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Your Layout and Models => Layout Construction => Topic started by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on May 01, 2018, 06:46:02 PM

Title: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on May 01, 2018, 06:46:02 PM
Hi all,

I thought I'd start a new thread covering my attempt to build a layout of Hadley Wood station. Firstly, please don't expect lightening progress on this (the boards haven't been built yet!) but I've wanted to start this thread for some time.

I've built and abandoned several layouts over the last few years as none seemed to satisfy me. It was a visit to (and operating) Tony Wright's 4mm scale 'Little Bytham' layout with RoyLS and a couple of friends that finally convinced me that the problem was that I was trying to pack too much into my designs, that they were becoming unrealistic and that modelling an actual prototype would be more fulfilling for me.

I looked at several prototypes for the basis of this layout but all my initial preferences exceeded the available room of 12' by quite a way - Hitchin would have been my first choice but I'd have needed 20' to do it justice! Feeling a little down that I might not be able to model a prototypical location after all, I remembered Hadley Wood.

For those who don't know the station, it is a compact station on the ECML flanked at either end by tunnels (approximate 416m apart or 9'3 in N gauge!) with New Barnet to the south and Potters Bar to the north. The tunnels proved to be a bit of a headache to both the GNR and LNER as it force the line to narrow from a quadruple to double stretch of mainline - this was a major bottleneck on the system that wasn't quadrupled until the late 1950s. As I'm modelling the 1930's it'll be an intensively worked bit of line.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/64/213-010518183840.bmp)
(Extract from 1935 OS map)

Up until the quadrupling work, a small goods yard of two sidings and a head shunt was provided. Originally, the sidings were put in place (1885) to allow the delivery of building materials for local housing - part of an agreement reached between the GNR and a local property developer to build the station in the first place (the developer had to pay a rent/fee to the GNR until a certain number of properties had been build and inhabited). Following the completion of the housing, the sidings were turned over for coal and general goods (hay being something Hadley Wood apparently had in abundance).

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/64/213-010518184145.jpeg)
(Unknown photographer/credit)

The station also had an historic railway figure attached to it for a time. None other than Herbert Nigel Gresley lived in Hadley Wood (until the late 1920's) and used the station to commute in and out of Kings Cross (and wherever else he was needed)! A plaque was installed at the station a few years ago to commemorate this.

Unfortunately, the quadrupling work and later electrification forced the removal of most of the old station and today only the staircases to the platforms survive. However, the drawings for the station building are held at Kew Gardens and several photographs of it have started surfacing.

Anyway, enough of my waffling. Although I've not yet built the baseboards, I have built the most complex bit of track needed for the scenic section and will leave you with that for now!

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/64/213-010518183445.jpeg)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: andy-sf on May 01, 2018, 06:56:08 PM
This looks like it will be a really interesting project! I'm looking forward to seeing this develop. Nice trackwork too :)

- Andy
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Train Waiting on May 01, 2018, 08:17:32 PM
That looks to be an ideal location to model, Steve.  You'll get all the fun of the former GNR main line with a moderately-sized station. Often the 'less is more' adage seems particularly applicable to model railways.

Many thanks for including the OS map, showing that the track layout is pretty much the same as I ended up with on my layout (apart from it having a bay platform on the opposite side to the yard) which is nice to know.

Best wishes for your project and I'll be watching progress with keen interest.

John
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Newportnobby on May 01, 2018, 08:39:55 PM
I would say the name 'Hadley Wood' resonates with many a gricer, especially those of an LNER bent.
Don't take too long, though, Steve. :uneasy: :worried:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Bealman on May 02, 2018, 01:55:59 AM
Looks like it's going to be a great project!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on May 02, 2018, 10:57:43 AM
Thank you for your kind words of support and encouragement. I'll try not to disappoint!
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on May 02, 2018, 11:17:51 AM
To give a flavour of the kind of locomotives that will be running through Hadley Wood, below is a table outlining the classes found at Kings Cross one day in 1935.

A1 (Gresley's version before rebuilding into A3s): 6
A3: 2
A4: 1
C1: 10
D2: 1
J3: 4
J6: 7
J52: 25
J57: 1
J69: 1
K2: 4
K3: 18
N1: 22
N2: 22
N7: 18
O2: 2

Total of 143 locomotives.

Most of these were GNR or LNER built locomotives but it is interesting to see GER classes J69 and N7 shedded at 'Top Shed' as well. In addition, GCR classes such as the Sam Fays (B2), Lord Farringtons (B3), Directors (D11) and Jersey Lilies (C4) could be found hauling trains out of Kings Cross and passing through Hadley Wood at various points of the LNER's existence. Also, the Claud Hamiltons (D15-D16) could also be found working trains, usually the Cambridge beers trains. Ravens A2s made appearances although they were rare by the mid 1930s (and withdrawn shortly after).

As can been seen, there was a lot of variety in the motive power that would have travelled through Hadley Wood. Unfortunately out of the main list, only the A3s and A4s are catered for by rtr items. The B17s and J39s may have made an occasional appearance but they would have been rare indeed. The Peppercorn A1s and A2s along with the Thompson B1s hadn't even been thought of during the period I'm modelling.

Rolling stock isn't much better as over half the passenger stock during the period with have been of pre-grouping (predominately GNR) designs. The Minitrix and Dapol Gresley's are very helpful but only a small part of what would have been seen on a daily basis.

Anyway, a couple more pictures. The first is Hadley Wood today (Google maps) with the 1935 map superimposed over it. A lot has changed over the last 80 years or so...

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/64/213-020518111356.jpeg)

The second is a 1950's photograph I purchased from eBay. By this time the goods sidings had been lifted ready for the work to start on quadrupling the line but the signal box still remained.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/64/213-020518111558.jpeg)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Train Waiting on May 02, 2018, 04:18:12 PM
What an interesting list, Steve.

I wonder how many hours this 'day' included.  If it was from enthusiast sightings it might not have been 24 and some of the goods classes might be under-represented because of night-time workings.  Also interesting is whether these figures included multiple sightings of the same locomotive.  I understand that one 'A4' usually worked the Up and Down Silver Jubilee.  The 'A4' sighting is helpful as it points to the day being Oct - Dec that year, unless it was the first train on 30 September or the press demonstration train on 27 September.  Or, of course. a test working or similar.

Fascinating stuff, thank you.

And thank you for the photographs.

John
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on May 02, 2018, 05:24:46 PM
What an interesting list, Steve.

I wonder how many hours this 'day' included.  If it was from enthusiast sightings it might not have been 24 and some of the goods classes might be under-represented because of night-time workings.  Also interesting is whether these figures included multiple sightings of the same locomotive.  I understand that one 'A4' usually worked the Up and Down Silver Jubilee.  The 'A4' sighting is helpful as it points to the day being Oct - Dec that year, unless it was the first train on 30 September or the press demonstration train on 27 September.  Or, of course. a test working or similar.

Fascinating stuff, thank you.

And thank you for the photographs.

John

Hi John,

Sorry, the list is a tally of locomotives found shedded at Kings Cross that day - I should have phrased that better (slaps wrist!). Your comments have thrown up an anomaly  which I should have seen but never have (I've had this list for twenty years plus)! The list is dated 5th March 1935, so how could an A4 (Quicksilver) be found at Top Shed?! I think it is more likely that this tally was taken in 1936 when the four original A4s were in service but the next batch was still 9 months away. However, you are quite right to point out that this doesn't account for if this was taken at a specific point in the day or indicative of the locomotives assigned to the shed.

Regarding the humble 0-6-0T locomotives, I would've have thought that very few of them would have been seen at Hadley Wood as they would have been mainly used as shunting locomotives at Kings Cross goods as well as the transfer trips via the widened lines. However, I know the J52s did do some local trip workings so one or two will be justified I think.

I'll be (finally) joining the LNER Society at the end of June (to get a full years membership) as I've found that they have a working timetable for the area dated 1938. Figuring out what I would like to represent from this will be an interesting challenge as there is no way I'll ever be able to replicate a whole day's workings!






Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on May 02, 2018, 07:22:51 PM
I've roughed out the basic layout plan. The scenic side will be replaced by a printed version of the map as XtrackCAD won't allow me to import it. Unfortunately, it looks unlikely that I will be able to model anything outside of the railway's boundaries which is a shame as I would have liked to have included the 'Railway Tavern' just to the east of the bridge.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/64/213-020518191520.jpeg)

Some revisions will be required to account for board joints but basically every storage road can be accessed from the main lines. I've employed kickback sidings to increase the number (and length) of roads available and the turntable will allow hands free movement/replacement of locos to maximise variations in formations. I foresee that I'll have to use some mirrors, angled above the fiddle yard to see what is going on over the backscene.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Newportnobby on May 02, 2018, 08:20:23 PM
I foresee that I'll have to use some mirrors, angled above the fiddle yard to see what is going on over the backscene.


What a spiffing idea, Steve! ;)

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=6094.msg469050#msg469050 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=6094.msg469050#msg469050)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Train Waiting on May 02, 2018, 08:28:01 PM
I think that you are right about it being 1936 rather than 1935.  A handwritten 5 and 6 can be easily confused!  2510 was not in Works on 5 March 1936.  She was also allocated to KX for most of 1936, going to Gateshead on 15 December (back at KX 26/1/1937), presumably to cover for 2511 which was in Works for a General at that time.  All this supports your idea.

Thank you for the track plan.  Such extensive storage sidings will allow you to have a fantastic parade of trains through your 1:148 Hadley Wood.  I look forward to seeing them.  Hopefully with at least one of the mighty 'P1' class - British railways' second 2-8-2 type as I recall.

Best wishes.

John
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: port perran on May 02, 2018, 08:36:43 PM
I’m looking forward to seeing this build.
What I know about the LNER is very limited but this should be very interesting.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on May 02, 2018, 11:10:30 PM
What a spiffing idea, Steve! ;)

[url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=6094.msg469050#msg469050[/url] ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=6094.msg469050#msg469050[/url])


What can I say, great minds think alike Mick!  :D

I think that you are right about it being 1936 rather than 1935.  A handwritten 5 and 6 can be easily confused!  2510 was not in Works on 5 March 1936.  She was also allocated to KX for most of 1936, going to Gateshead on 15 December (back at KX 26/1/1937), presumably to cover for 2511 which was in Works for a General at that time.  All this supports your idea.

Thank you for the track plan.  Such extensive storage sidings will allow you to have a fantastic parade of trains through your 1:148 Hadley Wood.  I look forward to seeing them.  Hopefully with at least one of the mighty 'P1' class - British railways' second 2-8-2 type as I recall.


That makes a lot of sense John and I think that's the story we'll stick to!

The storage sidings will provide a nice selection of motive power and stock but it'll still be a tiny fraction of what would have passed through each day. There will be a lot of stock to build in the future to fill the storage room I'm planning, that's for sure! Both the P1 and P2 are on my list of locomotives to build. The P2s were Scottish locos but they all ended up at Kings Cross at one time or another. See the link for a picture of Earl Marischal heading south through Hadley Wood in 1934.

https://www.gettyimages.fr/detail/photo-d'actualité/train-hauled-by-the-london-and-north-eastern-railway-photo-dactualité/153927887?#/train-hauled-by-the-london-and-north-eastern-railway-class-p2-no-picture-id153927887 (https://www.gettyimages.fr/detail/photo-d'actualité/train-hauled-by-the-london-and-north-eastern-railway-photo-dactualité/153927887?#/train-hauled-by-the-london-and-north-eastern-railway-class-p2-no-picture-id153927887)


I’m looking forward to seeing this build.
What I know about the LNER is very limited but this should be very interesting.



Thanks Port Perran! I've been fascinated with the LNER for as long as I can remember. I think the biggest enticement for me is the extremes of the locomotives and stock. On the one hand the LNER were often at the forefront of development and innovation (not always successfully I might add) but at the same time cash strapped. It makes interesting contrasts to see an A4 passing something that was built at the turn of the century.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on May 03, 2018, 10:55:38 PM
Having scaled the map over the original plan, I found that I'd lose the Railway Tavern (that never did get a license and apparently was a private dwelling by the 30s) and the first house of 'Crescent East'. So I reworked the plan moving the scenic lines forward by a couple of inches and losing a road or two from the fiddle yard. Following this I found that the two buildings would still end up behind the back-scene so I've compressed the width in that area (cutting and pasting using Gimp) a little to squeeze them in...

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/64/213-030518224900.jpeg)

The first compromise (but I doubt the last), I think I'll get away with this and the important thing for me is that the distance between the tunnels is still to scale.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: DaveGlew on May 04, 2018, 05:12:17 AM
That is quite some enterprise - I look forward to development..... and the storage - just wow!
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Bealman on May 04, 2018, 05:28:24 AM
Yep, this is just getting better and better.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on May 04, 2018, 07:15:01 AM
Thank you for your kind comments. The theory behind the Fiddle yard is that I can use the kickback sidings for train storeage, running them out and (following a run through the scenic section) reverse them back in. This concept works very well on Little Bytham (Tony Wright's incredible 4mm scale model) and I'm hoping that I can emulate this. However this does mean that a couple of lines are dedicated to this reversing operation (to remove the need to reverse trains around a 180 degree curve!) and cannot be used to hold stock.

The longest loop lines are over eight foot in length and will be used to store the up coal and down empties. In theory this means that I can have c. 50 wagons in these trains - bearing in mine that 80 was generally considered the maximum for the O2s. The shortest kickback siding is just under three foot and will be used to store local workings and short expresses (of which there were quite a few apparently).

All this is dependant on a couple of scratch built point formations though. I could make these by chopping up a couple of scissor crossings and double slips but the prices for these are eye watering for something that might not work. I've now built a point and crossing from Finetrax with the last two points for the scenic section on the way. Hopefully this will give me enough experience to tackle a 'simple' scratch built point as a test piece before trying anything more complex.

If I'm successful in my scratch building, this will given me twenty storage roads plus some shorter sidings for loose stock and locos in an area only 16 inches wide. As somebody pointed out to me, Hadley Wood would easily see ten trains in each direction per hour in reality! :goggleeyes:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Bealman on May 04, 2018, 07:29:18 AM
Awesome!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on May 04, 2018, 08:08:21 AM
Awesome!  :thumbsup:

It'll only be awesome if the theory works in practice!  :smiley-laughing:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: weave on May 04, 2018, 08:31:15 AM
Morning Atso,

All sounds very interesting. Looking forward to your build.

