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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Madann01 on January 20, 2020, 07:37:38 PM

Title: Demise of the franchise
Post by: Madann01 on January 20, 2020, 07:37:38 PM
What a lovely sunny, crisp winters day yesterday was, Made all the better in that I was able to go fishing, (my other expensive  pastime) The lake I was fishing is situated adjacent to the West Coast Mainline and I have spent many an hour over the years watching the trains go by whilst dangling a maggot.
 As the day progressed I became more and more saddened watching a never ending procession of Pendelinos' stripped bare of their once distinctive Virgin livery, The sadness became even deeper when out of the blue I looked up to see a Pendelino flash by sporting what appeared to be the new Avanti livery, I say 'appeared to be' as it didn't stand out much from the couple of hundred yards away i was sitting, unlike the vivid unmistakable colours of the Virgin Livery. I'm sure that they will look impressive up close, but are very plain in appearance  from a distance.
 I was looking to purchase a couple of Pendelinos' next time around, but I will envy those lucky enough to have brought the original livery models which in my eyes will always be synonymous with a Pendelino. :( :thumbsdown:
 
Title: Re: Demise of the franchise
Post by: robert shrives on January 20, 2020, 08:00:54 PM
Hi ,
Surely not Arriva - Trenitalia . Avanti or the WCML as we know it now run in part by The Italian State railway.

Livery of white - that well known practical railway colour a specification from the Department of fuzzy thinking ( DfT) the faint red  triangle Denoting an idealised map of Euston. Glasgow and Liverpool ( generic North west or Midlands) is the only giveaway.  But it does mean when the inevitable hand back of the franchise happens it is less messy for the Direct operation to change image.

Current legal proceedings means it could all go south anyway .
  www.railnews.co.uk/news/2020/01/20-rejected-franchise-claims-move-to.html (http://www.railnews.co.uk/news/2020/01/20-rejected-franchise-claims-move-to.html)

Robert
Title: Re: Demise of the franchise
Post by: crewearpley40 on January 20, 2020, 08:13:02 PM
Was it a transport for wales service that used a turquoise paint scheme in the w Midlands you saw?
Title: Re: Demise of the franchise
Post by: Madann01 on January 20, 2020, 08:20:10 PM
 Sorry for the mistake, Just shows how much the branding has impacted on me, have edited original post
Hi ,
Surely not Arriva - Trenitalia . Avanti or the WCML as we know it now run in part by The Italian State railway.

Livery of white - that well known practical railway colour a specification from the Department of fuzzy thinking ( DfT) the faint red  triangle Denoting an idealised map of Euston. Glasgow and Liverpool ( generic North west or Midlands) is the only giveaway.  But it does mean when the inevitable hand back of the franchise happens it is less messy for the Direct operation to change image.

Current legal proceedings means it could all go south anyway .
  [url=http://www.railnews.co.uk/news/2020/01/20-rejected-franchise-claims-move-to.html]www.railnews.co.uk/news/2020/01/20-rejected-franchise-claims-move-to.html[/url] ([url]http://www.railnews.co.uk/news/2020/01/20-rejected-franchise-claims-move-to.html[/url])

Robert
Title: Re: Demise of the franchise
Post by: Madann01 on January 20, 2020, 08:43:17 PM
Was it a transport for wales service that used a turquoise paint scheme in the w Midlands you saw?

Quite right, have seen many Arriva turquoise trains in the West Midlands area in the past, but noticed something a couple of weeks ago whilst travelling by train into Birmingham, A Red and White liveried Transport for Wales train stopped at Birmingham International  Station, Is this another livery change?
Must be a nightmare for manufacturers trying to keep up with the changes :hmmm:
Title: Re: Demise of the franchise
Post by: crewearpley40 on January 20, 2020, 08:49:32 PM
Since october 2019 due to arriva franchise being taken over by the two funded by the Welsh government etc red and white livery representing 2 countries probably brum international to Wrexham chester via Shrewsbury with a portion leaving Shrewsbury for the cambrian lines
Title: Re: Demise of the franchise
Post by: captainelectra on January 20, 2020, 11:13:58 PM
It's not looking good for franchising at the moment with several companies in the mire:

