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Author Topic: N Scale GB DCC Fitting Guide Links  (Read 28355 times)

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Offline AndrewR

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Re: N Scale GB DCC Fitting Guide Links
« Reply #45 on: November 12, 2015, 10:52:06 PM »
Dear All,

I've just finished my last loco, the class 47, and tidied my notes. You are welcome to take a look if you are trying to convert an old 1970's-1980's Farish Loco, or the Minitrix Britannia or 9F.

http://personal.strath.ac.uk/andrew.j.roscoe/ModelRailway/

Locos covered:
  • GWR 9400 0-6-0 Pannier Tank (4F), 1970ís model 1104
  • BR 6100 2-6-2 Prairie Tank, 1970ís model 1605
  • GWR Hall, 1970ís model 1404
  • LMS 8P, 1980ís model 1811
  • Stanier 8F, 1980ís model 1905
  • BR Class 08, 1980s model 1005
  • BR Class 37/47, 1982-4 models 8014 & 8004

  • Minitrix Britannia 7P 70000
  • Minitrix Standard 9F, Evening Star, 92220

Andrew

Offline graeme Jolley

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Re: N Scale GB DCC Fitting Guide Links
« Reply #46 on: December 29, 2015, 02:20:25 PM »
Good day all.

I must admit that the thought of "chipping" all of my locos' was daunting. Unlike AndrewR below I have just (18 months) finished completing my split chassis Farish locos. I am now turning to the more difficult ones. I confess though that having read through all of the different threads here I am confused as to the best decoders to use. I have three different types of decoder now running on the layout and all seems to do a good job - my worry is that I get the best one for each loco which now needs chipping. Can anyone help please - of particular concern is the size.
I have to do:
Class 08
Jinty
(Obviously both are tiny)

Standard 4 Tank - Can anyone give me a tip as to how to get the body off as well please?
Class 20 - either Poole or early China type (not split chassis)

Finally I have an early 3 x car 101 DMU which I assume will need the same decoder as the 08?
I realise that I will need a digihat on some (possibly all) of these - but have no problem with that. Finally - and appreciate this is slightly off the topic but with regards to the old 3 car DMU - has anyone fitted it with lights at the same time as the decoder please?

Very much appreciate any advice or help that can be given.

Thanks in advance
Graeme (Isle of Man)
 :confused1:
Graeme

Offline Nick

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Re: N Scale GB DCC Fitting Guide Links
« Reply #47 on: April 28, 2017, 06:33:11 PM »
This may help Pesky Badger, here's a pdf copy created by me a couple of years ago when I did my conversion of the Dapol 14xx DCC conversion.

@Caz - Is there some reason I can't open this PDF? I get a "Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery" message. :(
Nick

The perfect is the enemy of the good - Voltaire

Offline Railwaygun

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Re: N Scale GB DCC Fitting Guide Links
« Reply #48 on: April 28, 2017, 10:43:35 PM »
This may help Pesky Badger, here's a pdf copy created by me a couple of years ago when I did my conversion of the Dapol 14xx DCC conversion.

@Caz - Is there some reason I can't open this PDF? I get a "Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery" message. :(


you cant access it in the gallery either.

perhaps it could be uploaded again? @Caz

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=media;sa=item;in=13384


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Steamie+

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Re: N Scale GB DCC Fitting Guide Links
« Reply #49 on: June 04, 2017, 05:57:51 AM »
This may very well be a really stupid question, but is there a general guide to decoder settings i.e. What each F stands for and what it does, i am completely new and lost with the setting and when members talk about changing this and that to get what is needed to work i am even more confused and some how it all gets lost because i canít follow what is being said, so i reluctantly donít chip my locos even though i have 5 or six waiting to be fitted of different makes, do they all have the same meaning and setting for any maker of them.  :helpneededsign:

Offline Chatty

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Re: N Scale GB DCC Fitting Guide Links
« Reply #50 on: June 04, 2017, 06:35:43 AM »
Good Morning

I think what is being discussed here is the F Functions.  In very simple terms by pressing the Fx button it will do something like turning the lights off and on, ring a bell, sound a horn etc.

Probably, what you heard or read being discussed is decoders with several different functions which to a beginner can be very confusing.

Have a look at the instruction sheet that came with your decoder and it will tell you what functions it has.  With the typical N Gauge plug and play (pray?) the functions will be limited to just 2.  That is all you will need to know.

There was a very discussion at this link on the subject:-  http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/52560-highly-basic-question-about-decoder-functions/

The best way to learn is to install the decoder, particularly if it is a plug and play type and have a play. You will get the hang of it fairly quickly.

Have you loaded up a copy of JMRI yet?  It is a great help to beginners.

Kind regards

Geoff





http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/52560-highly-basic-question-about-decoder-functions/
Have you hugged your locomotive today.

Steamie+

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Re: N Scale GB DCC Fitting Guide Links
« Reply #51 on: June 04, 2017, 08:19:01 AM »
Thank you Chatty and Good Morning, but i was looking for this, sorry for the confusion.