Cheers weave  :beers:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Bealman on May 04, 2018, 08:46:12 AM
Awesome!  :thumbsup:

It'll only be awesome if the theory works in practice!  :smiley-laughing:

Yes indeed, but that's the challenge!

To me that's one of the great things about this hobby. Solving the problems as they come up. :beers:

Really looking forward to this.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Newportnobby on May 04, 2018, 10:36:28 AM
The mind boggles at the cost of stocking the fiddle yard :goggleeyes:
I can see why it's a long term project.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on May 04, 2018, 12:47:33 PM
The mind boggles at the cost of stocking the fiddle yard :goggleeyes:
I can see why it's a long term project.

I'm not even going to think about that aspect! All I'll say is that my tenth Dapol A3 will be with me next month (birthday present) and represents the eighth I've bought either second hand or as a spares/repair for considerably under the RRP (cheapest was a wreck for £10 that I spend another £20, and about a week, in repairs). In case you're interested, the latest one will end up as 4470 'Great Northern' as it was in 1937 with high sided tender but still in original Gresley A1 condition (i.e. no superheater header covers and right hand drive).

The current available and in progress motive power includes:

A1: 4472 'Flying Scotsman' (rebuilt from a wrecked A3 'Papyrus' and paired with a corridor tender back dated to c. 1928-36 condition).
A3: 4480 'Enterprise' (modified 'Papyrus' to right hand drive)
A3: 2500 'Windsor Lad' (Reworked 'Flying Scotsman' with bango dome and paired with a high sided non-corridor tender)
A1: 2562 'Isinglass' (modified 'Grand Parade': purchased spares/repair not yet complete)
A1: 2568 'Sceptre' (as for 'Isinglass' but with westinghouse brake pump dating it to 1933 or earlier: purchased spares/repair not yet complete)
A3: 2573 'Harvester' (as for 'Sceptre' but right hand drive A3: purchased spares/repair not yet complete)
A3: 2744 'Grand Parade' (standard Dapol)
A3: 2750 'Papyrus' (standard Dapol)
A3: 2751 'Humorist' (backdated and repainted BR 'Gladiateur' the only A3 fitted with a double chimney by the LNER)
A4: 2510 'Quick Silver' (standard Dapol)
A4: 4482 'Golden Eagle (standard Dapol)
A4: 4487 'Sea Eagle' (standard Dapol)
A4: 4490 'Empire of India (standard Dapol with incorrect double chimney!)
B17: 2871 'Manchester City' (standard Dapol - not strictly appropriate for Hadley Wood)
C1: 3279 (Gresley rebuild with outside valve gear - 3D printed body on Farish Jubilee chassis with Union Mills tender drive. A very early effort and awaiting a replacement to be built)
C12: 4519 (3D printed body on modified Dapol 14xx chassis and Farish front bogie)
D11: To be 5506 'Butler-Henderson (Union Mills upgrade, awaiting repaint from BR green)
D16/3: not numbered (Union Mills BR version to be repainted)
D49: 234 'Yorkshire' (3D printed body on Dapol Schools chassis with Dapol B1 tender frames and modified M7 bogie moulding - in bits again at the moment!)
J6 (x2): Not numbered (unfinished project 3D printed body on Farish J39 chassi)
J11: Not numbered (Upgraded Union Mills awaiting repaint)
J39: 1856 (Standard Farish)
J50: 617 (3D printed body on custom built chassis from N-Stars in Holland)
K3: 4004 (GNR cab version, 3D printed body on Farish N class chassis with V2 tender frames and modified J39 tender body)
K3: 2425 (LNER built, 3D printed loco and tender body on Farish N class chassis with V2 tender frames)
N2: 4744 (3D printed body on modified Farish 3MT chassis)
N2: 4750 (3D printed body on modified Farish N class chassis)
Q2: Not numbered (Union Mills)
V1: Not numbered (3D printed body on Farish N class chassis - test build in progress before making the print available to buy)
V2: 4771 'Green Arrow' (renumbered Farish - awaiting rebuild/replacement)
V2: 4844 'Coldstreamer' (Standard Farish - awaiting rebuild/replacement)

Total 32 locomotives: Collected or made/modified over a number of years (many when I once had a well paying 9-5 job before I got sick - several years in the past now!) and by constantly searching out the bargains and spares/repairs. That's not including the 3D printed A5 body I have, waiting for a suitable donor chassis to be found! For a general rounding out of the more typical motive power seen through Hadley Wood I really should make a 'standard C1', D2, J3, J52, K2, N1 and O2 as well. It does raise the question of can you really have too many locomotives? I didn't realise just how many I have until I made this list! Rolling stock is another matter and there is no way that I could fill out more than six roads with what I have at the moment!
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Milton Rail on May 04, 2018, 03:47:14 PM
That is an impressive list!!  very jealous, my own LNER stable is largely limited to off the shelf ones ... though have just taken delivery of A3 60061 "Pretty Polly" ... courtesy of TMC

Would be lovely to see D49 "Morayshire" grace Hadley Wood  :)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Newportnobby on May 04, 2018, 04:23:40 PM
That's one helluva loco roster, but I was thinking more of............

The longest loop lines are over eight foot in length and will be used to store the up coal and down empties. In theory this means that I can have c. 50 wagons in these trains

Depending on what you buy that's going to be around £1000 - £1500 for 2 trains, less what you already own, of course :goggleeyes:

(And, yes, I'm scared to try and put a value on my own stock :worried:)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on May 04, 2018, 05:11:06 PM
That is an impressive list!!  very jealous, my own LNER stable is largely limited to off the shelf ones ... though have just taken delivery of A3 60061 "Pretty Polly" ... courtesy of TMC

Would be lovely to see D49 "Morayshire" grace Hadley Wood  :)


It has been built up over a number of years and has mainly taken advantage of discounts, sand hand bargains and items that need repairing. Unfortunately, 'Morayshire' is unlikely to ever grace Hadley Wood as the D49s weren't common locomotives at the southern end of the system. My model of Yorkshire was originally going to be Lincolnshire as it was allocated to Kings Cross briefly c. 1929. However, nobody made any nameplates for Lincolnshire and, as I was going up to Pickering and seeing some of the Scarborough club (North of England Line), it became Yorkshire, came with me and got some running rights for the day!

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/213-270817133330.jpeg)
(Photo taken by Tony Wright and thanks to the NoEL team for letting me play for a little while!)

TMC do some lovely stuff, don't they? Unfortunately, it falls outside of my price bracket at the moment but does serve as inspiration to improve my own models.

Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on May 04, 2018, 05:16:57 PM
Depending on what you buy that's going to be around £1000 - £1500 for 2 trains, less what you already own, of course :goggleeyes:

(And, yes, I'm scared to try and put a value on my own stock :worried:)

It does get expensive but I find a combination of shopping around and kit building goes a long way to reducing the costs. However, that does mean that I've got a lot of wagons currently awaiting the paint shop!

Re Shopping Around: I found quite a bit of Farish in an antiques shop in Cheltenham last year. Chief amongst them was the old sand wagon but there were quite a few new type PO wagons as well. The owner wanted £10 for the sand wagon as it was 'rare' but only £1.50 for each of the new POs as they weren't old and 'common as muck'! I feel I got a good bargain that day for £25! My girlfriend now jokes and I have a sixth sense for finding N gauge items in the most unlikely of places!

Totalling up the total worth of everything I own..... my head hurts! Yes, it is quite scary when you think about it.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Train Waiting on May 04, 2018, 06:14:21 PM
That is an impressive list!!  very jealous, my own LNER stable is largely limited to off the shelf ones ... though have just taken delivery of A3 60061 "Pretty Polly" ... courtesy of TMC

Would be lovely to see D49 "Morayshire" grace Hadley Wood  :)


It has been built up over a number of years and has mainly taken advantage of discounts, sand hand bargains and items that need repairing. Unfortunately, 'Morayshire' is unlikely to ever grace Hadley Wood as the D49s weren't common locomotives at the southern end of the system. My model of Yorkshire was originally going to be Lincolnshire as it was allocated to Kings Cross briefly c. 1929. However, nobody made any nameplates for Lincolnshire and, as I was going up to Pickering and seeing some of the Scarborough club (North of England Line), it became Yorkshire, came with me and got some running rights for the day!

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/213-270817133330.jpeg[/url])
(Photo taken by Tony Wright and thanks to the NoEL team for letting me play for a little while!)

TMC do some lovely stuff, don't they? Unfortunately, it falls outside of my price bracket at the moment but does serve as inspiration to improve my own models.


Improve?!  I'm at a loss to see how Yorkshire could be improved  :goggleeyes:.

 :greatpicturessign:
John
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on May 04, 2018, 06:52:36 PM
Thanks John, I need to pluck up the courage to give it a light weathering but not as heavy as this:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/213-270817133352.jpeg)

Another Tony Wright photograph taken on NoEL. The GCR fish van isn't mine I'm afraid, it was scratch built by MikeJ of the Scarborough club and is very impressive!

Somebody on another forum found the a signaling diagram for Hadley Wood c. 1932: https://signalbox.org/diagrams.php?id=335 (https://signalbox.org/diagrams.php?id=335)

This has been a brilliant find as it clears up that there were no ground signals controlling the goods sidings (can't really call it a yard!) and that the signal mounted on the southern face of the bridge had been removed by that point. It also shows that I've only got two signals to model and that one of the is a colour light one. However, all the pictures of the semaphore I've got are from the 1950's and I don't know when the somersault signal was replaced with an upper quadrant type.

I've also spent a little time working out the approximate dimensions of the signal box. By the period I'm modelling, the signal box was being used as a covered ground frame with the box at Greenwood (between New Barnet and the south Hadley tunnel) controlling Hadley Wood and only unlocking the Hadley box when the goods sidings were in use.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/64/213-040518184732.jpeg)

Very rough (and incomplete) at the moment but I've been helped by a photograph of a quad set passing by the signal box. This confirmed that the roof of the box came to the same height as the roof of the coaches and gave me a known dimension to work out the rest. Unfortunately, I don't have a picture of the front of the box, so this has had to be complete guesswork. The box was a timber upper part resting on a brick base and intersecting with the platform ramp. I'll get around to building a study model at some point but next week has to be spent on getting some CADs finished!
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on June 05, 2018, 05:32:32 PM
Hi all,

Not too much progress to report, I'm afraid. I was hit by another bout of depression recently which managed to completely take me by surprise and wipe me out for a couple of weeks. This has been really annoying as I've been getting very good at managing this and haven't had any serious problems for some time. However, my better half surprised me with a mini-break to Somerset and, while I wasn't too keen at the time, four days away really helped me to switch off and recuperate.

I've been toying with the idea of hand building the fiddle yard track out of code 40 rail and copper clad as I'm not presently (or likely be be in the near future) cash rich. The cost of buying quite a few Peco points and having to modify them to fit some unusual formations was eye watering. I've tried to use Templot but I've not gotten to grips with it yet. Therefore, I spent a little bit of time this morning mocking up a short radius turnout in CAD.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/66/213-050618172523.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=66074)

Once I've finished tweaking it, I'll use a 2D image to print a template on which to build a test piece. While I've successfully assembled some of Finetrax turnouts, this will be the first time I've attempted a scratchbuild but I feel reasonably confident that it can be done. :) Should this prove successful then I'll have a go with a double slip.

A side benefit of building my own fiddle yard track is that I won't have to worry about raising the Finetrax to a level to be compatible with Peco code 55 or code 80.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Newportnobby on June 05, 2018, 08:33:04 PM
I'm sure there's plenty of folks interested to see how you get on, Steve, so keep us posted please.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on June 05, 2018, 11:07:58 PM
I'm sure there's plenty of folks interested to see how you get on, Steve, so keep us posted please.

Thanks Mick. I've got to adjust the check rail clearances as I've set them to 0.8mm opinion the CAD which results in a distance of 7.4mm. Having measured the back to backs of some Peco wheels (too poor to re wheel all of these at the moment), I'm likely to end up with clearance issues. Therefore I'll be adjusting the check rails to give a clearance of 0.9mm - I'm not inclined to mess with the back to backs too much and it would be nice if visiting locomotives could use the layout once built.

As the turnout isn't in the visible section, I've skimped with the number of sleepers. Hopefully this will still prove robust enough once built.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: GreyWolf on June 06, 2018, 08:01:24 AM
Very impressive CAD drawing there!  :thankyousign:

Cheers  :beers:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on June 06, 2018, 10:11:07 AM
Very impressive CAD drawing there! 


Thank you GreyWolf, it'll be even more impressive if it leads to a working scratchbuilt turnout!  :D

According to my parents, girlfriend and Facebook, it is my birthday today - I'm now getting to the point where I like to try and forget these! However, this morning did see a nice selection of presents for Hadley Wood.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/66/213-060618100336.jpeg)

My parents bought me the final two Finetrax turnouts for the scenic section of the layout, these will be employed to access the goods sidings. Some spare sleeper bases were also in the package which provides me with spares and (hopefully) an easy way to hold rail in gauge (and upright) while the initial few solder joints are made on the toe of the points.

My girlfriend got me Papyrus - actually, I found it on Ebay last month for very little money and pointed it out to her. It runs perfectly and I wonder why nobody else bid on it... This one will be backdated into Gresley's original A1 'Great Northern' as she was c. 1937 with high sided non-corridor tender. I just need to finish the other three Dapol A3 conversions I've had on the go for eight months first!
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Bealman on June 06, 2018, 10:21:33 AM
I admire scratch built track and have done for all my years.

However, in the words of Clint Eastwood, "A man's gotta know his limitations."

Hence I'm stuck with Peco.

Looking forward to developments!  :beers:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on June 06, 2018, 11:21:58 AM
I admire scratch built track and have done for all my years.

However, in the words of Clint Eastwood, "A man's gotta know his limitations."

Hence I'm stuck with Peco.

Looking forward to developments!  :beers:


Thanks Bealman. As I've never scratch built any track before (although the Finetrax kits are part way there) it could all end up as a glorious disaster!