Arriva Northern - government to review franchise

South Western Railway - ditto

ScotRail - Abbelio to lose franchise early

West Midlands Railway - also under government review

LNER - already under government control

East Midlands Railways / Avanti West Coast - Stagecoach considering legal action against DfT

Have I missed any?
Title: Re: Demise of the franchise
Post by: railsquid on January 20, 2020, 11:41:12 PM
I must admit I'm glad I have no interest in the British railway scene after ca. 1991, it's all very confusing  :o
Title: Re: Demise of the franchise
Post by: Bealman on January 20, 2020, 11:44:34 PM
Yes, I must admit after reading all this, it seems to be a bit of a dog's dinner at the moment!  :confused1:
Title: Re: Demise of the franchise
Post by: Madann01 on January 21, 2020, 03:35:12 AM
perhaps  the answer for us modelers who would like to keep up to date as much as possible, is to ask the manufacturers to produce 'Gender or franchise neutral ' models. That way a model loco may not look out of place on a layout in five years time, indeed I can't see the existing real train stock changing much in the next twenty or so years, so possibly will see me out. :D
 
 Hey how about a run of Pendos' with a NGF designed livery (NGF flyers) just a thought. :drool: :hmmm: :Class91:
Title: Re: Demise of the franchise
Post by: exmouthcraig on January 21, 2020, 06:56:08 AM
It would seem theres a market here for someone to produce a model specific  vinyl wrap for the current stock on the network.

Then, like every time a franchise changes, assuming that the manufacturer of the vinyl has the correct agreements with said train operators to produce such, the modeller could then simply vinyl their own stock to match reality.

 :hmmm: if only there was such a person on this forum  :P





This is very obviously tongue in cheek and once The Captain @captainelectra (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=9) is settled after his house move round the corner  :-[ who knows what he will be planning on producing
Title: Re: Demise of the franchise
Post by: Bigmac on January 21, 2020, 08:11:56 AM
I must admit I'm glad I have no interest in the British railway scene after ca. 1991, it's all very confusing  :o

i have no interest in the post steam era. i think blue diesels looked awful.
Title: Re: Demise of the franchise
Post by: Bealman on January 21, 2020, 09:47:30 AM
Well I guess you won't be waiting up for the new vinyls then  ;)
Title: Re: Demise of the franchise
Post by: Madann01 on January 21, 2020, 10:06:05 AM
I must admit I'm glad I have no interest in the British railway scene after ca. 1991, it's all very confusing  :o

i have no interest in the post steam era. i think blue diesels looked awful.
Without trying to re-open any debate between modellers of the steam era and those who prefer modern day,. It must be nice to build a layout set in a fixed time period, and i really do admire those who do spend the time researching and recreating the past and knowing exactly the locos and stock that were running on that particular line, kudos to you all  :thumbsup:
  However I was born into a time when steam was in rapid decline, and them blue diesels ugly or not, were part of my growing up, i too have no interest in modelling that era and I would like to be able to run trains as up to date as possible. Without any solid research I think the closest i  can get to achieving this goal is around 3-5 years behind, given the readily available models on sale currently.   
Title: Re: Demise of the franchise
Post by: captainelectra on January 21, 2020, 10:47:11 AM
I see a lot of modern layouts operating a mix and match collection of franchises and liveries that ddin't always exist at the same time. A lot of this is dictated by what's available RTR. Certain manufacturers are several years behind real events, so many models are obsolete before they even appear. The Bachmann TransPennine 350 and SWT 450s are prime examples. Guess the grim reality of getting production slots in China is taking it's toll.

Hornby seem to be doing a better job in OO, announcing an Avanti Pendolino for later this year. I'm sure there are smaller and leaner manufacturers who can beat that.
Title: Re: Demise of the franchise
Post by: railsquid on January 21, 2020, 11:32:45 AM
I must admit I'm glad I have no interest in the British railway scene after ca. 1991, it's all very confusing  :o

i have no interest in the post steam era. i think blue diesels looked awful.
Without trying to re-open any debate between modellers of the steam era and those who prefer modern day,. It must be nice to build a layout set in a fixed time period, and i really do admire those who do spend the time researching and recreating the past and knowing exactly the locos and stock that were running on that particular line, kudos to you all  :thumbsup:
  However I was born into a time when steam was in rapid decline, and them blue diesels ugly or not, were part of my growing up, i too have no interest in modelling that era and I would like to be able to run trains as up to date as possible. Without any solid research I think the closest i  can get to achieving this goal is around 3-5 years behind, given the readily available models on sale currently.

