N Gauge Forum

General Category => Welcome and Introduction => Topic started by: Granite on February 21, 2020, 07:49:10 PM

Title: Greetings!
Post by: Granite on February 21, 2020, 07:49:10 PM
Hi All,

My name is Colin and I have just joined NGF in the hope that i can pick some advice and tips as i enter into my very first N gauge layout.

As i close on my 50th season, I have for most of my life, been a modeller and a maker of "things", to some degree quite successfully ( a story for later )

For the last few years i have been quite busy with life, as im sure you will all relate, but i find myself with a little time and I am keen to build a new project that i can pour my creative bent into.

As it happens i have a few rail modellers at work and my friend and colleague Chris has been building a beautiful Z scale layout which has recently graced the pages of Continental Modeller, this in turn has inspired me and along with Chris's encouragement to finally take a the plunge... well, that along with a weak moment at the CMRA Model Railway Exhibition in Stevenage that saw me walk away with a brace of very shiny class 47's

Ive opted for a 8' x 4' layout as a maximum due to space limitations and ideas are already forming along with a homemade helix.

The build will be unconventional im sure, so i apologise in advance if I make anyones teeth itch   ;)

So, thats my introduction, the weekend is upon us and i have a railway that needs building, but i look forward to chatting and picking your brains.

Cheers!

Colin



Title: Re: Greetings!
Post by: Invicta Alec on February 21, 2020, 07:52:25 PM
Welcome to the forum Colin.

Much wisdom lies herein.

Alec.
Title: Re: Greetings!
Post by: dannyboy on February 21, 2020, 07:55:47 PM
Hi Colin and welcome to the forum. Plenty of talented and knowledgeable brains on 'ere, so when you are ready, pick away.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Greetings!
Post by: RailGooner on February 21, 2020, 08:18:05 PM
Welcome aboard Colin! :wave:
Title: Re: Greetings!
Post by: Bob Tidbury on February 21, 2020, 08:25:06 PM
 :welcomesign:  Granite Aís has been said before we have lots of really expert Modellers on here and a few average ones like me ,But donít be afraid to ask any questions we all had to start somewhere and had to ask others for help .
Bob Tidbury
Title: Re: Greetings!
Post by: Train Waiting on February 21, 2020, 10:02:40 PM
Welcome aboard, Colin.

Best wishes.

John
Title: Re: Greetings!
Post by: Bealman on February 21, 2020, 10:51:36 PM
G'day from Australia, Colin, and welcome to the NGF!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Greetings!
Post by: Ditape on February 21, 2020, 11:42:36 PM
 :hellosign: :welcomesign:
Title: Re: Greetings!
Post by: port perran on February 22, 2020, 06:42:09 AM
Welcome aboard
Title: Re: Greetings!
Post by: Fenrisian on February 22, 2020, 08:08:00 AM
Hi Colin
 Welcome to the forum

Pete
Title: Re: Greetings!
Post by: Granite on February 22, 2020, 08:43:22 AM
Hi Folks!

Thanks for the very warm welcome  :thumbsup:

 :thankyousign:
Title: Re: Greetings!
Post by: Newportnobby on February 22, 2020, 01:08:44 PM
Hi Colin :wave:
You have been assimilated into the 'collective' - well done, that man :)
Title: Re: Greetings!
Post by: Ted on February 22, 2020, 03:46:42 PM
Did someone say helix?

I'm going to cheat and buy a kit.

Welcome to the forum!
Title: Re: Greetings!
Post by: dannyboy on February 22, 2020, 03:48:25 PM
Hi Colin :wave:
You have been assimilated into the 'collective' - well done, that man :)

Next stage - addict!
Title: Re: Greetings!
Post by: Tank on February 26, 2020, 04:05:53 PM
Welcome to the forum Colin.  :)
Title: Re: Greetings!
Post by: Granite on February 26, 2020, 08:55:00 PM
Did someone say helix?

I'm going to cheat and buy a kit.

Welcome to the forum!

I need to start a build thread, but the Helix is coming along quite nicely 😎

Title: Re: Greetings!
Post by: Ted on February 26, 2020, 09:01:08 PM
Looking good, what's the height between levels and what radius did you use?
Title: Re: Greetings!
Post by: Granite on February 26, 2020, 09:08:23 PM
Space is always going to be a constraint so I had to keep it tight, so Iíve used 1st and 2nd radius set track, so have a diameter of about 600mm with a 45mm lift on each circle.

Iím running analogue for the moment but the loco pulls a rake of six carriages without breaking a sweat so Iím confident that the helix will work for what I need 😁
Title: Re: Greetings!
Post by: Ted on February 26, 2020, 09:13:58 PM
Space is always going to be a constraint so I had to keep it tight, so Iíve used 1st and 2nd radius set track, so have a diameter of about 600mm with a 45mm lift on each circle.

Iím running analogue for the moment but the loco pulls a rake of six carriages without breaking a sweat so Iím confident that the helix will work for what I need 😁

I'm not 100% sure of the maths but I think a 1st radius at 45mm would put you around 2.5% gradient.

To play it safe I'm going for 2nd degree and <2%, but I want to run loooong freight of 20+ wagons.