While I agree with Mr Eastwood's quote, I like to try and find where my limitations are - usually where I thought they were but I've gotten lucky a few times by seriously pushing my luck! ;)

If all goes to pot then I'll be back to using Peco for the fiddle yard. Fingers crossed!
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: GreyWolf on June 06, 2018, 11:31:48 AM
According to my parents, girlfriend and Facebook, it is my birthday today - I'm now getting to the point where I like to try and forget these! However, this morning did see a nice selection of presents for Hadley Wood.
([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/66/213-060618100336.jpeg[/url])

Happy Birthday  :toot:

Looks like some nice presents there, enjoy!

My girlfriend got me Papyrus ... I wonder why nobody else bid on it...


Don't think the Ancient Egyptians had railways ??  :hmmm:

 :beers:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on June 06, 2018, 01:10:02 PM
Happy Birthday  :toot:

Looks like some nice presents there, enjoy!

Thanks, I'm very happy with them! However, I'm not looking forward to threading another couple of hundred (or close too) individual rail chairs but these are the final two scenic turnouts. :)

Don't think the Ancient Egyptians had railways ??  :hmmm:

I didn't either, I guess that someone rewrote history at some point. Worse still, it appears that Gresley plagiarised the Egyptian's locomotive design!  :goggleeyes: :goggleeyes:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Newportnobby on June 06, 2018, 03:36:58 PM
Happy Birthday, Steve :toot:

Not sure if I'm losing the plot or not but your layout build sounds as if you'll have Finetrax in the fiddle yard and Peco on the scenic side :confused2:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on June 06, 2018, 03:50:19 PM
Happy Birthday, Steve :toot:

Not sure if I'm losing the plot or not but your layout build sounds as if you'll have Finetrax in the fiddle yard and Peco on the scenic side :confused2:

Thank you Mick,

You're not losing the plot (that was lost a long time ago!  :smiley-laughing: :smiley-laughing: ). The scenic side will use Finetrax while the fiddle yard will be attempted using hand laid track on copper clad sleepers. In fact I've just ordered some bits from the 2mm Scale Association so that I can build a test piece.  :)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Newportnobby on June 06, 2018, 04:00:47 PM
Aha! The coin has now dropped. Thanks for putting me right :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on June 06, 2018, 04:32:25 PM
Aha! The coin has now dropped. Thanks for putting me right :thumbsup:

No problem. :)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on June 07, 2018, 07:25:39 PM
Hi all,

I spent a couple of hour this afternoon building one of the Finetrax B6 turnouts I got yesterday.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/66/213-070618192400.jpeg)

The next one will be the last turnout required for the scenic section of Hadley Wood! :D
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on June 08, 2018, 12:49:20 PM
This morning saw the final Finetrax turnout for the scenic section of the layout constructed.  :)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/66/213-080618124751.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=66193)

Looking at the earlier efforts, I might revisit the blades and tiebars to improve the clearances slightly.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on June 09, 2018, 01:59:31 PM
Following the arrival of some bits from the 2mm scale association today, I'm going to admit to feeling slightly smug at the moment.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/66/213-090618135234.jpeg)

Above is the test build of my first scratch built turnout based on the CAD shown a few posts about. The curve is a 12 inch radius but looks bigger as I included enough track at each end to take a wagon for testing. As I don't have any gauges, I set my calipers to 9 mm and used these to set the gauge - likewise with the check rails set at 0.9mm clearance. Amazingly a Peco wagon runs through the turnout without any problems. Construction time was about 2 hours but quite a bit of that time was working out how I wanted to tackle various things so I think I could get the time down a bit. Overall cost in materials must be less than £2.

Sorry about the untidy soldering, I have gaped the sleepers that were clogged with solder since the picture was taken.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Newportnobby on June 09, 2018, 02:18:49 PM

Sorry about the untidy soldering

Hah! You've never seen (and never will see) my attempts at soldering. It's so bad I have to get someone else to do it for me.

You should feel smug. It looks very good.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: RailGooner on June 09, 2018, 02:34:23 PM
Cracking job. :thumbsup: I lack the courage to tackle DIY track. :envy:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on June 09, 2018, 08:21:15 PM
Thanks guys,

Mick, you'll never see my earliest attempts at soldering either. I found the key was to have a hot iron and a good flux. For general modelling, I now use Carrs 145 degree solder and 9% liquid phosphoric acid flux (both available at Eileen's Emporium). For the turnout, I used general electrical solder and a small amount of Fry's Power Flux paste as I didn't want the solder to flow too much.

RailGooner, I would have never thought I'd try and scratch build my own track either. However, having built several of the Finetrax turnouts, I though 'how hard can it be?!'

The answer to that is not as hard as I thought it would be and quicker than threading plastic chairs onto code 40 rail - although the Finetrax turnouts look far better and there is no way I'm replacing them with copper clad for the scenic section!

I paid £7.50 for ten meters of code 40 rail, £2.50 for 500 'regular' sleepers and £2.50 for 75 50mm long sleepers. At most, the turnout consumed a meter or rail, 18 regular sleepers and 7 long sleepers so about £1.11 in raw materials (plus whatever the cost of the solder and flux was). However, it does cost £20 to join the 2mm Association to gain access to their shops - but this does give you access to a lot of items.

I do already own a Finetrax rail filing jig (a Christmas present with my first turnout kit) which I used to file the blades and frog. Again, this isn't too expensive to buy.

As I am currently cash poor, I'm really encouraged by the result of this experiment and I'm looking forward to tackling a couple of complex formations in the future. :)

Have a go, it isn't a huge amount of money to invest (compared to buying rtr turnouts) and you may well (like I have) surprise yourself.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on June 10, 2018, 06:00:02 PM
I've soldered up a few straight pieces of track and lashed up a temporary test track on a bit of shelving. At the moment I'm having to change the polarity of the frog using some crocodile clips but some test locomotives have run through the turnout under power!

Here is the proof...



While not in the video, a Dapol valanced A4 has also been tested without incident. I think there might be some mileage in hand building the fiddle yard track...  :hmmm:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Roy L S on June 10, 2018, 07:13:14 PM
Hi Steve

Really impressed, the point works perfectly! A great solution for Hadley Wood's Fiddle Yard, I'm even encouraged to have a go myself!

Roy
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on June 10, 2018, 08:39:31 PM
Hi Steve

Really impressed, the point works perfectly! A great solution for Hadley Wood's Fiddle Yard, I'm even encouraged to have a go myself!

Roy


Thanks Roy, believe it or not the most troublesome area is one of the straights as it isn't quite level. This causes occasional stalling on the Jinty but no problem for larger locomotives. The turnout itself is great with nothing stalling on it at all so far. :)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Newportnobby on June 10, 2018, 09:15:10 PM

Have a go, you may well (like I have) surprise yourself.

Doubt it. One of my school reports read "his work turned out to the standard I anticipated" :confused2: :'(
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on June 11, 2018, 09:05:25 AM
Doubt it. One of my school reports read "his work turned out to the standard I anticipated" :confused2: :'(

That's no necessarily a bad thing Mick, the standard anticipated could have been very high!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Bealman on June 11, 2018, 09:16:05 AM
My 1965 report said "Mathematics is not his best subject"

Went on to become a physics teacher, so the young Beatles fan that he was probably didn't know much more than me at the time  ;)

Back to the layout....

Following along with great interest!  :beers:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on June 12, 2018, 03:04:22 PM
I've built a second turnout around some other jobs on the go today.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/66/213-120618145735.jpeg)

This time I printed off a second copy of the plan which was then stuck to some 0.5mm thick cardboard. I then cut out some crude disposable jigs of the frog and angles for the check rails from this. Excluding the time taken make the jigs, the turnout was constructed in under two hours this time.

Now if I can just make a double slip that works, I'll be using this method for the fiddle yard!  :o
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on June 12, 2018, 09:03:27 PM
Ok so I've decided to try and tackle the double slip. This is the progress after a couple of hours this evening.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/66/213-120618202428.jpeg)

There is still a bit still to do but it is looking promising at the moment. I haven't thought about how to isolate the various sections, I just want to be able to free wheel some wagons though this one to prove it works.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Roy L S on June 12, 2018, 10:54:01 PM
Terrific work Steve, you certainly are bringing this whole concept on in leaps and bounds!

Roy
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: kirky on June 12, 2018, 11:00:13 PM
Thank You is locked
Why?

Thankyou btw.

Kirky
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on June 12, 2018, 11:01:38 PM
Thanks Roy,

If I get the double slip finished (and working) I'll bring it with me on Saturday for you to have a look at.

At two hours invested in it so far, it isn't quick but it is cheaper that the rtr alternative! :)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on June 12, 2018, 11:02:42 PM
Thank You is locked
Why?

Thankyou btw.

Kirky

I don't know and can't seem to be able to unlock it!

Mick, can you help please?
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: kirky on June 12, 2018, 11:48:58 PM
Thanks Roy,

If I get the double slip finished (and working) I'll bring it with me on Saturday for you to have a look at.

At two hours invested in it so far, it isn't quick but it is cheaper that the rtr alternative! :)
Thats really interesting.
In another thread we've been discussing finer standards. I hadnt actually considered that cost could be an issue. And if you can knock out a point in a couple of hours thats about the same as a Finetrax point I think.
However, I really like your points Steve. I'm certainly considering moving over to a finer standard and I was thinking of using peco points in the fiddle yard, but this has got me thinking that a hand built fiddle yard maybe the way to go.
Needlesstosay, I'm impressed.

cheers
Kirky
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Newportnobby on June 13, 2018, 09:47:39 AM
Thank You is locked
Why?

Thankyou btw.

Kirky

I don't know and can't seem to be able to unlock it!

Mick, can you help please?

Unlocked. Someone must have hit the 'Lock Thank Yous' button in error.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Bealman on June 13, 2018, 10:27:21 AM
Could have been me...

I have a reputation for it - especially on me phone!

If it was, sorry!  :-[
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on June 13, 2018, 12:01:41 PM
Thats really interesting.
In another thread we've been discussing finer standards. I hadnt actually considered that cost could be an issue. And if you can knock out a point in a couple of hours thats about the same as a Finetrax point I think.
However, I really like your points Steve. I'm certainly considering moving over to a finer standard and I was thinking of using peco points in the fiddle yard, but this has got me thinking that a hand built fiddle yard maybe the way to go.
Needlesstosay, I'm impressed.


Actually the cost is one of the driving factors for me (being of extremely limited funds at the moment) along with the desire to get smoother running - although not going to anywhere near the lengths that Richard (Belstone) is pursuing (isn't his work fantastic!). The other factor is having something that (hopefully) will be easier to match up the Finetrax in the scenic section to. That said there is a c. 0.3mm difference in the height to sort out.

I've finished my first attempt at the double slip which is pictured with the earlier second attempt at a turnout.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/66/213-130618114701.jpeg)

It does work but could possibly benefit from some gauge widening in a couple of areas. However for my first attempt at this, I'm very pleased and will hopefully only get better with practice. I didn't used the rail filing jig either but wish I had now as the blades don't make contact as well as the turnout; I might remake these later. The tiebars are very stiff which isn't surprising as they've got four short blades attached to them! 

Hattons is listing the Peco code 55 double slip at £38, mine cost considerably less but took three and a half hours to build. Given that I need several of these for the fiddle yard, it makes sense to me to build them rather than pay a lot of money!
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on June 13, 2018, 12:02:46 PM
Unlocked. Someone must have hit the 'Lock Thank Yous' button in error.

Thanks Mick, I'm pretty sure it wasn't me...

Could have been me...

I have a reputation for it - especially on me phone!

If it was, sorry!  :-[

Thanks Bealman, I'm sure it wasn't you. :)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: kirky on June 13, 2018, 04:43:06 PM

Actually the cost is one of the driving factors for me (being of extremely limited funds at the moment) along with the desire to get smoother running - although not going to anywhere near the lengths that Richard (Belstone) is pursuing (isn't his work fantastic!). The other factor is having something that (hopefully) will be easier to match up the Finetrax in the scenic section to. That said there is a c. 0.3mm difference in the height to sort out.

I've finished my first attempt at the double slip which is pictured with the earlier second attempt at a turnout.

Steve, you are clearly not looking at this objectively. Your point work is easily good enough for the viewable side of things. You might need a couple more sleepers though! :D

As I said on @belstone (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=2569) 's thread earlier, all this handbuilding of points is giving me itchy fingers. I really want to get started on mine. Unfortunately I've only got a month to get Northallerton ready for RailexNE.
Thanks for sharing your work Steve, most appreciated.
cheers
Kirky
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on June 13, 2018, 06:11:10 PM
Steve, you are clearly not looking at this objectively. Your point work is easily good enough for the viewable side of things. You might need a couple more sleepers though! :D


Thanks Kirky, but it really isn't. It has too many solder blobs for use in the scenic section (especially the double slip!) and it is missing the chairs for the rails which I notice on Finetrax.

As I said on @belstone ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=2569[/url]) 's thread earlier, all this handbuilding of points is giving me itchy fingers. I really want to get started on mine. Unfortunately I've only got a month to get Northallerton ready for RailexNE.


Go for it! Until five days ago I'd never tried to solder up cooper clad track, although I did have some experience having built five Finetrax point kits. Even without a roller gauge (just a ruler and some calipers in my case), it really isn't as difficult as it looks but a plan of the piece of track is essential.

Thanks for sharing your work Steve, most appreciated.


No problem, I'm glad someone is enjoying my bodging (I'm sure more experience people are holding their heads in their hands regarding my methods!).
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: JohnBS on June 22, 2018, 10:35:17 PM
Steve,
A lovely project and a brilliant choice of prototype - two tunnels sufficiently close together to avoid any linear compression. It reminds me of the initial design stage of Copenhagen Fields, where we were looking for the urban equivalent!
I admire your courage in going over to Finetrax and scratch-building in the fiddle yard. I had too much invested in the way of rolling stock to go down the 2mm Fine Scale route when I started re-making Totnes fifteen years ago and there was no compatible alternative available in N-gauge, other than Peco code 55. Still, with careful (very fine) ballasting, it is only the wide flange ways that give the game away.
I very much look forward to seeing your progress.
Best wishes,
John
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on June 22, 2018, 11:13:53 PM
Thank you John, Totnes and Copenhagen Fields are two of my biggest inspirations and the types of layout I would've to emulate (albeit on a much smaller scale) with Hadley Wood - both a very high standard to aim for, I'll admit. The layout will eventually occupy the biggest footprint I can manage at 12' by 3' - as you said, the location lends itself well to a 'smaller' prototype based layout.