Table of supported CVs
CV Meaning Range Factory
setting
1 Basic locomotive address. This number is the short address
used to control the locomotive. When writing this CV, CV19
(consist address) is automatically cleared and CV29 Bit 6
(use of extended address) is deleted is set to 0.
1-127 3
2 Minimum starting voltage 0-255 0
3 Starting delay 0-255 6
4 Braking delay 0-255 5
5 Maximum speed 0-255 255
6 Mid speed Vmid (a value of 60 will give a linear curve) 0-255 48
7 Version number - 76
8 Manufacturerís ID - 99
9 Back EMF Repetition Rate 0-63 15
17 Extended locomotive address, high-order byte 192-231 192
18 Extended locomotive address, low-order byte 0-255 100
19 Consist address 1-127 0
28 RailCom configuration 3 (dec)
bit 0 (1) = 1 channel 1 used for address broadcast 0,1 [1] 1
bit 1 (2) = 1 channel 2 used for data 0,1 [2] 1
bit 2 (3) = 1 channel 1 used for command acknowledge 0,1 [4] 0
29 Decoder Configuration, Byte 1: 6 (dec)

Sorry if it looks a mess, i have copied it from the Lenz decoder page. Is this the same for all decoders?  :thumbsup:

Offline Chatty

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Re: N Scale GB DCC Fitting Guide Links
« Reply #52 on: June 04, 2017, 09:03:15 AM »
Now I see.

What you are talking about here is Configuration Variables commonly known as CV's.

Some of the CV's are "mandated" by the National Model Railroad Association (NMRA) in the US.  Others are what ever the manufacturer requires.

Variable is just that.  By altering the value the makes the decoder behave and therefore your locomotive in a different way.

CV1 is what they call the short address which is by default set to 3.  If you loco is number 23 and you wanted to change the decoder so when you dial that loco number into the throttle the loco will respond to it you would change the short address in the decoder to 23 by changing value of CV1.

You can change the CV value by using the throttle but it you find it a lot easier by using JMRI.  The link is:-  http://jmri.org/

The program (or should I be using the term App) is free and very user friendly.  It uses a graphical interface to enable you to change the CV Values.  There are a lot of tutorials on the web for the program.

My suggestion is install just one decoder and run with the defaults.  When you feel confident then start playing with the variables using JMRI.  I think that is how most of us started.

If you have any more problems particularly setting up JMRI we are merely a post away.

Kind regards

Geoff





 

 
Have you hugged your locomotive today.

Offline njee20

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Re: N Scale GB DCC Fitting Guide Links
« Reply #53 on: June 04, 2017, 09:27:27 AM »
JMRI is a very good programme, but I don't find it user friendly (as someone who works in tech) at all.

Honestly Steamie you don't need to change anything other than CV1 to get you up and running.

Offline longbow

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Re: N Scale GB DCC Fitting Guide Links
« Reply #54 on: June 04, 2017, 10:53:06 AM »
I have found JMRI Decoder Pro pretty intuitive and certainly vastly superior to programming via most DCC Controllers.

Offline Nick

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Re: N Scale GB DCC Fitting Guide Links
« Reply #55 on: June 04, 2017, 11:53:03 AM »
I'm with njee20. I didn't find JMRI intuitive when I started with it: it's like so many open source hobby software projects - written by techies who are thoroughly immersed in both the computing and the hobby task, and can't really step back far enough to appreciate how it appears at first sight to someone for whom this is a new field, perhaps peripheral to their main interest, or even just one interest among many. (I am admittedly a few versions  behind now, because I run it on a old netbook, so perhaps the current interface is better. I must set it up on a modern machine sometime.)

That said, I use JMRI exclusively for programming CVs now. Much easier than my controller, with the considerable advantage that I can save a settings file for each decoder and reload it if I mess everything up!

But this has rather gone off @Steamie+ 's question. What are you trying to do at the moment? Have you got a DCC system and are struggling to get it working? Or are you in the "baffled researcher" phase of the project, struggling to understand before committing, time, effort and precious cash to a new venture?
Nick

The perfect is the enemy of the good - Voltaire

Offline JayM481

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Re: N Scale GB DCC Fitting Guide Links
« Reply #56 on: June 05, 2017, 03:52:19 AM »
Most DCC systems have a fairly straightforward method to change loco address. You just need to decide if you want to use short or long addresses (in my case, as most of my locos are Grouping or early BR diesels I use long as the 4 digit long address accommodates most actual loco numbers). Changing loco addresses is really the only thing you need to do from the start.

Just start there, and don't fret about anything else until you get stuck in. As you get more comfortable you can start to mess with CVs in order to tune running characteristics, and do things like add momentum.

Steamie+

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Re: N Scale GB DCC Fitting Guide Links
« Reply #57 on: June 05, 2017, 06:16:02 AM »
Now I see.

What you are talking about here is Configuration Variables commonly known as CV's.

Some of the CV's are "mandated" by the National Model Railroad Association (NMRA) in the US.  Others are what ever the manufacturer requires.