Have you tested your carriages on that 1st degree to make sure they're happy and don't kick each other off?
Title: Re: Greetings!
Post by: Granite on February 26, 2020, 09:35:45 PM
Yeah, itís as tight as you would want it, but I have good ascent and decent speeds in both directions without any derailments 👍
Title: Re: Greetings!
Post by: Newportnobby on February 26, 2020, 09:47:16 PM
I wouldn't fancy being the driver as I got quite queasy just watching it!
Hope you don't run any buffet/restaurant carriages :no: :sick2: ;)
Title: Re: Greetings!
Post by: Granite on February 26, 2020, 09:49:56 PM
Haha, yeah, a pretty good chance youíll lose your soup, probably in more than one way 🤢
Title: Re: Greetings!
Post by: Merrylee on March 01, 2020, 09:48:01 AM
Like the idea of the male / female hex stand-offs / pillars to support it rather than the screwed rod and loads of nuts and washers.

Ron
Title: Re: Greetings!
Post by: Granite on March 01, 2020, 11:50:34 AM
Like the idea of the male / female hex stand-offs / pillars to support it rather than the screwed rod and loads of nuts and washers.

Ron

Hi Ron,

I used 25mm long M5 grub screws too, they were cheap as chips and you dont have to spend an age threading nuts up and down every time you assembled and disassembled it.

Title: Re: Greetings!
Post by: impinabox on March 06, 2020, 06:06:10 PM
Will you be running any steam locos up the helix or are you all diesel?  I've had problems with a Graham Farish Hall Class and an old Mallard where I found that 2.5% was about the point where they ground to a halt with just 4 coaches.  A Fairburn Tank and Class 108 DMU had no problems tho.
Title: Re: Greetings!
Post by: Newportnobby on March 06, 2020, 09:17:06 PM
As has been said the radius of the curves in the helix could have a huge bearing on what gradient can be OK. Any curve on a gradient has an effect
Title: Re: Greetings!
Post by: Granite on March 07, 2020, 12:59:19 PM
As has been said the radius of the curves in the helix could have a huge bearing on what gradient can be OK. Any curve on a gradient has an effect
Will you be running any steam locos up the helix or are you all diesel?  I've had problems with a Graham Farish Hall Class and an old Mallard where I found that 2.5% was about the point where they ground to a halt with just 4 coaches.  A Fairburn Tank and Class 108 DMU had no problems tho.

It is true that there are a million variables to how well the helix functions in my limited experience, for example i have a little class 08 that use as a sacrifical test loco ( just in case i get a little over zealous and lanuch a brand new 57 off the end of the track ) and that can struggle a little under loading going up the helix.

If i consider the differences between the class 57 and the class 08, it does start to paint a more interesting picture.

The Class 08 is an older loco with a five pole motor, technically a single set of driving wheels and very short wheelbase and quite light, all these things have proven that wheel slip is not uncommon.

The Class 57 on the other hand is brand new, has a much smother power delivery with its modern electric motor, there are two bogies driving 6 wheels each, the logo is considerably longer and nearly twice the weight, and the difference is chalk and cheese with the loco pulling a rake of 10 MK1 carriages uphill without much effort.

Steam loco's, im guessing, again in my limited experience would suffer the same issues as the little class 08, in that the driving sets of wheels are technically packed close together even the the loco and tender are quite long, so all the driving power is being applied to the rails in quite a small footprint. Do tenders drive also?

With that all being said  ( and again i could be wrong as these are my own personal observations ) i seriously intend to have some steam loco's on the layout. I love newer trains but to have a steam loco or two is an opportunity not to be missed.

I really do need to start a build thread...

Cheers!

Colin
Title: Re: Greetings!
Post by: Newportnobby on March 07, 2020, 04:07:08 PM

Steam loco's, im guessing, again in my limited experience would suffer the same issues as the little class 08, in that the driving sets of wheels are technically packed close together even the the loco and tender are quite long, so all the driving power is being applied to the rails in quite a small footprint. Do tenders drive also?

With that all being said  ( and again i could be wrong as these are my own personal observations ) i seriously intend to have some steam loco's on the layout. I love newer trains but to have a steam loco or two is an opportunity not to be missed.


Steam locos tend to have larger driving wheels than more modern motive power and some have traction tyres fitted to loco and/or tender for added haulage power, and the motor is either in the loco body or the tender (not both). When you have decided on which steam loco just ask the collective for confirmation of configuration.
Title: Re: Greetings!
Post by: Granite on March 07, 2020, 05:16:36 PM

Steam loco's, im guessing, again in my limited experience would suffer the same issues as the little class 08, in that the driving sets of wheels are technically packed close together even the the loco and tender are quite long, so all the driving power is being applied to the rails in quite a small footprint. Do tenders drive also?

With that all being said  ( and again i could be wrong as these are my own personal observations ) i seriously intend to have some steam loco's on the layout. I love newer trains but to have a steam loco or two is an opportunity not to be missed.




Steam locos tend to have larger driving wheels than more modern motive power and some have traction tyres fitted to loco and/or tender for added haulage power, and the motor is either in the loco body or the tender (not both). When you have decided on which steam loco just ask the collective for confirmation of configuration.

I knew there would be things that i hadn't even contemplated, traction tyres, eh? Thats worth a google  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Greetings!
Post by: Bealman on March 07, 2020, 11:40:58 PM
I find traction tyres a mixed blessing. If a loco throws one, it's a curse. The old Minitrix large steamers had them, and removing all the motion rods and linkages to replace them is the stuff nightmares are made of.
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