Much as you found, I've invested too much into my N Gauge stock to seriously consider starting again in fine scale and I'm of extremely limited means at the moment. Costs are one of the biggest reasons why I'm now experimenting with scratch building my own track. Considering the complexity of what I'm trying to achieve with the fiddle yard, the total cost to do this with Peco was eye watering! At the moment, I'm struggling to make a reliable double slip (one of many) but I think I've come up with a viable solution following some inspiration from Tomix's solution.

I can't believe that this topic has reach page five and I've not even made the baseboards yet! Is this a sign that I post too much? I'll get building soon but, as this is going to be a long term layout, who is in a rush?
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Train Waiting on June 23, 2018, 08:30:02 AM
I can't believe that this topic has reach page five and I've not even made the baseboards yet! Is this a sign that I post too much? I'll get building soon but, as this is going to be a long term layout, who is in a rush?

No!  It is a sign of careful planning and preparation work and other Forum members' interest in this super project.

Please keep the posts coming...

John
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on June 23, 2018, 12:25:39 PM
Thanks John (Train Waiting),

I'm not sure that careful planning and preparation is really my area of expertise! I sometimes wonder if I should post or not so thank you for the encouragement.

I've been working on and off on the key to the fiddle yard, a scissor crossing incorporating two double slips. I will need one of these at both ends of the fiddle yard so that any train can access any road from either running line in the shortest possible space.

Up until now the problem has been the lack of spring in the four blades that should be attached to each tie bar - making it very hard to manually move the blades. As hinging the blades did not seem appealing, I needed another method to gain flexibility. I've been pondering this problem for the last week or so in between getting on with other things until a possible solution presented itself in the form of a Tomix double slip. The Tomix produce only uses the other two blades at each end, relying on the design of the center section to guide stock through the slip. With generous use of check rails, I've come up with something similar which stock seems to negotiate reliably.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/66/213-230618121130.jpeg)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/66/213-230618121202.jpeg)

As can be seen from the close up there are only two blades at each end. The blades just make contact with the check rails allowing the flanges of the outer wheel sets to be guided through the curved section (the blade forming a partial check rail when in the open position). It was still a bit of a faff to make up but not as time consuming as trying to get four blades on each tie bar to work! This is far from prototypical but as this is for the fiddle yard, I don't see this as being a problem if it works.

I've got the other double slip to make up at some point (and electrically isolating the various sections) and then I'll rig up some method of testing it under power to see how it really performs.

Just to note that I'm aware that the upper part of the existing tie bars will need trimming to allow room for the next set to be installed!  :D
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Newportnobby on June 23, 2018, 12:55:39 PM
Oh my goodness :goggleeyes:
That's a remarkable bit of work, Steve.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: kirky on June 23, 2018, 02:25:16 PM
ver very impressive Steve.
Really it looks excellent. If you can get smooth running through the slip and scissors you must have cracked hand built track. Just brilliant.

cheers
Kirky
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Ditape on June 23, 2018, 02:34:55 PM
That looks great, well beyond my soldering skills and my patience . :greatwork: :wonderfulmodelling:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: RailGooner on June 23, 2018, 02:37:04 PM
 :goggleeyes:

 :greatwork:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on June 23, 2018, 07:18:58 PM
Thank you guys,

Really it looks excellent. If you can get smooth running through the slip and scissors you must have cracked hand built track. Just brilliant.

Running is smooth through the points and diamond but ever so slight catching still on on of the slip blades, I'll get there... I hope!  :smiley-laughing:

That looks great, well beyond my soldering skills and my patience . :greatwork: :wonderfulmodelling:

Thanks Ditape. In terms of soldering this is pretty much the same as soldering electrical components. In fact I've used electrical solder throughout on these bits of track as it doesn't flow as well as Carrs 145 degree modellers solder. The only additional bit I've done is to place a small amount of Frys flux paste onto each sleeper (again, other than the liquid phosphoric acid I use for building kits). The only difficult bit is to stay awake while doing repetitive soldering! The last turnout I constructed (before trying the super crossover) took about two hours to build and I think that, with practice, I can get this down to around one hour per standard turnout...

The real benefit to me is the cost. The super crossover has consumed quite a bit on my code 40 rails (partly due to scrapping so many attempts at the blades!) but has still come out at around £7.50 worth of materials used. When you consider that Hattons is listing a code 55 small turnout at £9.50 and a double slip at £37, you can see the cost savings if you can afford the time.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Milton Rail on June 24, 2018, 08:01:33 AM
Super work Steve, made me gulp when I saw the complexity of that double double slip!

..... I had been playing around with AnyRail to see if I could recreate the Gleneagles junction with code 55 ... could just about do it, but your thread has got me wondering about doing with FineTrax.......
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: belstone on June 24, 2018, 08:30:29 AM
That crossover is a remarkable piece of trackwork, although wiring it up should be fun. If the rest of Hadley Wood shows anything like this level of commitment it is going to be a legendary layout.

Richard
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on June 27, 2018, 06:48:01 PM
Thank you both, I hope that Hadley Wood lives up to belstone's expectations now!  :goggleeyes:  :doh:

I've managed to get both double slips working. In the end I did add the inner blades but only fixed them to the tie bar and left them floating, but well supported, at the other end. This allows the tie bar to move freely and seems to work well.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/67/213-270618184331.jpeg)

I've still got to work out where I'm cutting through the rails to isolate it but I couldn't resist posing my newest bit of motive power on it.  :D

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/67/213-270618184411.jpeg)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Caz on June 27, 2018, 07:27:52 PM
Beautiful piece of trackwork Steve, sorting out how to isolate it is another thing altogether!

Reminds me of many, many years ago when my brother wanted to recreate Barnstaple Junction in N and volunteered me to do the soldering as at the time I worked in an electronics factory soldering up pcb's part time.  We eventually got it to work but it took quite a while to sort out.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/be/Barnstaple_Junction_railway_station_1972067_31fed26e.jpg)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on June 28, 2018, 10:41:28 AM
Beautiful piece of trackwork Steve, sorting out how to isolate it is another thing altogether!

Reminds me of many, many years ago when my brother wanted to recreate Barnstaple Junction in N and volunteered me to do the soldering as at the time I worked in an electronics factory soldering up pcb's part time.  We eventually got it to work but it took quite a while to sort out.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/be/Barnstaple_Junction_railway_station_1972067_31fed26e.jpg)

Thanks Caz,

Wow, that's a complex bit of track work and something I'm grateful that I'll not have to try and copy. Well done for getting it working on the layout!
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on September 09, 2018, 04:27:18 PM
There hasn't been a lot of progress on Hadley Wood recently. However, at TINGS yesterday RoyLS pointed out that N Brass are now selling roller gauges for Code 40 rail and promptly purchased some and gave them to me (thank you so much Roy).

Therefore I thought that I should try them out and spent this afternoon producing this pair of turnouts.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/68/213-090918162121.jpeg)

Despite the photograph, I can confirm that the gauge does not narrow towards the top of the turnouts - it is a trick of perspective. I found that the check rails ended up being slightly tight for me Peco test wagon (still fitted with Peco plastic wheels as I have a lot of these and rewheeling will take some time) but it was easy to ease the clearances by squeezing a piece of 1mm thick cardboard between one of the check rails and the main rail and reintroducing the soldering iron to move the check rail ever so slightly.

Overall, I'm impressed with the roller gauges and have found that they certainly make accurate track building easier compared to my previous cardboard template method.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: paulprice on September 09, 2018, 11:31:42 PM
Steve you crafty little Squirrel how come I just found out about this now :(  :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on September 10, 2018, 06:28:59 AM
Steve you crafty little Squirrel how come I just found out about this now :(  :'( :'( :'(

You didn't look Paul. Besides, I had to find out about your layouts (now incarcerated in train prison  :( ) myself.  :P
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Train Waiting on September 10, 2018, 09:24:42 AM
The pair of turnouts are simply superb work, Steve.

Congratulations.

John
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: DCCDave on September 10, 2018, 02:19:37 PM
([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/66/213-230618121130.jpeg[/url])

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/66/213-230618121202.jpeg[/url])


Just like to add my well done, that's an amazingly good piece of track work their Steve.

Cheers
Dave
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: paulprice on September 10, 2018, 05:26:56 PM
Steve you crafty little Squirrel how come I just found out about this now :(  :'( :'( :'(

You didn't look Paul. Besides, I had to find out about your layouts (now incarcerated in train prison  :( ) myself.  :P

That's no excuse  :P
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Train Waiting on September 14, 2018, 09:18:57 AM
Steve

I had a business trip up to town this week and passed through Hadley Wood on the Up Fast as I have done very many times before.

But this time I was particularly fortunate as the HST was severely checked by signals* and I obtained a really good impression of how the station looks now.  I think your model will be most attractive and of considerable historical interest as it is difficult to imagine the former layout at this location.

*It felt to me like the driver was sighting the signals at yellow but passing them at double yellow: good work.

All the best.

John
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on September 14, 2018, 09:51:26 AM
Thanks John,

Occasionally a signal check can be a good thing!

Hadley Wood has changed a bit since the 1930's hasn't it. From the old station, only the original two flights of stairs to street level remain. To the north and south the tunnel portholes are the original on (I think) the down lines but have been modified to accommodate the 'new' bores when quadrupling work began in the 1950's. The 'goods yard' (a somewhat grand title for the two sidings and headshunt) disappeared sometime shortly after the war and the station building and platform shelters have long since been demolished. At street level the news isn't much better with the old railway tavern and the original parade of shops having made way for a 1970's style set of buildings but most of the dwellings still remain.

Yes, Hadley Wood is a very different area today than it was 80 years ago!  A shame as go a little way to Oakley Park and most of the original wooden station and platform buildings are still there!

Will my version of Hadley Wood be of historical interest as I'm invoking a slight bit of modeller's licence and retaining the crossing points at the south end of the platform for operation interest (and the fact I'd already built the appropriate Finetrax kit by the time I found this out!). This in turn will necessitate the retention of the signal (a GNR somersault! :goggleeyes:) that was mounted on the north side of the road bridge that controlled trains backing up from the down line to the up to access the goods sidings. The signal appears to have been removed during the re-signalling work carried out in 1932 when Hadley Wood's box lost day to day control of that section of line (but was still used if the goods sidings needed to be accessed) while the crossover was removed sometime between 1932 and 1937. As I'm planning to run locomotives and stock covering nominally the 1930-39 period, neither the pre or post 1932 layout is going to strictly accurate but will allow me to run some locomotives that had been withdrawn by 1937.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: sp1 on September 14, 2018, 10:55:56 AM
There hasn't been a lot of progress on Hadley Wood recently. However, at TINGS yesterday RoyLS pointed out that N Brass are now selling roller gauges for Code 40 rail and promptly purchased some and gave them to me (thank you so much Roy).

Therefore I thought that I should try them out and spent this afternoon producing this pair of turnouts.

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/68/213-090918162121.jpeg[/url])

Despite the photograph, I can confirm that the gauge does not narrow towards the top of the turnouts - it is a trick of perspective. I found that the check rails ended up being slightly tight for me Peco test wagon (still fitted with Peco plastic wheels as I have a lot of these and rewheeling will take some time) but it was easy to ease the clearances by squeezing a piece of 1mm thick cardboard between one of the check rails and the main rail and reintroducing the soldering iron to move the check rail ever so slightly.

Overall, I'm impressed with the roller gauges and have found that they certainly make accurate track building easier compared to my previous cardboard template method.

Ah....that’s the source of the roller gauges mentioned on a couple of other threads - thank you!
Incidentally, is there another source of code 40 rail and suitable copper clad sleepers other than the 2mmFS Society?
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on September 14, 2018, 12:14:49 PM
Ah....that’s the source of the roller gauges mentioned on a couple of other threads - thank you!
Incidentally, is there another source of code 40 rail and suitable copper clad sleepers other than the 2mmFS Society?

Hi there,

Sorry, yes the roller gauges are available via N Brass but make sure you order the ones for code 40 rail! Finetrax supplies code 40 rail but not copper clad sleepers and, to the best of my knowledge, the 2mm Association is the only source of these. Membership is only £16 per year though and it opens up access to a whole host of other goodies - including a few plastic wagon bodies that aren't available anywhere else.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: sp1 on September 14, 2018, 12:59:09 PM
Thank you - very useful.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Train Waiting on September 15, 2018, 08:11:38 PM
Will my version of Hadley Wood be of historical interest as I'm invoking a slight bit of modeller's licence and retaining the crossing points at the south end of the platform for operation interest (and the fact I'd already built the appropriate Finetrax kit by the time I found this out!). This in turn will necessitate the retention of the signal (a GNR somersault! :goggleeyes:) that was mounted on the north side of the road bridge that controlled trains backing up from the down line to the up to access the goods sidings. The signal appears to have been removed during the re-signalling work carried out in 1932 when Hadley Wood's box lost day to day control of that section of line (but was still used if the goods sidings needed to be accessed) while the crossover was removed sometime between 1932 and 1937. As I'm planning to run locomotives and stock covering nominally the 1930-39 period, neither the pre or post 1932 layout is going to strictly accurate but will allow me to run some locomotives that had been withdrawn by 1937.

Steve,

I'd say yes, it will be of historical interest for the people who live there now who are not railway engineers or specialist historians.  I expect that's most of the good folk of Hadley Wood and surrounding district.  And a note to explain the crossover and ex-GNR somersault signal will keep the specialists happy.  Well most of them!  Will you be able to take Hadley Wood to Hadley Wood?

This is a super project and your locomotives for it are simply wonderful.  I like your time period as well.  For my own ham-fisted British 'N' gauge modelling being done in ex-NBR territory (not to be mentioned alongside your marvellous work of course), I have taken Hogmanay 1938 as my normal cut-off date.

Lang may yer lum reek!

John

Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on September 15, 2018, 09:44:10 PM
Hi John,

Thank you for your encouragement. Would I be able to take Hadley Wood to Hadley Wood? Funnily enough, I was asked this question by a gentleman who I was referred to by the Hadley Wood Association when I enquired about the historical section on their site. He was most kind and helpful, providing many photographs and historical information (or where to obtain it) and even offered to meet me at the station for a site visit (still to be arranged) earlier this year - my sixth sense is telling me that you might already know this...  :hmmm:

When it has been built, I would be honoured to be able to show the layout at Hadley Wood, even if it isn't quite 100% historically accurate.