Variable is just that.  By altering the value the makes the decoder behave and therefore your locomotive in a different way.

CV1 is what they call the short address which is by default set to 3.  If you loco is number 23 and you wanted to change the decoder so when you dial that loco number into the throttle the loco will respond to it you would change the short address in the decoder to 23 by changing value of CV1.

You can change the CV value by using the throttle but it you find it a lot easier by using JMRI.  The link is:-  http://jmri.org/

The program (or should I be using the term App) is free and very user friendly.  It uses a graphical interface to enable you to change the CV Values.  There are a lot of tutorials on the web for the program.

My suggestion is install just one decoder and run with the defaults.  When you feel confident then start playing with the variables using JMRI.  I think that is how most of us started.

If you have any more problems particularly setting up JMRI we are merely a post away.

Kind regards

Geoff



Thank you Geoff and @njee20 @Nick @longbow @JayM481 for your replies has i am really new to DCC and i have already 2 loco that already had the decoders fitted, one by the shop i bought my Cumbrian Mountain Set from and one i bought from a guy off the FB forum, plus one i have already put in to a loco, with a little bit of trouble i may add lol, i broke the little pins that hold the tender on, (oh well live and learn) so i have managed to set the cv for them, it was just that i read so much about what other members have to do to get their loco running at a more reasonable and dare i say it easier running pace i.e.: start up speed and slow down, that is just an example , by altering the CVís to different setting. But i will take on board all of your comments and i will just run the locos with just the CV1 setting to be altered, i will let you know when i have found the confidence to do other CVís.

If njee20 doesnít get on with JMRI and he is someone who works with tech i think it would be almost to much for me at the moment lol.

Nick i have a Z21 Black and the new WLANmuas, not used the WLANmaus yet for anything, but the Z21is easy enough for me to understand, although i have not got anywhere near to what it can do. Yes i am baffled by all this tech talk, so maybe like JayM481, njee20, Chatty and yourself i should just run my locos and enjoy them.

Geoff, i have downloaded the JMRI program and it is certainly a lot to take in, i have put my command centre name in (Roco) does it send the alterations by Wifi to the command centre or how does it program the decoder. I think i will leave it for the time being has i have said. Thank you for you kind replies and help, has it goes for all the help and replies to my question from the members who have taken the time to answer me.

 :thankyousign:  :NGaugersRule:

I hope this helps other members who like me find it a bit daunting and scary (lol) looking at all the numbers and thinking why have i bothered, but with all the help and advice on this forum and the friends that are made we can all enjoy our hobby even more.  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Offline Nick

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Re: N Scale GB DCC Fitting Guide Links
« Reply #58 on: June 05, 2017, 01:06:08 PM »
Nick i have a Z21 Black and the new WLANmuas, not used the WLANmaus yet for anything, but the Z21is easy enough for me to understand, although i have not got anywhere near to what it can do. Yes i am baffled by all this tech talk, so maybe like JayM481, njee20, Chatty and yourself i should just run my locos and enjoy them.

I only change three things routinely:
  • The loco address - I normally use the long form address
  • The direction of travel if required. I'd rather all my locos went forward when the controller is set to "forward"!
  • The speeds. Habitually, I do this by editing the 28 step speed table, because it was the only way I could get a smooth reaction to the controller out of my Poole-era locos. But that's probably not necessary with modern locos. You could probably do it with the max speed setting. I do like to able to configure each loco so that maximum speed on the controller is something sensible for the loco, so things like supersonic shunters are banished for once and all... :)
I've fiddled with other things like Back EMF and start up pulses when I have to, but I've not had much satisfaction, principally because I've not worked out a systematic routine for assessing when I've reached the optimum settings. So I'm never sure I've "done it right".

This is very much a field where the old management consultancy platitudes of "not boiling the ocean" and "a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step" apply. Do the minimum to get your locos working to begin with - you can always go back and tinker afterwards when you feel like it.

If you're not careful, you could easily find that your hobby turns into running DCC not model railways.
Nick

The perfect is the enemy of the good - Voltaire

Offline Chatty

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Re: N Scale GB DCC Fitting Guide Links
« Reply #59 on: June 05, 2017, 01:18:26 PM »


Geoff, i have downloaded the JMRI program and it is certainly a lot to take in, i have put my command centre name in (Roco) does it send the alterations by Wifi to the command centre or how does it program the decoder. I think i will leave it for the time being has i have said. Thank you for you kind replies and help, has it goes for all the help and replies to my question from the members who have taken the time to answer me.



As for one that is technically challenged, 10 ways of doing it right and only one doing it wrong I will always do it the wrong way, I find JMRI very easy to operate.

Only wish it could be done with WIFI but you will need some sort of interface between your command station and a programming track.  I am not familiar with the Roco command station so some else who is should be able to help you with an appropriate set up.  I should have told you this earlier and I have spent sometime in the naughty corner for not doing so.

Kind regards

Geoff
Have you hugged your locomotive today.

 

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