The other kickback sidings in the upper section will hold through coaches, permanently coupled in three or four coach rakes. These can be assembled with the cores to provide eight variations on the GN area express theme.

ECML workings will be represented by a Scotsman set and the Queen of Scots Pullman set stored elsewhere. Each will make one working in each direction.

It all looks a bit complicated and I'll try and find some time to annotate the plan later in the week.

Offline paulprice

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Re: Hadley Wood
« Reply #126 on: February 19, 2019, 08:46:56 PM »
Based on the information I've found over the last couple of weeks, I've revised the fiddle yard design for Hadley Wood.



I've removed the turntable in preference for additional loco storage loops (middle bottom on the plan). I decided that it was probably better to have more motive power available than the ability to turn individual locomotives.

The upper fiddle yard (and top loop) has had two additional kickback sidings added - these curve around at the ends of the layout. These new sidings will hold the 'catering cores' for the expresses. The other kickback sidings in the upper section will hold through coaches, permanently coupled in three or four coach rakes. These can be assembled with the cores to provide eight variations on the GN area express theme.

ECML workings will be represented by a Scotsman set and the Queen of Scots Pullman set stored elsewhere. Each will make one working in each direction.

It all looks a bit complicated and I'll try and find some time to annotate the plan later in the week.

Steve

Wow, it looks brilliant, when you build it can I be on the operating crew?

I will bring some open wagons, please please please

Offline Roy L S

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Re: Hadley Wood
« Reply #127 on: February 19, 2019, 09:44:57 PM »
Based on the information I've found over the last couple of weeks, I've revised the fiddle yard design for Hadley Wood.



I've removed the turntable in preference for additional loco storage loops (middle bottom on the plan). I decided that it was probably better to have more motive power available than the ability to turn individual locomotives.

The upper fiddle yard (and top loop) has had two additional kickback sidings added - these curve around at the ends of the layout. These new sidings will hold the 'catering cores' for the expresses. The other kickback sidings in the upper section will hold through coaches, permanently coupled in three or four coach rakes. These can be assembled with the cores to provide eight variations on the GN area express theme.

ECML workings will be represented by a Scotsman set and the Queen of Scots Pullman set stored elsewhere. Each will make one working in each direction.

It all looks a bit complicated and I'll try and find some time to annotate the plan later in the week.


Hi Steve

Looks complex in the Fiddle Yard but everything is there for a reason I appreciate and you really can see why those "Super Scissors" were needed, they really do work in keeping access to the various converging routes compact - length wise especially.

Looking at the scenic side, did information come to hand that led you to dispense with the crossover between main running lines? (And apologies in advance if you have already mentioned this!!).


Regards


Roy

Online Stevie DC

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Re: Hadley Wood
« Reply #128 on: February 20, 2019, 12:14:42 AM »
Hi Steve

Looks complex in the Fiddle Yard but everything is there for a reason I appreciate and you really can see why those "Super Scissors" were needed, they really do work in keeping access to the various converging routes compact - length wise especially.

Looking at the scenic side, did information come to hand that led you to dispense with the crossover between main running lines? (And apologies in advance if you have already mentioned this!!).

Hi Roy,

It is a bit complex but everything, as you say, is there for a reason. While the layout is a fraction under 12' by 3', Haldey Wood was (and is) a very busy bit of the mainline just outside of London. As a result, to represent even a fraction of the daily workings requires a lot of stock and locos as well as a bit of innovation to get everything into the fiddle yard. There will be bit of shunting to form certain trains but in this sense, that'll only make things more realistic - if only backstage. Even with all of this, I reckon, at best, I'm going to be representing no more than 5% of the daily workings for that stretch of line.

With regard to the crossing in the station, the 1935 OS map shows it in place. However, the 1932 signaling diagram from shortly after the re-signaling works suggest that it was removed. Hadley Wood's signal box was locked out after the works and was only used when access to the goods yard was required. Otherwise daily control was transferred to Greenwood. See here: https://signalbox.org/diagrams.php?id=335

The only photograph I have that clearly shows that bit of the station is from 1938 where it is clear that the crossover isn't there (the layouts operating period is c. 1932-39). As you can see from the signalling diagram, the line reduced to two lines between New Barnet and the Hadley Wood South tunnel. Given that this would have resulted in major congestion, it would make sense that the occasional pick up goods would arrive on the down line (the side of the goods sidings) and therefore, not complicate things by having to cross over (and obstruct) both running lines - the layout would suffer from the same problem.

Therefore, I have decided to ignor the OS map (apparently surveys were only done every few years) and rely on the official signalling diagram of the area instead.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2019, 12:18:59 AM by Atso »

Online Stevie DC

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Re: Hadley Wood
« Reply #129 on: February 20, 2019, 12:21:32 AM »
Wow, it looks brilliant, when you build it can I be on the operating crew?

I will bring some open wagons, please please please

Of course you can Paul. I'd be only too happy to have you come and help - I'll even throw in a free lesson as to why the LNER was better than the LMS as an added incentive to get you on board!  :smiley-laughing: :P

Offline paulprice

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Re: Hadley Wood
« Reply #130 on: February 20, 2019, 01:10:28 PM »
Wow, it looks brilliant, when you build it can I be on the operating crew?

I will bring some open wagons, please please please

Of course you can Paul. I'd be only too happy to have you come and help - I'll even throw in a free lesson as to why the LNER was better than the LMS as an added incentive to get you on board!  :smiley-laughing: :P

I knew there would be a catch but I'm willing to make the sacrifice :)

Online Stevie DC

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Re: Hadley Wood
« Reply #131 on: February 20, 2019, 03:51:56 PM »
I knew there would be a catch but I'm willing to make the sacrifice :)

No catch and no sacrifice required, just the opportunity to converted to the 'correct' way of thinking.  :D :smiley-laughing: :smiley-laughing: :smiley-laughing: :P ::)

Offline paulprice

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Re: Hadley Wood
« Reply #132 on: February 20, 2019, 04:44:48 PM »
I knew there would be a catch but I'm willing to make the sacrifice :)

No catch and no sacrifice required, just the opportunity to converted to the 'correct' way of thinking.  :D :smiley-laughing: :smiley-laughing: :smiley-laughing: :P ::)

You will never turn me to the DARK side  :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel:

Online Stevie DC

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Re: Hadley Wood
« Reply #133 on: February 20, 2019, 05:00:50 PM »
You will never turn me to the DARK side  :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel:

As apple green is lighter than maroon, I think you might already be on the dark side!  :P :P >:D

Offline paulprice

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Re: Hadley Wood
« Reply #134 on: February 20, 2019, 05:10:15 PM »
You will never turn me to the DARK side  :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel:

As apple green is lighter than maroon, I think you might already be on the dark side!  :P :P >:D

I will bring order to the forum  >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D

 

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