The Pre-war NBR area would be an interesting challenge. I do quite like the lines of the J36. A friend gave me an old white metal body the other day that, from a casual glance, looks a bit like a J88.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Train Waiting on September 16, 2018, 09:04:07 AM
Many thanks, Steve.

That's all splendid stuff.

Very sorry, though, your sixth sense is not quite right on this occasion! 

I didn't know of your useful discussions with the Hadley Wood Association (I didn't even know of the association, but it sounds a jolly good thing [a bit of civic pride goes a long way...]).

It just seemed to me that the people living there might be interested to see what their station looked like pre-War.

If anything put the thought in my head it was probably seeing an 'N' gauge model of Bude station in the museum there a few years ago and thinking what a good idea that was.


With all good wishes.

John
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on September 16, 2018, 09:23:00 AM
Many thanks, Steve.

That's all splendid stuff.

Very sorry, though, your sixth sense is not quite right on this occasion! 

I didn't know of your useful discussions with the Hadley Wood Association (I didn't even know of the association, but it sounds a jolly good thing [a bit of civic pride goes a long way...]).

It just seemed to me that the people living there might be interested to see what their station looked like pre-War.

If anything put the thought in my head it was probably seeing an 'N' gauge model of Bude station in the museum there a few years ago and thinking what a good idea that was.


With all good wishes.

John

That's a shame as it would have been a lovely coincidence. My contact via the Hadley Wood Association also goes by the name of John and has made several very similar comments hence my wondering. The other John shares your view that the layout would be of interest to the locals and is very keen to have it displayed one evening and some kind of talk prepared.

However, my ultimate plan (once the current plan is finally finished and I've acquired a bit more room!) would be to incorporate Hadley Wood with a bit northern end of that section of line and a representation of Hitchin on the other side of the room - no museums in my layout's foreseeable future! Hitchin would've been my first choice for a model but I'd need around 20 feet of space to do it justice! It is also somewhat more complicated in its track plan than Hadley Wood.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on October 20, 2018, 01:07:21 PM
Apologies to those who have been following my workbench thread. Not much to report on Hadley Wood but with luck I should finally have the baseboards but the end of the year. Following my recent experience operating Vale of Oxbury at The Great Electric Train Show (thanks again Carl), I've been convinced that light weight laser cut boards are the way to go. Therefore I'll be ordering three 120cm by 90cm plywood boards just as soon as funds allow - hopefully the slightly smaller than intended size won't require any major redesign work.

In the meantime I've been busying myself with some commission work and building this for Hadley Wood.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/70/213-191018185109.jpeg)

A N Gauge C1 Atlantic 3D printed using a Dapol Hall fitted with Britannia driving wheels and a whole host of other spare bits and pieces. The C1s were very much still hard at work on the ECML in the 1930s with several members of the class still being shedded in the London area. This one will end up being 4452 which gained some minor fame when it deputised for a failed A4 (actually it replaced an NER Atlantic which had replaced the A4!) on the Silver Jubilee service in the summer of 1936 - one of two C1s recorded as having done so. Originally, I was going to model the other one as there is a photograph recording that event. However it also reveals that it was a snowy day and, as I'd like to model the summertime, 4452 will have to do. There is also a picture of the loco hauling a Tourist set so apparently a particularly useful prototype to model. :)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on November 01, 2018, 06:28:36 PM
The first proper milestone in the construction of Hadley Wood has been reached today when this showed up a couple of weeks early.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/70/213-011118181751.jpeg)

Three 120cm by 90cm laser cut baseboards from Grainge and Hodder. Originally, I wasn't going to use laser cut boards and make up six smaller boards so that the fiddle yard could be separated from the scenic side. However, talking with Carl and helping with his Vale of Oxbury layout a few weeks ago convinced me that laser cut boards would be by far the easiest option.

Anyway, a few hours this afternoon saw the first of the boards put together.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/70/213-011118181836.jpeg)

The glue isn't set yet but it is already rigid, lightweight for its size and, most importantly, square. I'll be sanding the tops of the boards before sealing them as I'd like the layout to be portable and maybe go out to an exhibition or two one day (I seen the results of what can happen to an unsealed board and wouldn't want it to happen to me).

Edit: I forgot to mention that the first of the two 'production' 'Super Scissor' crossings was constructed last weekend - just one more to build and I'll be able to think about laying the two basic circuits of track...

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/70/213-011118184947.jpeg)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Roy L S on November 01, 2018, 08:31:29 PM
Great work Steve, the "Super Scissors" looks magnificent!

Roy
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Newportnobby on November 01, 2018, 09:29:49 PM
Strewth, Steve! That's one helluva crossing :goggleeyes:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on November 01, 2018, 11:38:52 PM
Strewth, Steve! That's one helluva crossing :goggleeyes:

Thanks Mick

This one is the second one I've built. The prototype is a few pages back and was used to experiment to learn how to best make the ones for the layout - I think I've cracked it but the real test will be when it has been laid down. Hopefully I'll have a couple of running lines before the year is out, the rest will have to be laid as and when I have the time and funds to make it.

However arguably the biggest hurdle is now cleared.  :)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: kirky on November 02, 2018, 09:22:23 AM
Steve
That is really an amazing bit of point work you have done there.
Just remind me, where you got your track gauges from - was it Nbrass locos?

Cheers
Kirky
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on November 02, 2018, 09:32:41 AM
That is really an amazing bit of point work you have done there.
Just remind me, where you got your track gauges from - was it Nbrass locos?

Thanks Kirky,

Yes I got the gauges (actually Roy did) from Nbrass. I did build my first few points (turnouts?) using nothing more than some hand cut cardboard jigs and some crossed fingers - they turned out fine (see what I just did there?  :smiley-laughing:). One thing with the Nbrass gauges; where you have check rails you might well find that you'll have to ease one of them out a little once in place (especially if, like me, your stuck with using Peco wheels for a little while). However, being of soldered construction, this is not difficult to do - you will find just how variable the back to backs on stock (mainly Farish in my experience) can be.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: kirky on November 02, 2018, 09:38:59 AM
Thanks Steve
Thats really useful info.

Kirky
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on November 02, 2018, 10:12:12 AM
Thanks Steve
Thats really useful info.

No problem, the one jig that I would say was essential (more so than the track gauges) is a blade filing jig. Mine came from Finetrax for their 'B' series points. It's a bit battered now and needs replacing but its done well for a lot of blades and is far easier than trying the file blades by eye. My 'V' jig for the frog/common crossing is simply a piece of 0.5mm gray board cut to the correct shape - I'm still using the original and it has still got life in it yet!
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: kirky on November 02, 2018, 10:29:19 AM
Thanks again Steve.
I’ve got a finetrax blade jig!

Cheers
Kirky
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on February 18, 2019, 12:28:34 PM
It has been a little while since I last posted an update on the layout. Some bits have been happening; the boards have been assembled and sealed and I've finally built the second of the 'super slips' for the fiddle yard. With luck, track laying will finally commence sometime in the next month!

I've spent a bit of time researching the types of trains that would have run through and occasionally stopped at Hadley Wood. I've started with the passenger formations and found some very helpful advice and information from LNER Society members John Smart and Steve Banks.

Where to start with this? Well for starters, the Dapol (and Minitrix) Gresley's would only make up a very small percentage of the carriage stock - even by the late 1930's period. Much of the stock would have been pre-grouping with ex-GNR coaches dominating (with a couple of ex-NER coaches thrown in for good measure). In fact, the Dapol Gresley's would hardly been seen at all in the earlier 1932 period of the layout as they represent carriages built after 1931 - the LNER was always impoverish so newly built gangway stock would usually go to first rate formations and the displaced stock cascaded down into lesser services.

As an example, I am slowly making up a set of coaches that would have formed a (non-catering) express service between King's Cross and Cambridge. As the formation remained consistent between 1934 and 1937, it is an ideal short secondary express to model (and could be used several times during a sequence). The makeup of the train was completely ex-GNR coaches and a mix of end vestibule and non-end vestibule coaches. The oldest two coaches in the formation date back to the 1890's one of them being a non-end vestibule and the other being an end vestibule clerestory! Hardly the kind of train that you would think of as an express!

Anyway, while I've posted these on my C&W works thread, I feel that for the sake of completeness, I should be them here too.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/213-150219174159.jpeg)

This is the body for a 58' 1 1/2" Gresley Lavatory Composite Brake of 1907/8. There would be two of these coaches in the formation being the first and fifth coaches (from North to South) in the formation.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/213-150219174129.jpeg)

This one is a Howlden Lavatory Composite dating from 1898. This is the fourth coach in the formation.

The clerestory end vestibule third is the sixth coach and two ex-GN Gresley end vestibule thirds are the second and third coaches in the formation - notice how the end vestibules aren't all coupled together! I don't understand the logic of why the train was formed this way but it remained like this for at least three years! It has certainly made me have to re-evaluate my thoughts on what the majority of LNER passenger secondary services were really like - even many of the main expresses were still made up of pre-grouping stock (albeit generally later builds than described above).

Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: chrispearce on February 18, 2019, 12:40:07 PM
Oh, to own a 3D Printer. It must be great to design and produce your own bespoke models. The possibilities must be endless!

With one of those I could rule the earth...……………………………….. >:D

Or just a highly individual model railway.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on February 18, 2019, 01:17:17 PM
Oh, to own a 3D Printer. It must be great to design and produce your own bespoke models. The possibilities must be endless!

With one of those I could rule the earth...……………………………….. >:D

Or just a highly individual model railway.

You don't need to own a 3D printer, just be able to use (or learn) a CAD programme. There are 3D printing companies out there who will print your design. Ok, this can be a little pricey sometimes but you don't have the hassle of purchasing/setting up/maintaining/servicing a printer.  ;)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: chrispearce on February 18, 2019, 04:17:33 PM
Oh, to own a 3D Printer. It must be great to design and produce your own bespoke models. The possibilities must be endless!

With one of those I could rule the earth...……………………………….. >:D

Or just a highly individual model railway.

You don't need to own a 3D printer, just be able to use (or learn) a CAD programme. There are 3D printing companies out there who will print your design. Ok, this can be a little pricey sometimes but you don't have the hassle of purchasing/setting up/maintaining/servicing a printer.  ;)

Thanks Atso. Interesting thought. Just as a theoretical exercise what is your view on producing something like an LSWR/SR Beattie 2-4-0 Well Tank? I merely ask because of your experience and there are a few people on the NGF who, I am sure, would take a lot of interest in such a model. I think a chassis may pose a challenge though. Even a butchered and reversed Dapol 14xx might not be much of a success.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on February 18, 2019, 05:04:12 PM
Thanks Atso. Interesting thought. Just as a theoretical exercise what is your view on producing something like an LSWR/SR Beattie 2-4-0 Well Tank? I merely ask because of your experience and there are a few people on the NGF who, I am sure, would take a lot of interest in such a model. I think a chassis may pose a challenge though. Even a butchered and reversed Dapol 14xx might not be much of a success.

From a CAD point of view, the body shouldn't be anymore difficult than any other locomotive.

The first issue, as you've already identified, would be the chassis. You're right than the 14xx chassis wouldn't be a success - without some major surgery that is. The motor is encased within the chassis block which is far too large to fit within the boiler of the well tank. At 7'4 the coupled wheelbase of the 14xx isn't too bad compared to the Beattie's 7' but if it were me, I'd be thinking about chopping up a Farish or Dapol pannier chassis, fitting larger wheels and maybe replacing the motor with a 6mm Nigel Lawton one.

The next hurdle to overcome would be weight; The well tank is truly tiny and there really isn't a lot of room to add any weight. This is where you'd have to be asking if an etched metal body would be a better option - a heavier material and thin sheet material which will provide more room for weight to be added over the thicker walls of a 3D print. By this point, would it be worth building an etched chassis to scale dimensions and filling that with weight as well?

I think that the well tank presents some 'interesting' challenges. That's not to say that it can't be done, a 2mm Finescale layout I know of has three of them (I believe with hand made motors too) and they work beautify but probably beyond my current ability to replicate. 

 
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: martyn on February 18, 2019, 05:26:13 PM
Hello again Steve;

The use of pre-grouping stock on the LNER section even lasted well into BR days, as I know you will be aware; I have a photo of an ex GER Restaurant car being added to a Cambridge Race special at Liverpool St in 1959, and somewhere I've photos of ex GER corridor stock and even NER clerestories included in cross country trains/stoppers also well into the 50's. The ex GER stock was painted a 'teak' colour, not with false scumbling to represent teak panels, but just plain paint; it may have been the underframe/wheel paint that the LNER used? Many years ago, I added beading to a Farish corridor coach, and painted it teak; it wasn't that close to an ex GER coach, but it looked the part in a secondary train, and it did get comments of 'I never knew BR did that' at a couple of exhibitions.

Anyway, congratulations again on some excellent work.

Martyn

Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on February 18, 2019, 08:05:36 PM
Hello again Steve;

The use of pre-grouping stock on the LNER section even lasted well into BR days, as I know you will be aware; I have a photo of an ex GER Restaurant car being added to a Cambridge Race special at Liverpool St in 1959, and somewhere I've photos of ex GER corridor stock and even NER clerestories included in cross country trains/stoppers also well into the 50's. The ex GER stock was painted a 'teak' colour, not with false scumbling to represent teak panels, but just plain paint; it may have been the underframe/wheel paint that the LNER used? Many years ago, I added beading to a Farish corridor coach, and painted it teak; it wasn't that close to an ex GER coach, but it looked the part in a secondary train, and it did get comments of 'I never knew BR did that' at a couple of exhibitions.

Anyway, congratulations again on some excellent work.

Martyn

Thanks Martyn.

Yes, the pre-grouping stock lasted a long time, didn't it! I believe the last Howlden non-end vestibule didn't go out of revenue earning service until the mid 1950's and it wasn't until the early 1960's that the last GNR built Gresley stock finally went out of service. I do like the look of the ex-GER stock but I am yet to find a GN working with any incorporated into it. NER on the other hand is a different matter as several items of stock (mainly thirds) got cascaded down into GN secondary services.