My comment was meant not in the sense that "era X is better than era Y". It seems any given era is difficult to "get right" at the best of times, and the "franchise era" seems to be very extreme in terms of operators and liveries chopping and changing about (seems one week it's all "Connex Great Southern Arrivelio", next week nationalised "GWSR" then the week after "DB Schenker Wessex") which must be an absolute nightmare for manufacturers and modellers alike to try and keep up with. So as my interest in and exposure to the UK railway scene fell away very rapidly around 1991, speaking entirely personally I'm relieved I have no temptation in that direction. But best of luck to everyone, whatever their preferences may be  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Demise of the franchise
Post by: red_death on January 21, 2020, 11:38:23 AM
Model manufacturers are always likely to be behind the real railway for the simple reason that they have to wait for the new designs to be designed, approved, then get agreement to produce them and then design the model artwork, get sample(s) approved and then get it into production - even if you have an empty factory doing nothing that could easily take at least 6 months and conceivably much longer!

Cheers Mike
Title: Re: Demise of the franchise
Post by: crewearpley40 on January 21, 2020, 11:40:54 AM
Would agree with newportnobby and railsquid.i just struggled to keep up to date and take my hat off to those who model whatever are suits them. I'm a 70s / 80s modeller. But love the green, maroon, crimson / cream etc of the transition period. Today despite working on the railways, I have little interest in ever updating liveries some of which look awful but that's only my opinion
 
Title: Re: Demise of the franchise
Post by: Madann01 on January 21, 2020, 12:11:24 PM
Model manufacturers are always likely to be behind the real railway for the simple reason that they have to wait for the new designs to be designed, approved, then get agreement to produce them and then design the model artwork, get sample(s) approved and then get it into production - even if you have an empty factory doing nothing that could easily take at least 6 months and conceivably much longer!

Cheers Mike
Would agree with newportnobby and railsquid.i just struggled to keep up to date and take my hat off to those who model whatever are suits them. I'm a 70s / 80s modeller. But love the green, maroon, crimson / cream etc of the transition period. Today despite working on the railways, I have little interest in ever updating liveries some of which look awful but that's only my opinion
 
  I refer to an earlier post to suggesting some sort of neutral liveries, be made available, that way the life time of the model will far outweigh the many changes to the liveries that will inevitably occur to the stock during their lifetime of service. HST prime example 40+ years of service with many liveries, and still going and nor looking dated.
 Hats off to Hornby for striking whilst the iron is hot :admiration:
Title: Re: Demise of the franchise
Post by: red_death on January 21, 2020, 01:34:12 PM
  I refer to an earlier post to suggesting some sort of neutral liveries, be made available, that way the life time of the model will far outweigh the many changes to the liveries that will inevitably occur to the stock during their lifetime of service.

I'm not sure what you mean about neutral liveries?

Hornby aren't producing neutral liveries - they are producing their Pendolino in the new livery (which wasn't finalised until very shortly before the franchise started!). We delayed the second run of Pendolinos for precisely this reason ie that we knew there was a new livery coming along and it is better to be able to offer the new livery when we can arrange a production slot.

Cheers Mike
Title: Re: Demise of the franchise
Post by: Madann01 on January 21, 2020, 02:01:09 PM
Please Mike, i mean no criticism of what you are achieving and indeed have achieved, indeed I am eagerly awaiting  the chance to purchase a  of Pendelinos' When the time comes regardless of livery, A neutral livery without any franchising would help insure that any future change in livery would not date the model and would look in keeping for years to come.
. My comments regarding Hornby striking whist the iron is hot relates to them getting  models sold whilst the livery is current as there is always the danger of  the franchise being changed again in a few years time given the current climate surrounding franchising in general,
 it must be a real headache  for you in planming for the future.

Regards
Mark
Title: Re: Demise of the franchise
Post by: themadhippy on January 21, 2020, 02:09:03 PM
what we need is an ultra thin lcd display wrap  instead of vinyl,dial in the livery you want,however not sure if the lcd refresh rate could keep up with the rate franchises seem change
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