Painting stock in plain 'teak' paint was fairly common. Apparently, if bleaching couldn't restore (or rather lighten) the natural colour of the wood, even teak stock was treated like this but only on very old coaches. In these cases no attempt to represent the training was attempted, yet more modern Gresley steel stock was grained and pre-war, the beading would be carefully represented - even down to shading it to give the impression of three dimensions!
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: paulprice on February 18, 2019, 08:08:35 PM
What you really need is some decent Stanier stock :) just like a proper railway has :)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on February 18, 2019, 08:13:30 PM
What you really need is some decent Stanier stock :) just like a proper railway has :)

Period, two or three?
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Train Waiting on February 18, 2019, 08:17:12 PM
Great to see an update on Hadley Wood, Steve.

Thank you very much.

John
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: paulprice on February 18, 2019, 08:23:32 PM
What you really need is some decent Stanier stock :) just like a proper railway has :)

Period, two or three?

Period Three I think
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on February 18, 2019, 08:32:38 PM

Period Three I think

Flush sided stock, minimal lining.  :'(

I think the LMS's periods one and two stock was more characteristic with the beading and lining. Not wrong with a maroon coach in my opinion and I do have an opportunity to model a very few examples on Hadley Wood due to limited running rights for the LMS North London line suburban service to Potters Bar. However, that's going to depend on how much fiddle yard space I have left!
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: paulprice on February 18, 2019, 08:35:03 PM

Period Three I think

Flush sided stock, minimal lining.  :'(

I think the LMS's periods one and two stock was more characteristic with the beading and lining. Not wrong with a maroon coach in my opinion and I do have an opportunity to model a very few examples on Hadley Wood due to limited running rights for the LMS North London line suburban service to Potters Bar. However, that's going to depend on how much fiddle yard space I have left!

I love the earlier period stuff, but I an on a lining diet
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: martyn on February 18, 2019, 08:35:50 PM
Steve;

I don't know the ex GNR mainline geography very well, but would it have been possible for Cambridge line (or, exceptionally, a Peterborough stopper) to have had ex GER stock?

A quick look through albums suggest there was a purge of GER stock around 1958, both corridor and non-corridor stock, and there seem to be few, if any, photos into the 60s.

Martyn
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Innovationgame on February 18, 2019, 08:37:38 PM
Yes, the pre-grouping stock lasted a long time, didn't it!
Given that the average stock life was between 30 and 40 years and the time lapse between grouping and nationalisation was 25 years, I expect that there was legacy stock from pre-grouping handed over to BR by all of the Big Four.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: martyn on February 18, 2019, 08:57:10 PM
Reply #121, Innovation game;

Yes, I think that's perfectly true, but due to the LNER's financial state during most of its existence, I think it likely-though I haven't proof-that a higher proportion of pre-grouping stock was used by the LNER and then handed over to BR than on other regions; but I may be wrong.

martyn
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on February 18, 2019, 09:18:49 PM
Not that I've been able to find Martyn. Both the Cambridge 2.04pm and the Buffet expresses were made up of ex-GN stock. The local and outer suburban services were made of ex-GN and LNER built stock - with the very occasional ex-NER example. If there were ex-GE carriages in formations working on that section of the GNML, they don't seem to have made it down as far as Hadley Wood unfortunately.

Regarding the proportion of pre-grouping stock operated by the LNER, I've seen it suggested that between 65-75% of carriages were still of pre-grouping origins at the outbreak of war in 1939. I've found some formations containing six wheelers running out of King's Cross as late as 1938. Admittedly these are on lesser or Saturday/Sunday services (and comparatively few in number) but they would have been nearer to (or over) sixty years old by that point in time and still running on the mainline.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on February 18, 2019, 10:02:07 PM
I love the earlier period stuff, but I an on a lining diet

Then line it in the period three scheme? I think that was done once the flush sided Stanier's came out. Not my area of expertise and I'll have to model some ex-North London four wheel carriages before I have to worry able LMS bogie stock.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on February 19, 2019, 07:23:07 PM
Based on the information I've found over the last couple of weeks, I've revised the fiddle yard design for Hadley Wood.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/213-190219191637.bmp)

I've removed the turntable in preference for additional loco storage loops (middle bottom on the plan). I decided that it was probably better to have more motive power available than the ability to turn individual locomotives.

The upper fiddle yard (and top loop) has had two additional kickback sidings added - these curve around at the ends of the layout. These new sidings will hold the 'catering cores' for the expresses. The other kickback sidings in the upper section will hold through coaches, permanently coupled in three or four coach rakes. These can be assembled with the cores to provide eight variations on the GN area express theme.

ECML workings will be represented by a Scotsman set and the Queen of Scots Pullman set stored elsewhere. Each will make one working in each direction.

It all looks a bit complicated and I'll try and find some time to annotate the plan later in the week.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: paulprice on February 19, 2019, 08:46:56 PM
Based on the information I've found over the last couple of weeks, I've revised the fiddle yard design for Hadley Wood.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/213-190219191637.bmp)

I've removed the turntable in preference for additional loco storage loops (middle bottom on the plan). I decided that it was probably better to have more motive power available than the ability to turn individual locomotives.

The upper fiddle yard (and top loop) has had two additional kickback sidings added - these curve around at the ends of the layout. These new sidings will hold the 'catering cores' for the expresses. The other kickback sidings in the upper section will hold through coaches, permanently coupled in three or four coach rakes. These can be assembled with the cores to provide eight variations on the GN area express theme.

ECML workings will be represented by a Scotsman set and the Queen of Scots Pullman set stored elsewhere. Each will make one working in each direction.

It all looks a bit complicated and I'll try and find some time to annotate the plan later in the week.

Steve

Wow, it looks brilliant, when you build it can I be on the operating crew?

I will bring some open wagons, please please please
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Roy L S on February 19, 2019, 09:44:57 PM
Based on the information I've found over the last couple of weeks, I've revised the fiddle yard design for Hadley Wood.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/213-190219191637.bmp)

I've removed the turntable in preference for additional loco storage loops (middle bottom on the plan). I decided that it was probably better to have more motive power available than the ability to turn individual locomotives.

The upper fiddle yard (and top loop) has had two additional kickback sidings added - these curve around at the ends of the layout. These new sidings will hold the 'catering cores' for the expresses. The other kickback sidings in the upper section will hold through coaches, permanently coupled in three or four coach rakes. These can be assembled with the cores to provide eight variations on the GN area express theme.

ECML workings will be represented by a Scotsman set and the Queen of Scots Pullman set stored elsewhere. Each will make one working in each direction.

It all looks a bit complicated and I'll try and find some time to annotate the plan later in the week.


Hi Steve

Looks complex in the Fiddle Yard but everything is there for a reason I appreciate and you really can see why those "Super Scissors" were needed, they really do work in keeping access to the various converging routes compact - length wise especially.

Looking at the scenic side, did information come to hand that led you to dispense with the crossover between main running lines? (And apologies in advance if you have already mentioned this!!).


Regards


Roy
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on February 20, 2019, 12:14:42 AM
Hi Steve

Looks complex in the Fiddle Yard but everything is there for a reason I appreciate and you really can see why those "Super Scissors" were needed, they really do work in keeping access to the various converging routes compact - length wise especially.

Looking at the scenic side, did information come to hand that led you to dispense with the crossover between main running lines? (And apologies in advance if you have already mentioned this!!).

Hi Roy,

It is a bit complex but everything, as you say, is there for a reason. While the layout is a fraction under 12' by 3', Haldey Wood was (and is) a very busy bit of the mainline just outside of London. As a result, to represent even a fraction of the daily workings requires a lot of stock and locos as well as a bit of innovation to get everything into the fiddle yard. There will be bit of shunting to form certain trains but in this sense, that'll only make things more realistic - if only backstage. Even with all of this, I reckon, at best, I'm going to be representing no more than 5% of the daily workings for that stretch of line.

With regard to the crossing in the station, the 1935 OS map shows it in place. However, the 1932 signaling diagram from shortly after the re-signaling works suggest that it was removed. Hadley Wood's signal box was locked out after the works and was only used when access to the goods yard was required. Otherwise daily control was transferred to Greenwood. See here: https://signalbox.org/diagrams.php?id=335

The only photograph I have that clearly shows that bit of the station is from 1938 where it is clear that the crossover isn't there (the layouts operating period is c. 1932-39). As you can see from the signalling diagram, the line reduced to two lines between New Barnet and the Hadley Wood South tunnel. Given that this would have resulted in major congestion, it would make sense that the occasional pick up goods would arrive on the down line (the side of the goods sidings) and therefore, not complicate things by having to cross over (and obstruct) both running lines - the layout would suffer from the same problem.

Therefore, I have decided to ignor the OS map (apparently surveys were only done every few years) and rely on the official signalling diagram of the area instead.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on February 20, 2019, 12:21:32 AM
Wow, it looks brilliant, when you build it can I be on the operating crew?

I will bring some open wagons, please please please

Of course you can Paul. I'd be only too happy to have you come and help - I'll even throw in a free lesson as to why the LNER was better than the LMS as an added incentive to get you on board!  :smiley-laughing: :P
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: paulprice on February 20, 2019, 01:10:28 PM
Wow, it looks brilliant, when you build it can I be on the operating crew?

I will bring some open wagons, please please please

Of course you can Paul. I'd be only too happy to have you come and help - I'll even throw in a free lesson as to why the LNER was better than the LMS as an added incentive to get you on board!  :smiley-laughing: :P

I knew there would be a catch but I'm willing to make the sacrifice :)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on February 20, 2019, 03:51:56 PM
I knew there would be a catch but I'm willing to make the sacrifice :)

No catch and no sacrifice required, just the opportunity to converted to the 'correct' way of thinking.  :D :smiley-laughing: :smiley-laughing: :smiley-laughing: :P ::)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: paulprice on February 20, 2019, 04:44:48 PM
I knew there would be a catch but I'm willing to make the sacrifice :)

No catch and no sacrifice required, just the opportunity to converted to the 'correct' way of thinking.  :D :smiley-laughing: :smiley-laughing: :smiley-laughing: :P ::)

You will never turn me to the DARK side  :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on February 20, 2019, 05:00:50 PM
You will never turn me to the DARK side  :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel:

As apple green is lighter than maroon, I think you might already be on the dark side!  :P :P >:D
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: paulprice on February 20, 2019, 05:10:15 PM
You will never turn me to the DARK side  :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel:

As apple green is lighter than maroon, I think you might already be on the dark side!  :P :P >:D

I will bring order to the forum  >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on February 20, 2019, 06:28:36 PM
I will bring order to the forum  >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D

When will that be then???  :laughabovepost: :smiley-laughing: :laughabovepost: :smiley-laughing: :P
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: paulprice on February 20, 2019, 06:52:26 PM
I will bring order to the forum  >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D

When will that be then???  :laughabovepost: :smiley-laughing: :laughabovepost: :smiley-laughing: :P

I'm working on it, I'm working on it  >:D >:D
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on February 20, 2019, 10:30:13 PM
I'm working on it, I'm working on it  >:D >:D

Well, judging by the way that threads always seem to manage to go seriously off-topic when we're both involved in the discussion, I'd say you need to work harder!  :P
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: paulprice on February 20, 2019, 11:04:47 PM
I'm working on it, I'm working on it  >:D >:D

Well, judging by the way that threads always seem to manage to go seriously off-topic when we're both involved in the discussion, I'd say you need to work harder!  :P

Yes BOSS are you sure your not related to the DO ????
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on February 20, 2019, 11:12:01 PM
Yes BOSS are you sure your not related to the DO ????

Probably not, but nice to know I'm in good company!  ;)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: paulprice on February 20, 2019, 11:13:49 PM
Yes BOSS are you sure your not related to the DO ????

Probably not, but nice to know I'm in good company!  ;)

Hmmmm get back to modelling instead of picking on me  :'(
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on February 21, 2019, 06:30:10 PM
Ok, I've colour coded some of the lines in the plan.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/213-210219182322.jpeg)

-The two blue loop lines are kept free for the sorting, arrivals and departures of trains from the kickback sidings.
-The six yellow loop lines are for through running trains - three of these lines will hold multiple trains while the other three will each hold a single, longer train.
-The green loops are for loco storage.
-The red lines are clear areas for use as head shunts or holding areas for train locomotives and yard shunters.
-Everything else is the fiddle yard is devoted to train formations, part formations and odd bits of stock.

Hopefully that helps make sense of what I'm trying to achieve...  :hmmm: :hmmm:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on February 23, 2019, 05:43:50 PM
Steve - I am really enjoying the thread, just caught up with it all. Amazing all that hand built track work!

What radius are the curves on the ends of the layout (just out of interest - I have so much fun re-engineering my curves now for Dapol steamers!).

I'd love to see it when completed if you exhibit it, looks like lots of fun! How's it getting on with track laying?
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on February 23, 2019, 10:00:11 PM
Steve - I am really enjoying the thread, just caught up with it all. Amazing all that hand built track work!

What radius are the curves on the ends of the layout (just out of interest - I have so much fun re-engineering my curves now for Dapol steamers!).

I'd love to see it when completed if you exhibit it, looks like lots of fun! How's it getting on with track laying?

Thanks Darrwest, I'm glad your enjoying this.

The minimum radius is 12 inches (including the points) to play safe and give every loco and item of stock the best chance to make it around without incident.

Actual track laying (rather than just building) will hopefully start within the next month. This will obviously take a while to complete as I've got a lot more points to build - more time consuming but much, much cheaper! At the moment, as well as researching and building, trains that ran through Hadley Wood, I'm working out where I need to put isolations cuts in the rails of the two 'super scissor' crossings. Once that is done, I can start to lay the two loops that will be the heart of the layout.

All seems to be taking a long time, but I'm in no rush. Modelling an actual prototype involves a surprising amount of research, which I'm finding really enjoyable. Most certainly, it has changed some of the mis-conceptions I've held about what was happening on the LNER in the 1930's!

Is the last part of your user name part of a post code? I used to live in Houghton Regis (LU5) until a few years ago when I more back down into Hertfordshire. Such a shame they lifted the old disused branch line between Dunstable and Luton and turned it into a guided busway!
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on March 01, 2019, 09:58:12 PM
Right, this evening I finally cleared the baseboards of the rubbish that had accumulated on the, packed up some odd bits of stock and took apart the temporary Kato test track.

Following this, I started to plot out the positions of the points in the scenic area from a 1935 OS map I have as well as the positions of the 'super scissors' from the track plan. Once I done this, I got all of the track I've built to date and laid in in the approximate position they will be once fixed down.

This has been taken from the scenic side looking north towards Potters Bar.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/213-010319214124.jpeg)

While this view is looking South towards New Barnet and King's Cross.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/213-010319214101.jpeg)

The visible section of the layout between the tunnels has been reduced by 2 inches to 9'1", making it fractionally shorter than scale. However, this allows me to fit a couple of extra kickback sidings that will house portions of the GN and EC expresses that will be such a key feature of the layout.

While nothing has been fixed down, this feels like a major milestone has finally been reached in the project and this exercise has been extremely satisfying. However, it is also somewhat daunting looking at how quickly the layout has gobbled up the track I've made to date - only another 40 copper clad points to build! On the plus side, each of the points works out at around 10% of the cost of the equivalent Peco point, the layout wouldn't be financially viable if I was using Peco. 3.6 meters by 90 cm seems so small on the computer but so large when you look at it like this. There is a Gresley 61' teak on the layout - can you find it!?!  :o

I've got another five meters of Finetrax plain track to order and this will see the goods yard and non-scenic curves completed. I've decided to use Finetrax sleeper bases for all the plain track to provide some movement in the rails to allow for expansion. However, once past the curve, I'll be chopping the sleeper bases into batches of three sleepers and double spacing them to save a bit of money here - the additional code 40 rail will come from the 2mm Association as it is slightly cheaper than Finetrax.

Anyway, not a huge amount but proof that something is actually happening regarding the building of this layout! ;D
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Milton Rail on March 02, 2019, 07:18:22 AM
 :beers:

Great to see this come to life Steve
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Train Waiting on March 02, 2019, 08:47:18 AM
This looks splendid, Steve.

It's on the Down line at the north end of the station platforms!

Best wishes.

John
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on March 02, 2019, 09:18:18 AM
Thanks guys! It really is just a few bits of track laid on top of the boards at the moment but to me it is the first time I've been able to visualise how the layout will look in the real world.

I was going to solder up a couple more points today. Unfortunately, the 2mm Association sent me flat bottom rail instead of bullhead in my last order by mistake. As filing the foot off the rails isn't appealing, I've contacted the Association and requested some guidance on how to exchange these. As shame as I've got some spare Finetrax sleeper bases that I could have knocked up too but the flat bottom rail won't fit that. A setback, but only a temporary one!

John: You've found it and, amazingly, identified its location on the layout correctly! :claphappy: It really looks tiny and lost on the layout and I suspect that once the scenery is in place, you wouldn't be able to see it from that position as the bridge and station building would obscure it. Luckily it will end up in eight to fourteen carriage formations which will be a lot more prominent!  :D

While on the subject of the Down line, I've been looking over some of the recorded speeds taken by enthusiasts of the time. As the line had an up gradient as far as Potters Bar, express speeds were understandably slower on the Down line. K2/K3 haulage would typically be down to between 35-45 mph through this section while A1/A3s would be around 45-55 mph (A4s would fare better) - I'm looking for an example for the Atlantics but I suspect they'd be around the same as a K3 on a heavy train. The Up line on the other hand would see some fast running! Yet more to consider when I'm finally at the point where I can operate the layout.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Innovationgame on March 02, 2019, 10:54:11 AM
I spotted the coach, eventually.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on March 02, 2019, 10:59:07 AM
I spotted the coach, eventually.

Yes, it is difficult isn't it!  ;D I was worried that at only 3.6 meters by 90 cm (I had to order metric boards) with only 19-20 inches between the front of the board and the back scene, the layout would be too small for the kinds of trains I plan to run. I don't think I need to have worried. The fact that the distance between the tunnels is only around 24' short of scale length, the fact that a longer train will occupy around two thirds (or more!) of the scenic section is entirely prototypical for the location.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on March 08, 2019, 02:37:14 PM
Five hours work (including a stop for lunch) today has seen another four turnouts constructed for the fiddle yard.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/213-080319143535.jpeg)

Scarily, there isn't 10% of the total number of turnouts required for the fiddle yard in the above picture!
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: paulprice on March 08, 2019, 02:41:55 PM
How dare you make turnouts for your layout, when you should be building them for ME, ME, ME
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on March 08, 2019, 04:33:04 PM
How dare you make turnouts for your layout, when you should be building them for ME, ME, ME

Cross my palm with silver and I'll consider making you some.  ;)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Milton Rail on March 08, 2019, 04:36:53 PM
How dare you make turnouts for your layout, when you should be building them for ME, ME, ME

No way Mr Price... there's a queue and a wonderful LNER workhorse D49 "Morayshire" is ahead of you  :P
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: paulprice on March 08, 2019, 04:46:42 PM
How dare you make turnouts for your layout, when you should be building them for ME, ME, ME

Cross my palm with silver and I'll consider making you some.  ;)

Is the pleasure of making them for me not enough, involving money would just make it seem common :)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: paulprice on March 08, 2019, 04:47:54 PM
How dare you make turnouts for your layout, when you should be building them for ME, ME, ME

No way Mr Price... there's a queue and a wonderful LNER workhorse D49 "Morayshire" is ahead of you  :P

You don't really need the loco I bet you have more than enough already  :D
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Milton Rail on March 08, 2019, 04:53:22 PM
:)   alas, I am in the same boat as you when it comes to having enough locomotives .....  :(
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: paulprice on March 08, 2019, 05:11:50 PM
:)   alas, I am in the same boat as you when it comes to having enough locomotives .....  :(

Its a terrible curse, I am thinking of forming Locomotive Anonymous, I will still collect locomotives I will just do it under false names. :D :D
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on March 08, 2019, 07:00:37 PM
More D49s will have to wait a while - I've still got one more to build anyway! To be honest, I'm not happy with the current solution as it requires donor parts from three different locomotives. Another solution will have to be found.

I've put the latest clutch of turnouts onto the board (just loosely laid) and found that I only need another five before I can lay all eight loops and start the lines that will lead to the kickback sidings. I better start thinking about making up some more plain track (around 50 meters required!).

Oh, and Paul, you can never have enough locomotives! You know that you'll be getting another Jubilee soon - you just can't help yourself!  :smiley-laughing: :smiley-laughing:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Milton Rail on March 08, 2019, 07:19:22 PM
Its rumoured that the Queen's 2nd Instagram will be a complaint about someone having more Jubilee's than her :)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: paulprice on March 09, 2019, 01:49:29 PM
More D49s will have to wait a while - I've still got one more to build anyway! To be honest, I'm not happy with the current solution as it requires donor parts from three different locomotives. Another solution will have to be found.

I've put the latest clutch of turnouts onto the board (just loosely laid) and found that I only need another five before I can lay all eight loops and start the lines that will lead to the kickback sidings. I better start thinking about making up some more plain track (around 50 meters required!).

Oh, and Paul, you can never have enough locomotives! You know that you'll be getting another Jubilee soon - you just can't help yourself!  :smiley-laughing: :smiley-laughing:

Stop trying to get me into trouble, you forget I'm a good boy  :angel: :angel:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: paulprice on March 09, 2019, 01:50:12 PM
Its rumoured that the Queen's 2nd Instagram will be a complaint about someone having more Jubilee's than her :)

Who has more Jubilee's then ?
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Milton Rail on March 09, 2019, 01:56:56 PM
that depends ... if you use the "official" number that you tell the DO... then it's probably not you ... but if however that official number was not entirely accurate then .....  :hmmm:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: paulprice on March 09, 2019, 01:58:35 PM
that depends ... if you use the "official" number that you tell the DO... then it's probably not you ... but if however that official number was not entirely accurate then .....  :hmmm:

I only have 3  :angel: :angel: :angel:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Milton Rail on March 09, 2019, 02:03:20 PM
so it is you  :goggleeyes:  .... ER II only has two (silver & golden)  :)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: paulprice on March 09, 2019, 02:05:13 PM
so it is you  :goggleeyes:  .... ER II only has two (silver & golden)  :)

Drat I have been found out :(
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Innovationgame on March 09, 2019, 03:35:38 PM
so it is you  :goggleeyes:  .... ER II only has two (silver & golden)  :)
Actually, she has three: silver (1977), golden (1992) and diamond (2012).  Although if you take diamond in its original meaning, that won't be until 2027, when she will be 101!
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Milton Rail on March 09, 2019, 03:40:09 PM
Sorry Steve that your thread has been hi-jacked, you need to show us some more pics of delicious hand made pointwork to get the thread back on track  :)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: paulprice on March 09, 2019, 03:51:55 PM
Sorry Steve:(
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on March 11, 2019, 07:40:45 AM
Hi-jack away guys, a bit of banter never hurts.  :D
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on March 14, 2019, 06:59:37 PM
I've been spending a little time deciding how I want to do the fiddle yard. As I am cash strapped at the moment, I made the decision some time ago to scratch build all of the points for the hidden section. However, this created some issues to resolve as the copper clad points are around 0.45mm lower than Finetrax. After much thought, I decided to get some 0.6mm iron on veneer and laid this onto the bulk of the fiddle yard area today. This will be sanded back to bring the copper clad points and the Finetrax to the same height. This does mean that I have committed myself to building all of the plain track in this section out of copper clad as well.

I've not sanded the veneer back yet but I have placed most of the existing copper clad track that I've built onto boards to start getting a feel for how this will look and work.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/213-140319184808.jpeg)

In total there will be fifteen lines in the main fiddle yard section with a couple of additional kick back sidings (made from Finetrax) curving around at each end. I'd estimate that I've built around a quarter of the copper clad that is required and around half of the Finetrax. I've been fortunate that a couple of swaps with another modeller yielded another four meters of Finetrax sleeper bases and I already have rail to thread through this. This means that I probably have enough Finetrax bits now to complete the scenic track work as well as the bits that will end up leading to the fiddle yard.

It is nice to feel that the pipe dream is slowly becoming a reality and will actually be achievable! Hopefully a start will be made on actual track laying in the next couple of weeks. ;)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: paulprice on March 15, 2019, 02:12:47 PM
Its looking very professional  :D just wait until your first exhibition you will get lots of people asking to see your fiddle yard.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on March 15, 2019, 03:28:04 PM
Check out last two photos on this link - HADLEY WOOD tunnel - very atmospheric black and white steam images:
https://www.steve-banks.org/prototype-and-traffic/209-tpo-services-in-lner-and-er-days (https://www.steve-banks.org/prototype-and-traffic/209-tpo-services-in-lner-and-er-days)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on May 09, 2019, 08:32:33 PM
Belated thanks to DarrwestLU6 for the link to Steve Banks' site.

I've been asked a few times recently about progress on Hadley Wood. The truth is that other bits and pieces have gotten in the way along with days where I've not been able to do much (thankfully getting fewer in number now).

As a bit of an update, I present the sum total of the fiddle yard track built to date.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/77/213-090519202535.jpeg)

This represents almost enough track to start laying down the first few bits of the fiddle yard and around 25% of the total track required (both plain and points). Thankfully I only need two "super scissors" and I hope that they work as designed!

Hopefully I'll be able to built another three points tomorrow as well as a few more straights and start to seriously think about laying it down.  :)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Newportnobby on May 09, 2019, 09:40:24 PM
More progress in weeks than I make in years, and that's with handbuilding the track! :-[
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Milton Rail on May 13, 2019, 09:39:53 AM
thanks for the update Steve and big well done on the progress you have made, track and pointwork looking awesome
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on May 13, 2019, 05:54:00 PM
Thank you guys!  :D

Things have actually progressed a little with some of the track starting to be laid!  :bounce:

It hasn't all be plain sailing though, the "super scissor" is out! It was laid on Friday afternoon and following much testing and fettling, I decided to scrap it as it would have been too unreliable. I spent Saturday and Sunday mornings building a replacement standard scissor crossing (about five hours work) and got this in place last night. A couple of points feed it into the rest of the fiddle yard at at expense of around 10cm off the planned length of the loops.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/77/213-130519173858.jpeg)

Pictured above is the work to date, three of the points are only roughly positioned and not fixed yet. The plan is to build the entrances to the loops and kick back sidings on this board and then everything laid will be wired up and tested. This won't include any of the inner kick back sidings as the entrance to these will be on the middle board and will only be laid once the final position of the points feeding these has been established. Hopefully, the work to date starts to give an indication of just how expansive the fiddle yard will be.

Once I've finished laying this initial section, progress will slow as my father, a retired electronics engineer, is responsible for the wiring (and teaching me how it all works so I can repair it myself in the future!).

I no longer have some baseboards and bits of track, but instead I finally have the beginnings of a layout! Even better, the test wagons an coach have been successfully pushed over the sections laid so far! :D

Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on May 13, 2019, 06:25:44 PM
Awesome!
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Train Waiting on May 13, 2019, 06:36:31 PM
Excellent, Steve.

And, probably,a wise decision about the 'super scissors'.

Better, I think, to have a simpler formation.

With best wishes.

John
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on May 14, 2019, 11:23:38 AM
Awesome!

Thanks Darrwest! However, I'll try to refrain from agreeing with you until I've proven that everything actually does work as it should!  :smiley-laughing:

Excellent, Steve.

And, probably,a wise decision about the 'super scissors'.

Better, I think, to have a simpler formation.


Thanks John,

I'm in complete agreement with you, better to have that part of the formation run reliably and loose a little off the length of some formations.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Bealman on May 14, 2019, 11:27:35 AM
Incredible work. Triple  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on May 19, 2019, 12:12:25 PM
Incredible work. Triple  :thumbsup:

Thanks Bealman!  :)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on May 19, 2019, 12:18:13 PM
There has been some more progress on the first board over the last few days. The first couple of servos are in along with some of the control circuitry - this is where having a father who is a retired electronics engineer is a big help!

I've also made up some of the track for the next bit of track laying and started to size up what is required. None of the new bits have been stuck down yet and there will not be any track overhanging the board once I'm done!  :P

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/77/213-190519121303-77638463.jpeg)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/77/213-190519121304-776381496.jpeg)

The three coaches have been getting used as clearance vehicles. They've also started to give me an idea just how big the fiddle yard will end up being...  :goggleeyes:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Milton Rail on May 19, 2019, 12:21:36 PM
Looking fab .... what I'd give to have a retired electronics engineer on hand, but the advice and wisdom of the forum sages see's me through  :beers:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: crewearpley40 on May 19, 2019, 12:29:05 PM
Thats some superb trackwork and the scissor crossing. You must be pleased
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Roy L S on May 19, 2019, 02:57:33 PM
Looks superb Steve, it makes my new layout look positively amateurish by comparison. Keep the pics coming, it's inspiring stuff.

Roy
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on May 19, 2019, 10:18:33 PM
Thanks guys. I'll be very pleased once everything is working! A minor problem has been shown up this evening. Some of the point blades are a little close to the stock rail when in the open position. This is causing some occasional derailments as the flanges hit the blade and ride over it. This didn't show up while testing as separate components but with the test wagon snaking around the curves, it has become a problem.

Luckily this should be a relatively simple fix with some careful work with the soldering iron and something that can be easily avoided on the next batch of points by opening up the clearances slightly. If I get a spare hour or two tomorrow, I will fix this.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on May 19, 2019, 10:20:22 PM
Ok, a shot of the underside.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/77/213-190519220637.jpeg)

If I've understood this correctly (you wouldn't believe I got a B in Electronics at school!), at the top is the control board which has a maximum of sixteen outputs. Once programmed, this particular board will control the six servos and seven relays for the scissor crossing. The relays control the frog polarity and stand in place of micro switches - far less hassle to set up.

This is something that I will need to get a better understanding of if I am to maintain the layout in the future. Luckily, Merg (where the boards have been sourced from) are very helpful and the instructions seem to be concise and comprehensive.

With 24 sets of point blades to control on this board alone (c. 65 in total for the layout), there is still a way to go yet!
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Roy L S on May 20, 2019, 09:17:45 PM
I am again in awe! Just don't look under my baseboards Steve, you won't find anything as neat, tidy and professional as that! (Oh dear...).


Roy

Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on May 21, 2019, 04:50:21 PM
I am again in awe! Just don't look under my baseboards Steve, you won't find anything as neat, tidy and professional as that! (Oh dear...).

Thanks Roy,

I'm afraid I can't take credit for what is underneath the boards but I'm going to be having a go at the other end!  :goggleeyes:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on May 22, 2019, 07:51:19 PM
Very organised! Do you have software to do circuit diagrams and keep track of all the connections?
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on May 22, 2019, 08:02:09 PM
I just downloaded TinyCAD - haven't used it in anger yet but it was recommended by another Forum member, and was very quick to download.

Still interested what you use!
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on May 23, 2019, 12:36:53 PM
Very organised! Do you have software to do circuit diagrams and keep track of all the connections?

The circuit diagrams will likely be produced using my CAD programme, Alibre. My father is producing a "book" of everything as it is wired up.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on May 23, 2019, 12:43:29 PM
A little bits of a problem this morning. One of the servos decided to throw itself right around and broke a tie bar in the process. I've now done my first replacement of a servo and started to learn a bit about how to program them.

The relays got wired up and programmed last night (I wasn't about!) so, once the repair was made, we spent a little time this morning testing the scissor crossing.





The 4F used as a test locomotive did need a couple of the back to backs adjusted but this was done easily without having to dismantle anything. One of my A4s, Silver Fox, has also successfully traversed the crossing (again, with one tender wheelset needing a slight adjustment). Three Gresley coaches have also been tested under power but hauled by the 4F as there isn't enough track available to take them with the A4!  :doh:

Overall, I'm really happy that it seems to work.  :claphappy:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Newportnobby on May 23, 2019, 02:56:14 PM
All looks good, Houston :D
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: crewearpley40 on May 23, 2019, 03:12:17 PM
seconded
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: kirky on May 24, 2019, 08:07:54 AM
@Atso (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=213)
Steve, many thanks for sharing the video - the scissors looks brilliant.
Just wondering if the coaches are traversing the scissors in reverse? That would be a true test of workmanship!

Cheers
Kirky
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Train Waiting on May 24, 2019, 07:20:52 PM
Excellent, Steve.

Thank you very much.

You ought to be elected to the Permanent Way Institute for that S&C work.

It's maybe just me, but the test locomotive looked as if it was from the LM.  Rather you than me to explain that to Sir Nigel.

Wonderful work.

All best wishes.

John
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on May 24, 2019, 11:17:17 PM
Thank you all.

The locomotive is a 4F from the war flat train pack. I got it cheaply a few years ago when Cheltenham were selling them split from the wagons. It'll end up being a donor for an LNER loco but I'm undecided on which what yet.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on May 24, 2019, 11:19:12 PM
@Atso (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=213)
Steve, many thanks for sharing the video - the scissors looks brilliant.
Just wondering if the coaches are traversing the scissors in reverse? That would be a true test of workmanship!

Hi Kirky,

I'm happy to report that the Gresleys were successfully pushed through the scissor yesterday as well - while close coupled together. I'm still to try it with wagons though...
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: kirky on May 25, 2019, 01:58:38 PM


Hi Kirky,

I'm happy to report that the Gresleys were successfully pushed through the scissor yesterday as well - while close coupled together. I'm still to try it with wagons though...

very impressive
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: chrispearce on May 26, 2019, 03:54:47 PM
A triumph! You must get a great feeling knowing you have built that crossing yourself. Works beautifully.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on June 05, 2019, 05:51:04 PM
As it is my birthday soon, I thought I'd tread myself to a little something for the layout. They're not locos, stock or scenic but hopefully they will sort of be seen eventually.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/78/213-050619174311.jpeg)

What is pictured are the Working Timetables for the King's X - Doncaster district and London/branches suburban for 1937 and 1933 respectively. These came from the LNER Society (which I will join later this year) and are a treasure trove of information. They compliment the 1937 GNML Carriage Working Book I have nicely, and I am able to match up many of the passenger formations with their approximate times at (or through) Hadley Wood. The Working Timetables also provide timings for goods workings and basic information of their main purposes - there was a manure train that ran on the ECML, something worse than the smell of fish?!

It might sound OTT or boring to some but, if I'm going to model a prototypical location, I really should try and model some prototypical formations and workings.

Next I need to source an ECML Carriage Working Book to get some information on the trains that fell out of the remit of the GN Section.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: belstone on June 05, 2019, 11:14:28 PM

It might sound OTT or boring to some but, if I'm going to model a prototypical location, I really should try and model some prototypical formations and workings.


Agree 100%.  I have taken to reading the Waverley Route WTT in the bath, trying to get a feel for traffic flows and patterns.  All covered by Rule One: it's my railway and I can run a carefully researched, authentic sequence of trains if I like.

Richard
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on June 06, 2019, 12:21:37 AM
Agree 100%.  I have taken to reading the Waverley Route WTT in the bath, trying to get a feel for traffic flows and patterns.  All covered by Rule One: it's my railway and I can run a carefully researched, authentic sequence of trains if I like.

Richard

Hi Richard,

I'm glad I'm not facing the insanity alone!  :smiley-laughing:

Trying to piece together what was happening 80-87 years ago is actually quite fascinating and it has certainly changed some of the perceptions I'd created in my own mind. That said, Hadley Wood will always be a bit of a compromise, I haven't got room to store a 80 to 100 wagon coal train (around 40 will be the limit), I can only represent (at best) 5% or the workings and my choice to model a fairly wide period of time means that not all the stock changes over the years can be represented

That said, the Carriage Working Books were produced on a best endeavours basis. If a certain carriage was unavailable, it was replaced with the closest equivalent type in the carriage sidings. This could lead at times to a formation looking quite different from the official description and if you throw in a few strengthened coaches, you'd be hard pressed to identified a train in photos using the official records.

I know I've said it before, but I can't believe just how few LNER built carriages were in service on express turns. I want to model one of the Hull-King's Cross expresses complete with its clerestory third, a twelve wheel pantry third (working as a support vehicle for a first class restaurant car) and the various lengths of ex-GNR stock that made up the majority of the train.

I also can't believe that I've only found a few services which had buffet cars in them (none using the type produced by Dapol). Apparently buffet expresses weren't not that common on the GN section and full restaurant cars were the norm. I'm yet to find any passenger formation that can be accurately represented by only using RTR offerings.

I've barely even touch on goods trains yet...

Not for everyone, but I would like to try and recreate a pieces of history as accuracy as the limitations of the layout allow. Not everyone's cup of tea, I know - it's a hobby after all and the only rule is that we have fun, regardless what we do.  :)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: belstone on June 06, 2019, 07:45:00 AM
I have thought about building a 1930s layout but I have to admit the research required is daunting.  Late fifties onwards is much easier, just because there were so many people photographing railways by then. But once you choose a specific prototype and period you are going to run up against problems like the ones you describe with coaching stock.  I recently found out that the daily St Pancras - Edinburgh  "Waverley" express had a Stanier twelve-wheeler kitchen car in the formation which lasted into the early diesel era. It sticks out like a sore thumb in photos.  How to build such a thing, then paint and letter it so that it doesn't look out of place in a rake of Farish maroon Mk1s?

The LNER was famously poor and it sounds as though they made their coaching stock last a long time.  I suspect you might have quite a lot of scratchbuilding ahead of you.  At least I only have one coach to build.

Richard

Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Newportnobby on June 06, 2019, 09:47:18 AM
@Atso (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=213)
@belstone (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=2569)

I would heartily recommend this DVD to you both although the north east and eastern railways form only a part of the footage (which is excellent, by the way). You are both more educated than I on coach types so would get more from this than me............

https://www.videoscene.co.uk/steam-on-35mm-the-30s-40s-50s-and-60s (https://www.videoscene.co.uk/steam-on-35mm-the-30s-40s-50s-and-60s)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on June 06, 2019, 10:12:34 AM
@Atso (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=213)
@belstone (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=2569)

I would heartily recommend this DVD to you both although the north east and eastern railways form only a part of the footage (which is excellent, by the way). You are both more educated than I on coach types so would get more from this than me............

https://www.videoscene.co.uk/steam-on-35mm-the-30s-40s-50s-and-60s (https://www.videoscene.co.uk/steam-on-35mm-the-30s-40s-50s-and-60s)

Thanks for that Mick, I'll certainly be looking to get hold of a copy!
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on June 06, 2019, 10:43:40 AM
Hi Richard,

I think that any research is daunting but once you’ve found that first bit of information, more follows (although not everything). When I first started looking into this, I couldn’t believe just how much information was out there – the shear volume of it all became very daunting!

Regarding photographs of the grouping period, I’ve found quite a few images online that cover Hadley Wood or the surrounding area. I’ve also got the three volumes of the LNER Albums and a lot of other books I’ve picked up over the years. 1930’s photographs are actually quite common, however there was a tendency to ignore photographing the mundane (although they are there, if not in the same quantity).

Your Stanier twelve-wheel kitchen car sounds very interesting and I’m not surprised to read that it was included in a rake of MK1s. My understanding this that the early MK catering vehicles were a bit disappointing in their riding qualities and grouping designs were initially preferred. Certainly on the Eastern Region, Gresley catering vehicles continued to be used for some time; hence their being several 61’6” Buffet Cars in preservation.

Building coaches: Having experimented with 3D printing coaches, I’ve decided to design and etch these as (1) an long, open box, tends to warp, (2) I can’t realistically print longer than a scale 56” and (3) I can make the glazing sit prototypically flush. Having seen what you are capable off, I have no doubt that you will be able to make a model that will more than hold its own again some Farish MK1s.

The LNER was always the poorest of the “Big Four” and tended to replace only when necessary (unless it was a prestigious train) and cascade the displaced stock into lesser services. That said, I’ve now found an example of a couple of six-wheel thirds being marshalled into a formation running under express lights. While my choice does mean that I’ll have to build most of the stock (and locos!) myself and that makes this a long term project, the number of variations possible really do appeal to me.

Edit: I've just had a look at the LMS dining cars in my copy of Historic Carriage Drawings (Vol 2). While to the Period 2 flush sided design, they do have some interesting features (such as the ventilators) that would be best reproduced using an etch. Be glad you're not painting it in the first LMS livery - lining beading is relatively straightforward (if time consuming), lining that panel style onto a flush sided coach!  :goggleeyes: :goggleeyes:
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on June 07, 2019, 12:03:22 AM
I think you will enjoy this one:
https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=45525.msg572208#msg572208 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=45525.msg572208#msg572208)
Old video of King's Cross and a4 Silver Fox in action...
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on June 07, 2019, 06:41:16 AM
I think you will enjoy this one:
https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=45525.msg572208#msg572208 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=45525.msg572208#msg572208)
Old video of King's Cross and a4 Silver Fox in action...

Thanks Darrwest, it is a very interesting film about the post war express. Some lovely interior shots of the buffet and dining cars.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on June 07, 2019, 02:57:42 PM
Happy Birthday Steve, by the way. As well as the timetables, did anyone get you another A4 to add to the collection?  ;)

PS - Here's a little something on track building for your next coffee break!
https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=45532.msg572328#msg572328 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=45532.msg572328#msg572328)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Stevie DC (formerly Atso) on June 07, 2019, 04:57:45 PM
Happy Birthday Steve, by the way. As well as the timetables, did anyone get you another A4 to add to the collection?  ;)

PS - Here's a little something on track building for your next coffee break!
https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=45532.msg572328#msg572328 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=45532.msg572328#msg572328)

Thank you!  :D

No A4s yesterday I'm afraid. I did get a 4F though (which will be used as a donor for another N2 eventually!). I also got drawings for various GNR and LNER carriages which will be put to good use when I have the time design some etches!

The track film is great! I'm glad I don't have to go through all of that to make up a crossing "v"!  ;D

A video for you of the Silver Jubilee express in the 1930's. The is even a scene shot at Hadley Wood at 1:53!  :claphappy:

https://www.huntleyarchives.com/preview.asp?image=1019580&itemw=4&itemf=0001&itemstep=1&itemx=41 (https://www.huntleyarchives.com/preview.asp?image=1019580&itemw=4&itemf=0001&itemstep=1&itemx=41)
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on June 08, 2019, 10:04:18 AM
Glad you enjoyed it! And thank you for the film clip too. It was also interesting the see the special coaching stock it pulled - looked fantastic.

I found a great article on Wiki about this train from The Engineer September 1937 - attached.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: crewearpley40 on June 08, 2019, 10:22:32 AM
giving me something to read later whilst stuck waiting for the return train home- thanks for posting.
Title: Re: Hadley Wood
Post by: Train Waiting on June 10, 2019, 08:44:51 PM
That is a fascinating film, Steve.

It must be one of the first colour films of a British railway scene.

Many thanks for posting the link.

Best wishes.

John